1st brew advice: Oktoberfest

[mizzourah2006]

I made the unfortunate decision of starting with an Oktoberfest lager for my first homebrew. I also did not read this forum before making it.

I used the brewer's best German Oktoberfest kit and only pitched one packet of dry yeast. The instructions said to just dump the yeast into the wort and stir vigorously. After reading this forum I realize I should have pitched 2 packets and should have made a starter.

It has been roughly 72 hours since I have placed the primary into a refrigerator. The temperature has been between 50-55 degrees. I finally broke down and opened the lid to see if there was any krausen forming after not seeing any bubbles in the airlock for 3 days. It looked exactly like the wort I placed into the bucket.

The recommended temp from the kit was 53-59. Should I go to my LHBS to get another packet of dry yeast and try to repitch or should I just wait it out?

 

[Surly]

This has happened to me as well. Although I did not underpitch, I did place my carboy into a frig. Coolness slows everything down.

Let is be for a bit I think you will be fine.

And while you wait, keep reading.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out,

 

[mizzourah2006]

This has happened to me as well. Although I did not underpitch, I did place my carboy into a frig. Coolness slows everything down.

Let is be for a bit I think you will be fine.

And while you wait, keep reading.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out,

thanks a lot. trying not to freak out, I have read that cold lagers can take 4 days to start fermenting, but thought I would see a little something after 3 days. I will definitely keep you updated.

Should I rock the primary at all? I have read sometimes that can help to activate the yeast.

I have been reading non-stop for the past 2 days, lol. I have already learned a ton that I will be using on my next try. This forum is a godsend, it's great that so many experienced people are so willing to help noobs out.

 

[flabyboy]

Same kit. Mine took 5 days to take of. Fermentation much more subtle too. Two packets is plenty. No starters needed with dry yeast

 

[Surly]

thanks a lot. trying not to freak out, I have read that cold lagers can take 4 days to start fermenting, but thought I would see a little something after 3 days. I will definitely keep you updated.

Should I rock the primary at all? I have read sometimes that can help to activate the yeast.

I have been reading non-stop for the past 2 days, lol. I have already learned a ton that I will be using on my next try. This forum is a godsend, it's great that so many experienced people are so willing to help noobs out.

Start small, enjoy the planning stage, don't purchase equipment twice. I can tell, you already have the addiction.

Personally, I don't shake carboys. Just wait it out IMHO.

 

[mizzourah2006]

Same kit. Mine took 5 days to take of. Fermentation much more subtle too. Two packets is plenty. No starters needed with dry yeast

I only had 1 packet with the kit. Should I go buy another packet?

 

[BigB]

What was the yeast you used? Was it just the unmarked packet that many companies include in their kits, or was it Saflager? Also, what size packet of yeast? If it was the 11.5 gram packet, that should be fine. Sure, ideally you would have thrown in two 11.5 gram packets of yeast and rehydrated them... but that just means you will have a longer lag time. Even with the one packet you should be fine. Also, lagers take longer to ferment than ales, so its not surprising to me at all that you don't see any krausen. Lagers are often much more subdued than ales. Also, 72 hours is nothing... likely the yeast are in the "lag phase" where they are preparing to do the job that lays ahead. The only way you can tell is to take a gravity reading anyways. Also, don't worry about not making a starter for dry yeast... most never do. But liquid yeast, I recommend to always do so. The temps you are running at are fine. Relax, if you really wanted to add another packet of yeast, you could, but I wouldn't panic yet.

 

[mizzourah2006]

What was the yeast you used? Was it just the unmarked packet that many companies include in their kits, or was it Saflager? Also, what size packet of yeast? If it was the 11.5 gram packet, that should be fine. Sure, ideally you would have thrown in two 11.5 gram packets of yeast and rehydrated them... but that just means you will have a longer lag time. Even with the one packet you should be fine. Also, lagers take longer to ferment than ales, so its not surprising to me at all that you don't see any krausen. Lagers are often much more subdued than ales. Also, 72 hours is nothing... likely the yeast are in the "lag phase" where they are preparing to do the job that lays ahead. The only way you can tell is to take a gravity reading anyways. Also, don't worry about not making a starter for dry yeast... most never do. But liquid yeast, I recommend to always do so. The temps you are running at are fine. Relax, if you really wanted to add another packet of yeast, you could, but I wouldn't panic yet.

thanks a lot. To be completely honest I didn't look at the packet of yeast, so I couldn't tell you what type of yeast it was. The directions just say 1 sachet of yeast. It was specified as a lager yeast though. It was also a little larger. I would be willing to bet it was at least 11.5 grams.

 

[hector]

The long lag phase is because you put the fermenter in the refrigerator just after pitching and shocked the yeast .

I would rehydrate and pitch the yeast when the wort temperature reaches 68 F after boiling , cooling and of course aeration .

Then I let the temperature drop about 5 Degrees per day until it reaches the ideal fermentation temperature and I keep it

there until the Hydrometer reads the same for 3 following days . Then I do the Diacetyl rest for 2 days .

Then I rack the Beer and let the temperature drop gradually for several days until it reaches the lagering temperature .

Hector

 

[flabyboy]

I only had 1 packet with the kit. Should I go buy another packet?

I only used one. I would pitch 2 next time

 

[mizzourah2006]

The long lag phase is because you put the fermenter in the refrigerator just after pitching and shocked the yeast .

I would rehydrate and pitch the yeast when the wort temperature reaches 68 F after boiling , cooling and of course aeration .

Then I let the temperature drop about 5 Degrees per day until it reaches the ideal fermentation temperature and I keep it

there until the Hydrometer reads the same for 3 following days . Then I do the Diacetyl rest for 2 days .

Then I rack the Beer and let the temperature drop gradually for several days until it reaches the lagering temperature .

Hector

I didn't pitch the yeast until the wort was 60 degrees and all the water I added to the wort was a little under 60 degrees, so I figured keeping it at 55 would not really shock the yeast, but from now on I will definitely use your method.

 

[flabyboy]

The long lag phase is because you put the fermenter in the refrigerator just after pitching and shocked the yeast .

I would rehydrate and pitch the yeast when the wort temperature reaches 68 F after boiling , cooling and of course aeration .

Then I let the temperature drop about 5 Degrees per day until it reaches the ideal fermentation temperature and I keep it

there until the Hydrometer reads the same for 3 following days . Then I do the Diacetyl rest for 2 days .

Then I rack the Beer and let the temperature drop gradually for several days until it reaches the lagering temperature .

Hector

I would have to disagree with this. You should just pitch at 50 degrees or so and leave it there until it's time for a diecetyl rest. If you start off warm, you are going to get some of the off flavors that come with fermenting lagers too warm. These flavors come very early in the fermentation stage. If tasted this particular kit fermented at 50 and at 65 degrees. Huge difference. The 50 degree batch was much cleaner and crisp like a lager should be

 

[BigB]

I would have to disagree with this. You should just pitch at 50 degrees or so and leave it there until it's time for a diecetyl rest. If you start off warm, you are going to get some of the off flavors that come with fermenting lagers too warm. These flavors come very early in the fermentation stage. If tasted this particular kit fermented at 50 and at 65 degrees. Huge difference. The 50 degree batch was much cleaner and crisp like a lager should be

I agree with this. Although Hector does present another school of thought on the subject. I agree with the line of thinking that if you pitch when the wort is warm and slowly ramp it down, then the yeast get the majority of the work done before you even get to the proper fermentation temps because it takes a long time to cool 5 gallons down - Therefore, your yeast aren't acting like lager yeast...more like ale yeast. Secondly, if you pitched dry yeast, I sincerely doubt you shocked it at all because it was already dormant.

 

[hector]

I would have to disagree with this. You should just pitch at 50 degrees or so and leave it there until it's time for a diecetyl rest.

I use Saflager dry yeast and "fermentis" recommends to rehydrate at around 23C before pitching and I think 68 F ( 20C ) is a good temperature for pitching , as far as the yeast wouldn't be shocked .

2 days of Diacetyl rest is enough for cleaning most of the off flavors .

This worked great for me .

Hector

 

[hector]

I agree with the line of thinking that if you pitch when the wort is warm and slowly ramp it down, then the yeast get the majority of the work done before you even get to the proper fermentation temps because it takes a long time to cool 5 gallons down

I brew 1-gallon-batches and it takes me 3 days to drop the temperature from 68F to 54F .

Hector

 

[BigB]

Yes, I agree Hector... but 1 gallon takes considerably less time to cool than 5 gallons. Don't get me wrong Hector... There is support for your theory just as there is support for my theory. I simply have concluded that my theory makes more sense to me... Like I said, you presented another school of thought... Are you right? Am I right? I don't know for sure. I'm just saying that in my opinion, the theory I prescribe to, makes more sense to me personally.

 

[jigidyjim]

Yes, I agree Hector... but 1 gallon takes considerably less time to cool than 5 gallons. Don't get me wrong Hector... There is support for your theory just as there is support for my theory. I simply have concluded that my theory makes more sense to me... Like I said, you presented another school of thought... Are you right? Am I right? I don't know for sure. I'm just saying that in my opinion, the theory I prescribe to, makes more sense to me personally.

FYI - from Wyeast's site: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_lagerbrewing.cfm
---
One of the most common questions we field is, “should I start my lager warm or cold?” The answer depends on how much time you have for your primary fermentation and how clean you want your final beer. The best results will be achieved by pitching at least 12 million cells per milliliter into cold and well aerated wort (48 to 58°F, 9 to 15°C).

If a faster primary fermentation is desired or you are pitching less yeast, then it is best to start a little bit warmer and then cool to the desired fermentation temperature once signs of fermentation are evident.
---

 

[hector]

FYI - from Wyeast's site: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_lagerbrewing.cfm

Thanks a lot for good Info !

Hector

 

[BigB]

FYI - from Wyeast's site: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_lagerbrewing.cfm
---

Yes, but Whitelabs does recognize Hector's point of view as well... thats why I said that I'm not sure who is right:

What temperature should I pitch a lager yeast?

There are two different methods of pitching lagers. Brewers use each method with success, but every brewer has their preference. The easiest method is (A).
A) Start the yeast warm and lower to 50-55F after the start of fermentation. The yeast should be pitched at 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Once you see active fermentation, bring the temperature of the wort down 10 degrees per 12 hours until the desired fermentation temperature has been achieved. This method works well without forming high amounts of esters because most esters are produced after the first 12 hours.
B) Pitch the yeast at the desired fermentation temperature (48-55 Degrees F). Lager yeast ferment well at this temperature, but they grow very slowly. If you are using this method, understand that you may not see signs of activity for 48-72 hours. If starting the fermentation cold, we recommend you make a 1-2 liter starter per 5 gallons, or if a commercial brewery, a starter 10% of the batch size.

 

[mizzourah2006]

Update: After not seeing any signs of fermentation for 8 days I broke down, opened the bucket and did a hydrometer reading. the gravity was around 1.014. So I took it out and am doing a 2 day diacytal rest like most of you have recommended. I can not believe I saw absolutely no signs of fermentation. No krausen, no airlock, etc.

I plan on lagering @ around 35-40 degrees for 4-5 weeks, the question is should I bother transferring to the secondary or should I just leave it in the primary?

I have seen it recommended to switch to secondary, but was wondering what everyone's opinion on the subject was. Thanks again everyone.

 

[h22lude]

Update: After not seeing any signs of fermentation for 8 days I broke down, opened the bucket and did a hydrometer reading. the gravity was around 1.014. So I took it out and am doing a 2 day diacytal rest like most of you have recommended. I can not believe I saw absolutely no signs of fermentation. No krausen, no airlock, etc.

I plan on lagering @ around 35-40 degrees for 4-5 weeks, the question is should I bother transferring to the secondary or should I just leave it in the primary?

I have seen it recommended to switch to secondary, but was wondering what everyone's opinion on the subject was. Thanks again everyone.

Perfect example of "Your airlock is not a hydrometer!" No bubbles doesn't mean no fermentation.

As for pitching cold and warm, I have heard both ways just like you said. I would actually use both ways depending on the situation. Pitching yeast from a vial or packet (no starter) I would start warm to get it going and slowly cool down to temp. Pitching with a starter or a couple packets of dry yeast I would pitch colder. Underpitching yeast when it is colder might take a very long time to get started if it starts at all.

 

[johnheather125]

I to Brewed this recently only I fermented at ale temps. So far Every thing has been fine SG is down to 1.018 and ready to bottle tastes geart just a little sweet though