1st ever yeast starter - problems?

[eelgerg]

So, I am currently trying my very first yeast starter, and apparently this is going to be harder than I thought.

Going to brew a 10-gal batch of Orfy's Mild Mannered Ale and split the batch into two 5-gal batches for fermentation - one using good olde S-04 and one in more of a Christmas ale with WLP028 Edinburgh Ale yeast.

The challenge here is that the WLP028 has a best before date of May 28, 2015. I read up and many in this forum suggest it may take several days to wake up the yeast, which was stored in my food fridge the whole time.

So on Saturday afternoon I started making my starter. 1.5 L of light DME (158 g) at around 1.040 (???). Boiled, cooled to room temp, and then pitched the warm yeast, which admittedly was only at room temp for about an hour (and in my pants pockets for 30 mins).

So it's been stirring for 48 hours and I can't tell if the yeast are growing or not. Plan to let it go for another 48 hours, but how can I tell if it has worked? I know my viability is really low to begin with so I might not grow much yeast.

Pic of the plate on day 1 in action
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447739243.100742.jpg

Pic of the plate after being off for 30 mins - lighter colour, and some yeast on the bottom
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447739296.954322.jpg

Can anyone help me to know if and when this is done? Is the yeast in the bottom more than one would expect that I dumped into the flask from the white labs vial?

Should I try to step it up again? Ie make another 1.5 L starter?

Thanks in advance.

 

[parrothead64]

The lighter color is a good sign. You need to either step up or put them to sleep in the refrigerator. After 18-24 hours the starter is done. If you leave them on there too long it starts to stress them out because they are active and out of food. After 2.5 days your probably still OK but I wouldn't leave them on there much longer. I use a pitch rate calculater in beer Smith. You could also go to Mr malty.com. you put in the date and it tells you how much is still viable and how big of a starter you need to get to the right pitch rate. I would see what it says before you decide if you need to step up or not. After a day in the refrigerator you will see a lot more yeast on the bottom. You can pour off most of the liquid,then swirl it around and pitch the slurry.

 

[thereverendmaynard]

Did you use one of the yeast pitch calculators? Given the age of that yeast I would probably have purchased new. If it were me i would do at least another step.

You can chill this to get the yeast to settle, then check the FG to see if they did their job.

According to what I have read, yeast effectiveness drops off by .7% per day from date of manufacture.

 

[UndeadFred]

I finally decided to stop "going ghetto" and I did starters and liquid yeast (I built my stir plate a year ago.. )... because.. I was brewing a Christmas ale and a brown ale... I really dislike S-04, which I used last year for these.. and well.. picked up WLP028, two months old from the LHBS... (1/2016 exp)...

Being a cheap skate I did a step starter on 1/2 of the vial in a 1L flask.. it took a couple of days to get going on step one. I did get to have plenty of cell count on step two for the 1.071 OG Brown ale.

I got fed up with the 1L flask and got a 2L.

The second batch I threw in the other half into 1.5L of 1.040 starter and was in a hurry.. 14 hours later I threw the actively like crazy going starter into a 1.052 OG Christmas ale as a "vitality starter" and it was okay..

Both brews seem kind of dead from airlock activity but the first one hit gravity and smells fine (I'll know in about 2 more weeks if it tastes good).

So.. All I can say is WLP028 was... kinds of weird to deal with. It goes fairly fast once it starts but it doesn't seem to blow off a lot of CO2.

I also recently decided as an experiment to culture Saison DuPont from a bottle and I was about to throw it our three days after I started.. decided, I was too tired.. didn't get back to it until two days after that and it was going like crazy.. so almost six days later.. That yeast has such a unique smell I knew it was the right stuff too..

So if your 028 has any live cells at all in it.. give it a couple of more days and it should work.. it's a slow yeast apparently anyway... but having said that, I would then cold crash, decant and do a second step starter just in case..

EDIT: After looking at your second picture.. I think you are okay. Cold crash it in the fridge for 24-48 hrs, decant, add another 1.3L or so of 1.040 starter and stir for 48 hrs and use or cold crash.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[eelgerg]

How do I tell if there are any live yeast in it without a microscope?!? I'm currently cold crashing it to try to decant it and do another step starter, but I also brewed my mild mannered ale today and just pitched it with S-04 x 2. If I'm able to step it up it may just have to wait until my next brew day.

Good to know that it is usually a slow yeast though.

 

[parrothead64]

The color changes because of fermentation. IT would.still be the same color if all the yeast were dead. Sometimes you can see krausen on the top after about 8-12 hours but it drops fast in a starter. You could take a gravity reading to find out for sure but there's always a chance of contamination when you pull the sample,so I never do in a starter.

 

[eelgerg]

The colour change to me was my first indication that some new yeast had grown. And I think that there is more cloudy stuff on the bottom compared to what I added.

I am going to chill, step up, and save the starter in a canning jar until next brew. Not worried if this goes to waste - it's been a good learning experience. But definitely will buy fresh and brew immediately next time.

 

[UndeadFred]

On the step up you should see either a lot of activity and or krausen. You will know for sure.

 

[JosephN]

I just did a double starter or what it seems like you guys are calling a step up, a couple weeks ago and the first step was just like yours but the second was way different. I started with about as much as is in a vial, and it was pretty old, but I'd have to say that it has to be one of the best starters I've pitched. Such a nice creamy krausen that pushed out the airlock. Also I learned that if I stuck a very small fan in the fridge blowing directly on the flask that the yeast will drop wayyyyy faster than 24-48 hrs. It only took 5 in mine.

 

[parrothead64]

Try it without an air lock. I use aluminium foil covering the flask during the boil. That way, you know everything in there is dead. After you cool it down,Shut off fans. Take the foil off the flask just long enough to put the yeast in. I hold it In one hand so it doesnt touch anything,also keep the side that was inside the flask facing down so nothing can land on it. The foil will allow oxygen in ,while keeping bugs out.