Combining HERMS and RIMS

I've been sketching out a 2.5 gal rig I want to build in my basement that will likely be HEMRS. But I was wondering if anyone had combined the two methods in one rig. A classic HERMS that ran the coil into the HLT and then an inline RIMS heater on the output to your sparge arm or what have you. Could you control both elements with a single thermocouple located at the top of the grain bed and a PID?

Why?

Because my other hobbies are chasing rabbits and overengineering things. AND I'd like to see how tightly you can control temperature in a home rig eg. Step your mash temp with as little ramping as possible.

Have you brewed all grain on a three vessel system before?

Maybe I'm guilty of not thinking outside the box but I'm with augie on this one.

For batches at 5 gallons or smaller, seriously consider BIAB

Thermocouple on top of the grain bed wont work as well as you think - in order to get the mash temperature you want, I believe you'd have to have a steam heated tun with mash rake.

Step mashes in a timely manner on HERMS and RIMS without scorching are next to impossible in my experience.

I completely understand where you guys are coming from. Still, when asked "why" I usually respond with "why not"

You can use a Counter-Flow Chiller or Plate Chiller as a heat exchanger for the mash combined with a high powered heating element in a small volume of water, either in a stainless pot or RIMS tube. There are several people who have done this if you do a search for using a CFC as a heat exchanger.

atoughram said:

Step mashes in a timely manner on HERMS and RIMS without scorching are next to impossible in my experience.

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If you have no heating element in your mash tun you won't scorch your grain with a HERMs system. I would be shocked to hear about scorched wort with HERMS at all to be honest. That is until it hits the BK. But during the mash period, I can't see there being a chance.

Egas1949 said:

I completely understand where you guys are coming from. Still, when asked "why" I usually respond with "why not"

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In this case I say not. What would be accomplished other than what appears to be redundancy?

Hello said:

If you have no heating element in your mash tun you won't scorch your grain with a HERMs system. I would be shocked to hear about scorched wort with HERMS at all to be honest. That is until it hits the BK. But during the mash period, I can't see there being a chance.


In this case I say not. What would be accomplished other than what appears to be redundancy?

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yes but with a normal herms your step mashing is slow because one has to raise the temps in the first HLT for the herms to do the same... I guess "timely manner" is the catch here....

I believe I could easily accomplish this myself byjust buying the longer 36" 1800w element and increasing the length of my rims tube... this would allow me to step mash with higher than 1.5-2 degrees a minute rise I get now.. I just havent really needed to do so.

I too think having rims and herms systems together, Especially on such a small brew size system is redundant and a waste of efforts.

if he had direct fired mash tun with a high false bottom, and recirculated through a RIMS coil, that might work. Fire up the burner and recirculate to prevent localized heating.

Hello said:

If you have no heating element in your mash tun you won't scorch your grain with a HERMs system. I would be shocked to hear about scorched wort with HERMS at all to be honest. That is until it hits the BK. But during the mash period, I can't see there being a chance.


In this case I say not. What would be accomplished other than what appears to be redundancy?

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Weren't you asking about running it through a hex and then a RIMS tube?

It'll scorch in the RIMS tube if you loose flow.

Sorry if I wasnt clear.

My concern is I would create a situation like trying to even out all the legs on a table. Chop down Leg A, but too much. Chop down Leg B, now Leg C is too long. Chop down Leg C and Leg A and Leg D are too long. Next thing you know, you turned your diiner table into a coffee table.

From the dynamics I have observed with an immersion coil, my gut says the most important thing is to aggitate the water around the coil. Do not let cool water collect around the coils.

Since it takes time to heat up a volume of water, the easiest thing to adjust for temp control is ride the flow rate through the HERMs coil. If ou are using a RIMs, you have the choice between adjusting the RIMs temp and/or the flow rate.

But futzubf with both, too many knobs and variables to watch and get distracted by.

atoughram said:

Weren't you asking about running it through a hex and then a RIMS tube?

It'll scorch in the RIMS tube if you loose flow.

Sorry if I wasnt clear.

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I wasn't asking anything. I was saying running a 5 gallon brew setup with both RIMs and HERMs seemed redundant.

Hello said:

I wasn't asking anything. I was saying running a 5 gallon brew setup with both RIMs and HERMs seemed redundant.

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And its even more pointless if your only building a tiny 2.5 gallon setup as the OP mentioned.... he did hint that he was bored and wants to experiment but I agree that either system in itself would work better than both combined...Plus, you get the drawbacks of both system to deal with this way...