1st AG - stuck fermentation and off taste

[red999]

So on 12/6 I tried my attempt at all grain. Everything went great, hit my gravity of 1.057 (sample tasted fine) and pitched yeast at around 75F. Fermentation went quick. I had very active bubbling within 12 hours but I never actually saw a krausen. I saw what looked like the remnants of one on the side of the carboy but that was about it.

Last week I checked the gravity and it was at 1.030 and the sample had a weird after taste. Almost tasted like PBR. Thought maybe it got too cold where I was keeping the beer so I moved it upstairs (shaking it in the process), and let it warm up a little. Had some bubbling in the airlock and when I checked the gravity today (12/23) its still reading 1.030 with the same after taste.

Here is the recipe

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: smithwicks style clone
Brewer: Sean Macomber
Asst Brewer:
Style: Irish Red Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 16.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.50 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 82.93 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9.76 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.44 %
0.66 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) (FiHops 12.6 IBU
0.66 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
0.25 oz Williamette [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 12.81 qt of water at 181.7 F 158.0 F


Notes:
------
Batch sparged 2.345 gallons each sparge at 168



Also I didn't rehydrate the yeast, I just pitched. I had success with that before and figured to keep doing what works. So any ideas?

I'm thinking I'm going to just pitch another packet of yeast to get it going again.

 

[Bobby_M]

You wanted to mash at 158 but it's really on the borderline of unfermentable disaster which you can easily cross with a slightly "off" thermometer. Are you absolutely sure your thermo is calibrated? You might have mashed at 161F and 1.030 is the best any yeast will do with it.

 

[red999]

I feel like the thermometer is accurate but I never tried to calibrate, I just assumed it was good. It read accurately on a boil.

So really I should have mashed lower, like 154F?

 

[vtbeerman]

If you think the thermometer is off a little it would be safer to mash a little lower just to be safe. Otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of unfermentables that make your OG look fine but won't attenuate down. That might be the problem. 152F-154F would have been fine.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sometimes thermometers that check out at 212ish at boiling will still be off a degree or two in the midrange where we need it to be accurate. While I'd agree that a Irish Red can be mashed pretty hot, erring on the side of cooler is safer. My range is usually 149 to 156F but I know my thermo is dead on.

 

[red999]

Thanks for the advice and info. I have one more quick question. Could the high mash also cause and off taste? A sampling of the beer before fermenting tasted fine, but after fermentation seemed to have stopped, the beer had a off smell and horrible after taste.

 

[GNBrews]

A nice way to calibrate your thermometer is to use ice water, boiling water, and water near 96-98F measured with a medical thermometer.

 

[Sun Devil]

My only off tasting beer was my first all grain beer. I believe it was due to the first high temp cycle that the mash tun and HLT tank had seen (mash tun is a 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler and HLT tank is a rectangular rubber maid ice chest). The batch tasted like hose water after primary and secondayr and had to be dumped, even after letting it sit around for a while. All my extract beers had been fine up to that point. I brewed all grain again a couple of weeks later and it was great, best beer up to that point actually, and have had no problems since. Might just be that your new equipment is becoming seasoned.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's hard to diagnose an off flavor without tasting it. Pitching at 75F is a little hot because once fermentation starts, it can only go up from there. One of the biggest improvements you can make is pitching a couple degrees colder than the overall ferment temp you're shooting for. My first all grain also tasted pretty bad, but that's where it ended. Good luck next time.

 

[KopyKat]

Two points covered above are probably big factors in your high finish gravity and off flavors.

1. Mash temp. I did an experiment once and posted of buying three "lab thermometers" from my LHBS. Every one had different readings at the same temps - a varience of 3 degrees. I spent $22.00 on a true laboratory grade thermometer from Capitol Scientific and have been using it ever since. It reads accurately and within 3-4 seconds. I am going to guess you actually mashed at a temp 2 or more degrees above 158.
2. Fermentation temp. At 75° fermentation temp (and with your thermometers it may have started at 77-78°), you would get a very fast burst of fermentation and finish out quickly. This would explain some of the off flavors. Your actual fermentation temps could have reached over 80° at high krausen. I built a probe by welding off the end of a 3/8" X 18" stainless steel tube and putting it down the center hole of a carboy cap using the offset for a blowoff tube. Inside I put a probe from a digital meat thermometer. I can assure you that temps rise several degrees when you have a rapid fermentation.

I always start my fermentations on the coolest point available. If optimum fermentation is 65-70° I start at 64-65°.

 

[nosmatt]

newb answer, so take it fwiw.

you mashed @ 158
you used us04 yeast
1030 is where your gonna be.
as the others said, maybe your thermometer was off, but you would be hard pressed to get too much lower than your measured fg with that yeast, and that mash temp.

i have not been below 1.020 with s04, even using extract and airating like heck...and rehydrating/adding small amts of wort to the rehydration vessel.

 

[Jeff48]

So what is he left with, a bad tasting, sweet beer? Is it drinkable? Should he mix it with PBR ? I have the exact same problem but now I understand how to keep it from happening again. Unfermentable sugars suck...... I pitched a second packet of yeast (Notty this time) still nothing. What about a tougher yeast (e.g. a wine yeast)

 

[nosmatt]

if the sugars left are unfermentable, than thats what they are. no yeast can solve it. assuming that is the problem. if notti did nothing, i would guess it is done.
fwiw, on the suggestion of austinhombrew, i mixed my overly hopped apa with some hefe to make the hefe drinkable....