Sorry folks, I am sure there has to be a thread on this but I can't seem to find one. I know nothing about kegging. Simply know I can't afford to keep buying new bottles. It would appear kegs can store more beer in smaller area which would be a plus for me. However, I don't drink gallons a week, how long can you keep beer in a sealed keg fresh? How long can you keep beer in a keg fresh that has been tapped?
Pros of kegging?
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If you can't afford bottles it does not sound like kegging is the best solution for you. Getting started with kegging is not something that is cheap.
As for your question, if you purge and seal a keg properly the beer will keep like it would in a bottle.
As for your question, if you purge and seal a keg properly the beer will keep like it would in a bottle.
Well, first of all you never have to buy new bottles. The bottles I "buy" are from the store, filled with beer. So if you buy a 12 pack of bottles of Sam Adams, you have 12 "new" bottles right there. Or you can ask friends for their old bottles, or go to the recycling center. Or ask a bar from some empties.
Anyway, if you want to get into kegging that's a good way to store beer as well. A keg will easily last as long as a bottle will. It won't really "go bad" but over time it will age and lose freshness. Some beer styles age nicely, like Russian imperial stouts, and some don't, like hefeweizen, pale ales and other non-complex beers.
divrguy
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Like Bigmack said, why are you buying new bottles and not reusing them?
Bottles..... Go to a local redemption center/beverage store - buy some stuff, ask if you can purchase a few cases of empties...... nickel a bottle.
Kegs:
*You can store beer as long or longer in a keg as you can in a bottle. "Freshness" is more dependent on style than keg vs. bottle. An IPA gets "old" faster than a lager.
*Pro - time. Less cleaning, faster to fill, etc.
*Pro - much easier to reduce/eliminate introducing oxygen to your beer when kegging than it is when bottling. Oxygen is the enemy of beer. So, in this regard, you can keep beer fresher in a keg than you might through the bottling process.
*Pro - as you mentioned - space.
*Pro - turnaround time. No waiting for bottles to carb. You can have cared beers pretty reasonably within 2-5 days of putting beer in keg.
*Con...... unlikely you are going to save money by kegging...... Buy kegs, regulator, CO2 tank, fridge/kegerator, Tapers.....ongoing expense of CO2......it cost $20-$30to fill a CO2 tank. IF you use CO2 for purging kegs - it can go relatively quickly.
Kegs:
*You can store beer as long or longer in a keg as you can in a bottle. "Freshness" is more dependent on style than keg vs. bottle. An IPA gets "old" faster than a lager.
*Pro - time. Less cleaning, faster to fill, etc.
*Pro - much easier to reduce/eliminate introducing oxygen to your beer when kegging than it is when bottling. Oxygen is the enemy of beer. So, in this regard, you can keep beer fresher in a keg than you might through the bottling process.
*Pro - as you mentioned - space.
*Pro - turnaround time. No waiting for bottles to carb. You can have cared beers pretty reasonably within 2-5 days of putting beer in keg.
*Con...... unlikely you are going to save money by kegging...... Buy kegs, regulator, CO2 tank, fridge/kegerator, Tapers.....ongoing expense of CO2......it cost $20-$30to fill a CO2 tank. IF you use CO2 for purging kegs - it can go relatively quickly.
stratslinger
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I'd like to focus on this bit, because it seems to be making a certain assumption that probably needs to be cleared up.
For most of us, our first exposure to kegged beer was at a "keg party" at some point - where someone picked up a keg of whatever was available, "tapped it" with one of those hand pump taps, and everyone hung out until the keg was gone. And if the keg didn't kick at the party, that beer turned pretty nasty after a day or two.
But those of us who maintain our own kegging systems at home are using CO2 to push the beer - not hand pumps - so we're not introducing the same O2 into the beer that stales it. I've had some kegs that hung around for close to a year (certain sours that my wife wouldn't touch), and others that were kicked in a matter of weeks. As long as you seal the keg properly, purge it properly with CO2, and push it with only CO2 (or with beergas, if you're into Nitrogen beers!), a keg will stay good at least as long as bottles will.
There is definitely an up-front investment that you need to keep in mind - you can go "on the cheap" and stick with party taps, but you still have to plan for your CO2 tank, CO2 distribution (depending on how many kegs you want to have online at any given time), your quick disconnects, your kegs (which aren't as cheap as they once were), and all your gas and beer line.
But there's also no denying that it's far easier cleaning and sanitizing a single keg than it is two cases' worth of bottles. And with force carbonation, you can have your beer ready to drink quite a bit more quickly than with bottles too!
madscientist451
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Start off by buying some beer and saving your bottles, ask anyone you know who drinks to start saving theirs and pretty soon you'll have plenty.
To get started kegging, you'll also need a refrigerator
to hold your keg, so that's an extra expense, and it takes up space.
I drink enough beer to keg, but I still bottle because I like to drink different beers . I might start off with an IPA, then go to a stout or porter, or maybe a lager if its hot, then have a saison or a belgian, or get into my sours....you get the idea. I found some beer improves with age, so bottles are better for that.
Some drinkers like to stick with one beer and they're happy having the same thing on tap for an extended time.
Can't afford bottles? Less than $15 for a case. I suppose it would get expensive if you aren't reusing them. Otherwise you can get like 5-8 cases of bottles for the cost of one new keg. That gets you 15-20 gallons of beer compared to 5 gallons.
You can tap and untap kegs as you please. It won't affect the aging process.
Pros of kegging:
Con:
You can tap and untap kegs as you please. It won't affect the aging process.
Pros of kegging:
- Controlled aging.
- No messing with bottling day.
Con:
- Once you start kegging you would rather just keg instead of bottle. That leads to buying more kegs.
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With everyone else. When I started this hobby, simply kept the bottles for myself. One thing to keep in mind is there is a 'good' and 'bad' bottle. Look at the bevel of a bottle top. It should be long, by comparing bottles you'll understand...sorry no pics. The short ones give a feel you have to put more pressure on the capper to seal. I broke mine with these 'bad' bottles and cost 8 stitches.
Also, I used 'oxygen' caps. No so much for the belief they 'suck up' O2, but they appear, at least to me to be a bit larger and fit better.
Oh, as far as kegging, I reused our older chest freezer, which after adding an 8in wood plank collar, could hold 4 kegs. Total cost, including buying a new chest freezer, used kegs, fittings (and *proper beverage* lines!!...learned my lesson...don't buy cheep vinyl...off flavors!) was around $650. I was lucky and a HB friend gave me a 20lbs CO2 tank, otherwise add another $150 or so. Plus you need to set up a temp controller on the freezer.
Bottling is much cheaper if your doing small quantity for yourself. But to answer your question, it takes me 4-5months to finish an Imperial stout, which only gets better with time. I can blow through an IPA/DIPA in a month but I have friends to share. Hard lemonaids get better with time also. So it really depends on what your brewing. Any malt centric brews will be fine for months...if not years..
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After drinking, I rinse 3 times then store. When bottling, which I still do for keg remnants mainly, rinse another 3 times, spray with starsans and use. I'ts actually pretty easy. The key is rinsing out the beer in the first place.
stratslinger
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Awesome. So you do that 50 or so times for each batch. I'll keep doing it once. Who's still having the easier time?
And that's before you get to packaging day - you have to sanitize a bottling bucket, prep your priming sugar, transfer beer and priming sugar to the bottling bucket, then fill and seal 50 or so bottles (that you also had to sanitize). I sanitize a keg, transfer the beer, seal the keg, purge it, and I'm done.
Your main point - that it doesn't have to be all THAT complicated or difficult to prep the bottles - is definitely heard, loud and clear. But it's still tough to argue that, even simplified, it's on par, in terms of ease or time spent, with kegging.
ToddStark
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Apologies folks. Not trying to have a debate about the two options. Typing on a phone so maybe I didn't provide enough details in my original post. I am new to brewing. All my friends seem to drink from cans. I currently have 15 gal bottled and 10 gal in fermentor. I like brewing and tasting lots of diff things but I can't drink it fast enough. I know I can reuse my current bottles, I just need to empty them first. For all the info provided about kegging, thank you kindly! For everybody who got frustrated by the post, I apologize, was not my intent to bring up a contested subject.
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Awesome. So you do that 50 or so times for each batch. I'll keep doing it once. Who's still having the easier time?
And that's before you get to packaging day - you have to sanitize a bottling bucket, prep your priming sugar, transfer beer and priming sugar to the bottling bucket, then fill and seal 50 or so bottles (that you also had to sanitize). I sanitize a keg, transfer the beer, seal the keg, purge it, and I'm done.
Your main point - that it doesn't have to be all THAT complicated or difficult to prep the bottles - is definitely heard, loud and clear. But it's still tough to argue that, even simplified, it's on par, in terms of ease or time spent, with kegging.
Huh ya..that's why I have 5 kegs. 4 in cooler..fully loaded; dipa, ipa, imperial stout, and raspberry hard lemonaid.
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Where in Washington are you? If near Portland, I have about 150 22oz bottles I will give you for free.
If you plan on sticking with brewing, I would recommend going to kegging. I did it after about a year and I wish I had it 11 months earlier. The cost is high but worth it in the time saved and pour just enough beer at a time.
As for bottling, now that you are new brewing, pick up a few bombers of beer at the store now and then for R&D, quickly you will have more bottles than you know what to do with.
If you plan on sticking with brewing, I would recommend going to kegging. I did it after about a year and I wish I had it 11 months earlier. The cost is high but worth it in the time saved and pour just enough beer at a time.
As for bottling, now that you are new brewing, pick up a few bombers of beer at the store now and then for R&D, quickly you will have more bottles than you know what to do with.
LostHopper
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Pardon the interruption: +1 on the Sam Adams bottles. Cap easily and labels fall right off in a quick soak of oxyclean. Other friendly bottles: New Glarus and Dogfish Head.
Back to regular programming.
Easier than them all. Guinness with the plastic wrapper. Cut it off and your good. Thanks Guinness!
stratslinger
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Someone else just told me recently that they were able to go to the local liquor store and buy the empties straight from the recycling side of the house for .05 a piece (could be more depending on the refundable deposit in your state). If you have to buy, that could be a way to go that's pretty affordable.
PrinceOfThePoint
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I have made 50 batches in two years, switched to kegging after batch #7, and I would NEVER consider bottle-conditioning again.
The most important advantages to kegging:
- YOUR BEER WILL BE OXIDIZED IN THE BOTTLING BUCKET as you fill bottle after bottle. You could develop a better, more protected means of bottling, but it will have a cost and require more equipment, and be more complex than filling a keg. (The typical amount of oxidation won't matter so much for beers that have very little hops, but if you are making APA and IPA, you've already lost if you bottle. Check out the many threads by homebrewers wondering why their gravity sample tasted juicy as f--- but the carbonated beer from the bottle tastes nothing like it)
- YOU CAN STILL PACKAGE YOUR BEER IN BOTTLES very easily after you carbonate in the keg. Get a standard plastic racking cane and literally jam it into the open end of the picnic tap. It's a perfect seal (somehow..), and you can then set your dispensing pressure to 1-5 psi, stick the racking cane into the bottle of the bottle or growler and fill from the bottom, capping just after the beer starts to overflow. The beer will be protected by foam on the top before you cap. I have filled a 64 oz growler of IPA this way, opened it A MONTH later, and it was still juicy as hell.
- Total control over level of carbonation
You DO need a place to put this stuff, and that can be prohibitive. I have a chest freezer I got off craigslist for next to nothing and built an STC-1000 temperature control box.
Cheers everyone
The most important advantages to kegging:
- YOUR BEER WILL BE OXIDIZED IN THE BOTTLING BUCKET as you fill bottle after bottle. You could develop a better, more protected means of bottling, but it will have a cost and require more equipment, and be more complex than filling a keg. (The typical amount of oxidation won't matter so much for beers that have very little hops, but if you are making APA and IPA, you've already lost if you bottle. Check out the many threads by homebrewers wondering why their gravity sample tasted juicy as f--- but the carbonated beer from the bottle tastes nothing like it)
- YOU CAN STILL PACKAGE YOUR BEER IN BOTTLES very easily after you carbonate in the keg. Get a standard plastic racking cane and literally jam it into the open end of the picnic tap. It's a perfect seal (somehow..), and you can then set your dispensing pressure to 1-5 psi, stick the racking cane into the bottle of the bottle or growler and fill from the bottom, capping just after the beer starts to overflow. The beer will be protected by foam on the top before you cap. I have filled a 64 oz growler of IPA this way, opened it A MONTH later, and it was still juicy as hell.
- Total control over level of carbonation
You DO need a place to put this stuff, and that can be prohibitive. I have a chest freezer I got off craigslist for next to nothing and built an STC-1000 temperature control box.
Cheers everyone
It took a lot longer than usual....these guys are slipping. Oh well, Im off to transfer my pale ale to secondary ... It's an absolutely required step for good beer
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Going to answer this in a long complex scientific explanation...no.
I've kinda had it with bottling. Was looking into kegging systems and kegerators. Any advice? Should I get a kegging system from a homebrew place like Northern Brewer and a kegerator from a website like CornyKeg? Seems like the equipment overlaps. Also pinlock vs ball lock? Where do you get CO2 tanks filled?
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks
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Lot depends on your abilities, tools, money. If you're handy getting a used chest freezer and converting, building your own temp controller is the way to go. Suggest ball locks, many LHBS places will fill or a weld shop also, a place that sell fire extinguisher/safety equipment also will fill.
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My 4 keg system, pins..but wish i went will ball lock, ran about 650ish. Very important to get true beverage anti-bacterial lines.
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stratslinger
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Converting an old fridge or freezer is pretty easy - a fridge is super simple, since you don't really have to worry about a temperature controller, but if you don't go the freezer-on-the-bottom route, you have to account for the compressor hump.
Honestly, I don't see all that much difference in retrospect between pinlock and balllock kegs - so long as you go with all one or the other, you should be good.
For CO2 tanks and fills, check your local area to see if there's any beverage suppliers and make a couple calls - I found one in my area that supplies a lot of local bars and restaurants, but is also more than happy to help out folks with home draft systems. I was able to "rent" a 15lb CO2 cylinder for a $50 deposit, and they refill it (swap for a pre-filled one) cheaper than any place else local I could find. I even got lucky and found the place when they were just starting to convert their soda distribution from cornies to bag-in-a-box and got a bunch of cornies from them for next to nothing. (Though that ship has probably sailed in most cases by now...)
Pros- Faster, easier, less cleanup/sanitation, excellent storage times, takes less room than bottles, uniform and exact carbonation, faster. Did I mention faster? Did I mention WAY faster? 
Cons-cost of components, CO2 cost.
I bottled for over a year before I started kegging some brews. I used picnic faucets in a spare chest freezer as I gathered components for a keezer. Just finished the keezer build a couple weeks ago. I'm not saying I'll never bottle anything again, I have the equipment and it allows me to keep a bigger variety on hand....however it will be the rare batch rather than every batch. Bottling, by the time I got everything sanitized, racked, bottled and capped took 1-2 hours. I can keg a batch in about 20 minutes. That is time that adds up. I now have 25 gallons of home craft brew in a 37"X22" footprint. Here's a couple photos of how it's laid out.
Cons-cost of components, CO2 cost.
I bottled for over a year before I started kegging some brews. I used picnic faucets in a spare chest freezer as I gathered components for a keezer. Just finished the keezer build a couple weeks ago. I'm not saying I'll never bottle anything again, I have the equipment and it allows me to keep a bigger variety on hand....however it will be the rare batch rather than every batch. Bottling, by the time I got everything sanitized, racked, bottled and capped took 1-2 hours. I can keg a batch in about 20 minutes. That is time that adds up. I now have 25 gallons of home craft brew in a 37"X22" footprint. Here's a couple photos of how it's laid out.
The only real downside to kegging is the upfront cost. IMO, even if you don't drink "a lot of beer", a one keg setup is worth it to me. For me, that first pint I pulled from my first keg of beer was as exciting as popping the top of the very first bottle of beer I made.
I still bottle, but I don't bottle condition anymore. If it's going to be bottles, I'll force carb it in a keg and bottle from that. I just bottle from the keg when I want to move batches around. Bottling is time consuming, but it is also one of the best times for me to relax. If I have a couple of hours to pass, I'll fire up the stereo and crank out a couple of cases before I know it.
I enjoy bottling, but boiling up water to mix up priming sugar, racking to my bottling bucket, waiting 2-3 weeks for conditioning, blah, blah, blah, etc, I don't miss that at all.
I still bottle, but I don't bottle condition anymore. If it's going to be bottles, I'll force carb it in a keg and bottle from that. I just bottle from the keg when I want to move batches around. Bottling is time consuming, but it is also one of the best times for me to relax. If I have a couple of hours to pass, I'll fire up the stereo and crank out a couple of cases before I know it.
I enjoy bottling, but boiling up water to mix up priming sugar, racking to my bottling bucket, waiting 2-3 weeks for conditioning, blah, blah, blah, etc, I don't miss that at all.
HolderHouse
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