Oxidation in 12oz bottles but not 22oz. Why

Any idea what would explain this. I have a dipa bottled two weeks ago and conditioned at 77deg until 2 days ago when they went into the fridge. Sent one out for a review and the taster noted it's darker than normal appearance for an ipa. I opened one today to check and yeah it's darkwr already than I remember when bottling, can't believe this would get oxidation so fast. So now I just open a 22oz of the same beer and boom glorious orange color looks great. Now I'm confused is it just the size difference or could it be a bottle to bottle thing not sure but any idea why this could be.

I think on Brew Strong they were talking about this. I can't remember exactly what they said but if you look at the volume of the head space for the 22oz and the 12oz bottles they're very close. Also the opening in the bottles are the same size so any oxygen making its way in is the same amount.

The difference ends up being the volume. If the same amount of oxygen makes its way in, then you have 10 extra oz of beer to soak it up (same amount spread out over more beer). I believe on Brew Strong they all said larger storage vessels made for better fresher beer.

Edit: I'm making generalizations when talking about the head space, I'm sure a math nerd could do the math and say the approximate volumes of head space in a properly filled 12oz and 22oz are probably very different. Though they're probably very close.

ArkotRamathorn said:

I think on Brew Strong they were talking about this. I can't remember exactly what they said but if you look at the volume of the head space for the 22oz and the 12oz bottles they're very close. Also the opening in the bottles are the same size so any oxygen making its way in is the same amount.

The difference ends up being the volume. If the same amount of oxygen makes its way in, then you have 10 extra oz of beer to soak it up (same amount spread out over more beer). I believe on Brew Strong they all said larger storage vessels made for better fresher beer.

Edit: I'm making generalizations when talking about the head space, I'm sure a math nerd could do the math and say the approximate volumes of head space in a properly filled 12oz and 22oz are probably very different. Though they're probably very close.

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I was wondering if it was the extra volume in the 22 effecting this and then I wonder will it hit oxidation like the 12 oz with time or does that extra 10 oz buffer the O2? If this is the case I may just start bottling everything in 22 oz bottles. I'll typically fill 6-9 22ozers then the rest are 12oz for bottling 5 gal.

Bump please

Some smaller bottles have a different top shape.

Maybe your capper can't grab it as well?

Kharnynb said:

Some smaller bottles have a different top shape.

Maybe your capper can't grab it as well?

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If that were the case would't you expect those bottles to be flatter/have less carbonation than the others?

Which bottles did you fill first? The beer on top of the filling vessel would have been directly exposed to the oxygen and put in the bottles last. Depending on how long it takes to get the bottles filled, I could see the last ones being affected by the o2 more especially if they are the ones with a smaller volume of beer. It's a reach but...

EarthwormJim said:

If that were the case would't you expect those bottles to be flatter/have less carbonation than the others?

Which bottles did you fill first? The beer on top of the filling vessel would have been directly exposed to the oxygen and put in the bottles last. Depending on how long it takes to get the bottles filled, I could see the last ones being affected by the o2 more especially if they are the ones with a smaller volume of beer. It's a reach but...

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Idk why but usually I'll bottle a case of 12 oz first then the 22s then the rest of the 12 oz'ers.

Kharnynb said:

Some smaller bottles have a different top shape.

Maybe your capper can't grab it as well?

Click to expand...

I would start looking right here....get one of your 12's and one of your 22's and look closely at the very top where the cap sits....SOME bottles are different than others...I had some 12's that had a taper going up to the smooth rounded ring and some that had straighter sides going up. The tapered ones would not allow as good a seal...the taper held the cap a tiny bit away....so it did not seal as good. BTW, those were short stubby bottles, do not recall the brand.

In my case, I had good carb in some bottles and crappy carb in others. Ditched those stubbies and the problem went away. If it ain't sealing good, it will oxidize faster. Worth taking a look.

Mismost said:

I would start looking right here....get one of your 12's and one of your 22's and look closely at the very top where the cap sits....SOME bottles are different than others...I had some 12's that had a taper going up to the smooth rounded ring and some that had straighter sides going up. The tapered ones would not allow as good a seal...the taper held the cap a tiny bit away....so it did not seal as good. BTW, those were short stubby bottles, do not recall the brand.

In my case, I had good carb in some bottles and crappy carb in others. Ditched those stubbies and the problem went away. If it ain't sealing good, it will oxidize faster. Worth taking a look.

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Thanks for the thoughts. These are bottles I've reused both 12's and 22's and some are new. Maybe I didn't crimp the cap down tight enough even though it seemed like it. They're all eithe the bells Oberon bottles like your std bottle or new Belgium bottles which I've used before but have slimmer neck and the 22's are std 22's like a lagunitas 22 bottle. But I've had probs in the past and recently with oxidation so something I'm doing from racking to bottling is the prob as the brew process goes real well and no infection with yeast or anything so it's something in the bottling process it's just hard to figure what it is. Makes me want to keg lol.

Mismost said:

I would start looking right here....get one of your 12's and one of your 22's and look closely at the very top where the cap sits....SOME bottles are different than others...I had some 12's that had a taper going up to the smooth rounded ring and some that had straighter sides going up. The tapered ones would not allow as good a seal...the taper held the cap a tiny bit away....so it did not seal as good. BTW, those were short stubby bottles, do not recall the brand.

In my case, I had good carb in some bottles and crappy carb in others. Ditched those stubbies and the problem went away. If it ain't sealing good, it will oxidize faster. Worth taking a look.

Click to expand...

I agree with original premise. Similar headspace of air, but larger volume, so 22 oz have far less headspace/beer ratio.

But keep in mind that when you fill, you splash (and oxidize) beer mostly during the beginning of the fill. After that it goes smoothly. So that's another reason, regardless of headspace. You have similar amount of oxygen introduced during turbulence, while establishing laminar flow - but the volume is much greater in 22oz case vs. 12 oz case.

55x11 said:

I agree with original premise. Similar headspace of air, but larger volume, so 22 oz have far less headspace/beer ratio.

But keep in mind that when you fill, you splash (and oxidize) beer mostly during the beginning of the fill. After that it goes smoothly. So that's another reason, regardless of headspace. You have similar amount of oxygen introduced during turbulence, while establishing laminar flow - but the volume is much greater in 22oz case vs. 12 oz case.

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So let me ask if one kegs which are purged with co2 and at some point one fills a couple bottles are those bottles wether 12 or 22 as likely to get oxidation due to the filling process or does the fact they're coming from a keg make them less likely to get hit with oxidation.

olotti said:

So let me ask if one kegs which are purged with co2 and at some point one fills a couple bottles are those bottles wether 12 or 22 as likely to get oxidation due to the filling process or does the fact they're coming from a keg make them less likely to get hit with oxidation.

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I believe less likely because the beer will already be carbed in the keg. Ever heard the saying 'cap on foam', they are talking about capping on top of the foam produced from the fill with a beer gun from a keg. The foam is CO2 and is pushing out O2. And when you cap on foam you're trapping some of the carbonation (CO2) in the headspace. No O2 can get in.

Two things I've thought of recently.

First, oxygen absorbing caps, I've always used these since day one. I don't know if you mentioned having using these. So its worth a try if you don't or don't know if yours are O2 absorbing caps.

Second, do you fill and immediately crimp the caps on?

I only ask because I find I haven't had oxygen issues in my bottled beer and my process is fill, then rest the cap on top of the bottle, then keep filling, resting the cap on and moving on. I do not crimp the caps on until all bottles are filled and have a cap resting on top of the bottles. This is purely my non-scientific thought on this so, take it or leave it, but the agitation of filling is probably enough to cause a small amount of the CO2 to come out of solution during the bottling process. If you fill and crimp the caps on right away, the action of taking the wand out replaces the head space with regular air and you seal that in. My thought is my process of waiting till the end allows a small amount of CO2 to come out of solution while I am filling all of the bottles and that pushes out some/all of the air that made its way in after the bottling wand comes out.

Of course this could all be solves with keg fill bottles and capping on foam (I am working on getting my kegging system together since I'm sick of bottling in general anyway).