1.128 OG garbage beer

[Lost_Sailor15]

So I decided a few weeks ago to make what I am calling a garbage beer. I am transitioning to all grain and wanted to purge every last grain/extract/sugar that I had in the house. Obviously I had no style in mind. Aside from the grains that I added (which included 2 lbs of chocolate malt), there was about 4.5lbs of malt extract, 4 lbs of cornsugar, and 5 lbs of honey. My starting gravity was 1.128 and I pitched with champagne yeast(EC-118). In the 3rd day of fermentation it foamed out the airlock, oops. After 2 weeks, I transfered it to the secondary and the gravity was 1.053. 2 weeks later(today), I checked the gravity again it is still at 1.053. I would assume with the champagne yeast is would ferment almost completely. Is my fermentation stuck? Should I get another packet of yeast started, transfer to a new fermentor and pitch again? It is way to sweet right now.....

 

[iijakii]

Your mistake was transferring out of primary before fermentation was done. Why did you do that?

I guess you could try repitching, good luck.

 

[david_42]

Yes, your fermentation is stuck. I'd recommend adding yeast nutrient and re-pitching. Champagne yeast will not ferment malt sugars completely, or even honey, for that matter. Only the corn sugar is 100% fermentable.

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

In the future, when you are making a super-strong beer you will probably want to leave it on the yeast cake for at least a month before you even think of racking it.

The thing is, you may be out of fermentable sugar. Two pounds of of chocolate malt will put a bunch of unfermentables into your beer and if your brew closet looked anything like mine did before I moved to all-grain then you probably put a bunch of other grains in with a lot of unfermentable sugar (caramel malts, roasted malt, etc.) into your brew. If you are out of fermentables than nothing you do will lower the gravity except adding some water.

If your yeast is just pooped out you could aerate and add some yeast nutrient to see if that helps.

You could also try making a stronger yeast starter (something that would get your starter yeast up to 7-9% abv) and pitching that into your beer.

Again though, the last two options only work if there is still fermentable sugar to be had.

You could also try making a hops tea and diluting your beer down to like 1.020 with that to see if that cuts the sweetness at all.

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

I transfered to the secondary because the airlock was only bubbling every three minutes. That is typically when I transfer all my beers.


Do you think I should try repitching with a different yeast? Or a combination? I have a belgian strong (1388) on hand and I could pick up a dry mead (4632). I could add some beano to help, but then I would be worried that it would get too dry.

 

[ChshreCat]

+1 on having racked too early. The yeast are on their own timetable. You can't decide it's done because your schedule says it's done. The yeast don't care about your plans. They laugh at your plans. They spit upon your schedule and fart in your general direction. The yeast answer to no one, least of all us puny homebrewers. Yeast are our masters and we are nothing but their lowly servants kneeling before them asking them to grace us with their gifts of alcohol and esters. All hail the yeast.

 

[Boleslaus]

Had you checked the gravity on successive days, or were you just judging by the airlock?

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

I was just basing it on the airlock. I typically don't check my gravity during fermentation. Only when transfering or when I think it is ready for bottling.

 

[jessup]

I transfered to the secondary because the airlock was only bubbling every three minutes. That is typically when I transfer all my beers.

sounds like going by airlock activity. i'll follow up by adding with that type of beer, you should've added all grains first, then followed up by adding adjuncts like corn sugar and honey to the primary after an aggressive primary fermentation was already in progress. that way the yeast become well established and move from the least fermentatble to most fermentable. by adding the adjuncts at the beginning they yeast probably ate the easy food first then gave up when the tough work came with fermenting the other malts sugars/carbohydrates. anyone doing a 120min 20%+ abv beer usually does it that way and it works out quite well surprisingly. it's a tough feat that i've never attempted, though.

add yeast energizer & nutrients and pitch new yeast. aeration might be good but don't oxidize too much! always wait at the minimum of 3 weeks for primary with a BIG beer like this; a month is better!!

 

[ChshreCat]

The yeast scoff at your airlock and your bubble counting skills.

 

[wildwest450]

The yeast scoff at your airlock and your bubble counting skills.

What'd you expect from someone who puts 4lbs of sugar in a beer?

 

[mkling]

The other problem here that no one is mentioning is that you've probably developed lazy yeast. Simple sugars like those found in corn sugar & honey are easy to ferment. When they are in abundance (as they are in your brew where they make up nearly 2/3rds of the sugar in your wort), yeast will eat up the simple sugars and leave the more complex malt sugars behind unfermented. One way folks deal with this when a lot of simple sugars are added is to add them after fermentation of just malt is mostly done (see the DFH 120 minute IPA recipes on the net). Too late for that here though. I think you definitely need new yeast, but a yeast packet won't do because the high alcohol in your brew will knock them down before they get going. If it were me, I'd make a starter and pitch at high krausen so the yeast at active and energetic when you pitch. This may help some. As others have pointed out, yeast nutrients are also really important here -- you have a beer made up of mostly non-malt sugars. The malt is loaded with nutrients, but corn sugar has none & honey has little.

 

[kwantam]

Another option if you have a lot of "unfermentable" sugars is to step up some Brett (e.g., WLP650) to a couple liters and pitch it. It'll be slow, but it'll probably get the job done. Brett will eat most anything eventually.

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

Thanks everyone. One thing, my wort did have a lot more grains than what I mentioned. I was just pointing out that it is a very dark beer. In addition to the chocolate malt, I had 7lbs more grain that was made up of flaked barely, crystal malt, maris otter, belgian cara and a smoked malt. The malt extract was muntons nut brown ale and premier light malt extract. So the cornsugar didn't make up the whole bill......

 

[ChshreCat]

What was your hop schedule like with all that?

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

...I am transitioning to all grain...

I was just basing it on the airlock. I typically don't check my gravity during fermentation. Only when transfering or when I think it is ready for bottling.

Do yourself a favor and read John Palmer's book "How to Brew" straight thru cover to cover before you attempt all grain. IMO you need to at least understand the basics of fermentation before transitioning from extract to all grain.

 

[Clayton]

What was your hop schedule like with all that?

yeah no joke?????
why on earth would doom this train wreak with Champagne yeast?

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

2oz of 8% AA Target hops and 4 oz of 5% AA kent goldings at 60 minutes. 2 oz of homegrown nuggets at 15 minutes.

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

yeah no joke?????
why on earth would doom this train wreak with champain yeast?

I knew that my gravity would be really high, so I wanted something that would get it down to around 1.015 - 1.020

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

Isn't half the fun of homebrewing trying new things?

 

[iijakii]

Isn't half the fun of homebrewing trying new things?

Only when you're fairly certain it will have positive results!

 

[boostsr20]

Honey takes forever to ferment in beer.

 

[Fletch78]

With that starting gravity, and no regiment of aeration during the primary, you can expect that to take 6 months, minimum, to ferment out. And then it's going to need at least another 6 months to age in secondary before you can think about bottling it. You haven't brewed a beer. You've brewed a monster.

Don't worry about that EC-1118, it's still in there, and it's still working, and it will continue to work for a very long time. You can't kill that yeast if you try. I've pasteurized it and still got champagne pop bottles after aging. EC-1118 is no joke. As the other guy said, that yeast is laughing at you right now.

 

[starrfish]

+1 on having racked too early. The yeast are on their own timetable. You can't decide it's done because your schedule says it's done. The yeast don't care about your plans. They laugh at your plans. They spit upon your schedule and fart in your general direction. The yeast answer to no one, least of all us puny homebrewers. Yeast are our masters and we are nothing but their lowly servants kneeling before them asking them to grace us with their gifts of alcohol and esters. All hail the yeast.

so true! so true!

 

[ChshreCat]

Ya know... since this recipe is already completely insane... I'd pitch a good starter of Wyeast 3711 and see what that can do with it. :rockin:

 

[StoutFan]

I will pay for all shipping costs to try this "Franken-brew"!!!!!!!! I have made quite a few "I'm drunk and want to brew, what do I have here?" beers, most are actually drinkable, some even enjoyable! More power to you man!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[corbomite]

I would second the 3711, that yeast gets down super low. I wouldn't suggest the beano, you would be in for a very long slow ferment, if it even worked.
I think this beer is going to be different for sure, but it might be awesome.

The people insulting your process may be content withconstantly making garden variety IPAs, but I say kudos sir!

 

[starrfish]

I would second the 3711, that yeast gets down super low. I wouldn't suggest the beano, you would be in for a very long slow ferment, if it even worked.
I think this beer is going to be different for sure, but it might be awesome.

The people insulting your process may be content withconstantly making garden variety IPAs, but I say kudos sir!

+3 on 3711 and let it ride! nothing else needed spicey with great attenuation ferment warmer than you'd think is normal!

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

I went to the store and they didn't have any 3711. Maybe if our other store wan't closed on Tuesday's(my day off) I could have tried there. Anyway, I ended up buying a smack pack of pastuer champaign (4021), some yeast energizer, and yeast nutrient.

The cross-my-fingers process: Smacked a pack of belgian strong(1388) and the champaign(4021) and alowed them to swell for 5 hours. I sanitized a 2L erlynmeyer flask and added 500mL of the "beer". I diluted to 1L with water, added 1/2 teaspoon of each yeast energizer and nutrient, swirled and added the 2 strains of yeast. I have it covered with foil right now and will let it sit until morning. At that point I will decide what to do next. i.e. add more beer, let sit, or add to the rest of the batch.

What can I say, I am a scientist, so I like to expierement. I have a journal of everything I have done so if it does turn out I can repeat the process. For those that have shown me support.....I don't have a problem shipping a bottle as long as it is not absolute swill. It might need to age a while though.....

 

[ChshreCat]

I too say hats off to your brew. It's not like you planned this, anyway. You had a bunch of stuff you wanted to get rid of so you boiled it all up and threw it in a fermenter. Kind of like the dirty rice of beers. Ya know, dirty rice... when you take whatever leftover meat and veggies you have, chop it up, throw it in rice and call it dinner.

Give it a few months to get down to a stable FG, then at least a few more months in the bottles. This might be an interesting beer next Christmas.

I do want to know about the hops, though.

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

Cat,

If you are looking for my hop schedule it is post #18. If you are wondering about the hop utilization, so am I. With that amount of hops I am hoping that I at least get something. I thought about making a hop tea for this when I was in the planning stages, but opted to put them directly in.

 

[ChshreCat]

I totally missed that post. Yeah, thanks.

 

[jessup]

Honey takes forever to ferment in beer.

not true. i have a peach braggot that has 3 lbs of honey in it. it fermented down to 1.004 in 2 weeks. i did add yeast nutrient because of the honey, though. i know what you're saying but it's not always the case or a rule of thumb...

 

[boostsr20]

not true. i have a peach braggot that has 3 lbs of honey in it. it fermented down to 1.004 in 2 weeks. i did add yeast nutrient because of the honey, though. i know what you're saying but it's not always the case or a rule of thumb...

I should have stated with an ale yeast and other malts/crystals. I used 2 lbs in a stout with wyeast irish ale yeast and it took 3 months to stop fermenting. Could have been part of my process as well but it was the only noted change from the last time I made it with brown sugar.

 

[Fletch78]

I should have stated with an ale yeast and other malts/crystals. I used 2 lbs in a stout with wyeast irish ale yeast and it took 3 months to stop fermenting. Could have been part of my process as well but it was the only noted change from the last time I made it with brown sugar.

Honey should only take a while to ferment if it's the main ingredient because it doesn't have much in the way of nutrient for the yeast, unlike maltose and other ingredients. It's also got a ph that doesn't make yeast happy. But using it as an ingredient among many others, where it is a secondary source of fermentable sugar, it should ferment just as fast. Unless you didn't mix it in well, and much of it sat on the bottom, then it can take a while for the yeast to work through it. These things I know from making mead and reading the GotMead website.

 

[Lost_Sailor15]

The yeast were cooking along nicely when I came home. I aerated the beer for about 30 minutes, added the new starter and some yeast energizer/nutrient. Hopefully this works!

 

[mkling]

You aerated the already mostly fermented beer for 30 minutes? I think you may have some oxidized beer.

 

[klyph]

At 1.05, the yeast may have a way to go, and the oxygen might just help them get there.

Though 30 minutes does sound a bit excessive.

 

[ChshreCat]

Aeration is to help the yeast multiply. Oxygen does nothing to help yeast turn sugar into alcohol. If you built up a good starter, aeration isn't necessary in this situation.

 

[Germelli1]

I got a good laugh out of this thread and I don't really know why or if it was at someone's expense.

A guy makes and absolute trainwreck of a beer with 2 or maybe 3 different yeasts. People flame him for it, someone defends him and suddenly more people back it up. It was a quite comical progression.

Personally I am a huge advocate of the "Phuck it, throw that **** in there and see what happens" so I can't wait to see how this turns out! (This is coming from the person that accidentally mashed an extract brew by deciding to steep 2 row for 45 minutes on a stovetop and dumped 3 pounds of raspberries in the boil and 2 more in the secondary)

hmm I have a bunch of random quantities of grain/extract/sugar/hops laying around *wheels start turning in head* You may have inspired me!