What would be your ideal LHBS?

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sudbuddy

sudbuddy

Hang on, I had something for this
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Hi Everyone,

As some of you know, I run a LHBS in Northern Illinois. This is not a plug for that shop. I am honestly curious what the HBT community likes and dislikes in their local homebrew shops. In an effort to improve my store (and find out if I'm doing anything that annoys people) I thought I would pose the question to you, the homebrewtalk community. Who better to answer my question than the people that actively homebrew? So please, let me know what you like and dislike about your LHBS and what you think an ideal shop would look like. Don't pull any punches, you won't hurt my feelings.

Cheers!
 
I like the ability to build and order recipes online (individual grain amounts). I'm currently able to make a list, checkout with a selected time and just swing by and my milled bag is waiting. One thing that does annoy me about some shops is the complete lack of prices on anything in the store. One in particular has nothing priced except grains and hops by the ounce, everything else is a complete crapshoot and I have felt like they just made up the price on more than one occasion.

More than anything being friendly (unless your prices are astronomical) keeps me coming back.
 
Easiest way to lose my business is $4oz hop prices like some do. I really like places that do 2oz packs also.

Honestly I'm not too picky. Retail is retail. Have good prices, good selection. Some good homebrew for me to sample is always nice...
 
A well stocked and easy to use grain room is nice.
Mills that work well.
Selling hops by the ounce as well as the pound is a plus. Pound prices discounted quite a bit over ounce pricing.
Dry as well as liquid yeast. Several manufacturers of each.
A knowledgeable attractive female staff which occasionally work topless.
Parts, from airlocks to keg parts.
Fill/sell CO2 tanks.
Regulators and parts for kegging operations.
Clean. Keep the place clean.

That's all I can think of.
What did I win?
 
I like that mine knows my name. But since my actual name is Brewer I bet it's kinda easy for them.

Being in or at very least near my house would be a plus. Move your store to my street.
 
My biggest complaints with my LHBS are:

Yeast and hops kept on the shelf rather than fridge/freezer.

A poor range of grains (mostly Aussie brand only, no English/German grains). I understand it can be difficult to keep a good selection of liquid yeast as it has a short shelf life, but grain doesn't - it'll last for a year at least.

Talking like they know about AG brewing when really they know sweet FA.

And, most frustratingly, regularly mucking up the labels on grain to the point that I'm not always sure what I'm getting. I just don't trust their competence.
 
There are at least 3 shops within reasonable driving distance for me. The primary one is 2 miles from work, so I go over there at lunch. The other two involve about an hour's round trip from my house. One is OK, the other I dislike, so I only go there when the kids give me gift cards. For information I got seriously into brewing about a year and a half ago, and I've brewed about 30 batches since then, about half of those BIAB all grain batches.

What I like about my shops:
  • Good customer service
  • Good selection of ingredients (grain, hops, yeast, extract)
  • Reasonable selection of basic gear (fermenters, airlocks, autosiphons, bottling wands, thermometers, grain bags, etc.)
  • Knowledgeable but not arrogant and/or pushy sales staff
  • Reasonable prices (I'm willing to pay more to shop locally and not have to ship)

What I don't like about one or more of these shops:
  • Pre-milled grain only, sitting around in baggies
  • Old yeast
  • Poor ingredient selection
  • Being out of stock and blaming the weather "back east" when everyone else has it

In other words I'm pretty easy to please. Have a decent selection of stuff in stock and be pleasant about selling it to me. It's not rocket science.
 
Grain in less than lb increments. If I only need an oz to make a recipe it's annoying to have to buy 15 that I won't be using. If I only have to figure out what to do with 6-7 oz leftover, them I'll get adventurous with other styles.
 
This is all really good feedback, please keep it coming. For those of you who mentioned 2 oz. bags of hops, what kind of prices are you seeing?
 
Your front line is important when you are not working. Knowledgeable FRIENDLY staff are key in my humble opinion.

I personally like one stop shopping, so having to swing by another LHBS to pick up the ingredients/yeast/supplies you don't stock or are out of... well you get the idea. I will start thinking about getting my own grain mill and ordering online etc...

Over staffing is not a bad thing either, I am sure it's tough to manage when running a business but if you run a store that fills orders for each customer and measures/crushes their grains versus letting the customer measure and crush their grains then please kindly consider the bottle neck that can make (pun intended)

I am willing to travel up to 45 min one way if you always have everything I am looking to purchase for my brew day, at a reasonable cost
( ;
 
JLeuck64 said:
Over staffing is not a bad thing either, I am sure it's tough to manage when running a business but if you run a store that fills orders for each customer and measures/crushes their grains versus letting the customer measure and crush their grains then please kindly consider the bottle neck that can make (pun intended)
( ;
Click to expand...

Do you prefer shops that let you fill and crush your own grains? The other shops in my area do that, but we fill recipes for the customer. IMO this saves time because we know our grain room so well, and it also greatly reduces the risk of cross-contamination between grain bins. Plus, well, you know, the honor system on grain is nice, but it's really easy to forget to mark down a pound here or there. If you do prefer to pull and mill your own grains, can you tell me why? I'm sure there must be good reasons for it because so many stores do it.
 
My pet peeve is when the LHBS store (that is over an hour away) tells me they are out of product X and won't have any for two weeks. Two WEEKS? How can that be when I can order from MoreBeer and get it in two days or less? Surely their distributor/supplier has a better game than two weeks...
 
sudbuddy said:
This is all really good feedback, please keep it coming. For those of you who mentioned 2 oz. bags of hops, what kind of prices are you seeing?
Click to expand...

Locally (SF Bay Area) they generally run around $3.49 to $3.95. To me, that's far too steep, and I'll only use them in a pinch, if I'm brewing something the following day and don't have them in the freezer already. Plenty of homebrewers (as am sure you know) will just load up from Freshops or the like in the Fall, vacuum and seal them. I'd much rather get them locally as I need them, but paying 2x the price is just unreasonable. We all WANT to buy local, and we're all willing to pay SOME sort of premium for that. But not THAT sort of a premium.

In other stuff I like in a LHBS:

My local (JW in Marin County) has a GREAT idea for folks who don't have the room - you can buy a sack of grain but not take it home, instead you basically have a 50lb "credit" for whatever you got, so every time you come up and grab some, that amount is taken off your total until your "sack" is used up. It means they lose out a little on their retail per pound pricing, but they gain super-loyal customers (and get prepaid for 50lbs from folks who only need 10lbs at the time)

Selection... most of us look for ingredients. Make sure you have those in spades. To me it's kinda pointless stocking higher end items, because folks looking for things like conicals, brew sculptures, bigger kettles are going to do their homework and likely get them online or DIY.

Difficult to do, but CO2. For the longest time, my LHBS in the City NEVER had CO2 in stock. You'd drop your tank off, and usually had to wait 10-14 days to get it back, since they just waited until they got enough, then took them to wherever they filled them (and charged a premium to do so). If you can have a few full fives and twenties on hand for quick exchanges, that'd be great.

One thing I've NEVER seen a LHBS do (in person) is keggles. Kegs are available, I know my local distribution guy can (well, could) get me decommissioned ones. I think if an enterprising LHBS could get a LEGITIMATE source for them, and partner with a welder, you could produce them for < $100 and sell them for $150 or more.
 
Honestly, I can't say if I have a preference or not. I mean... the store I usually buy grains from I just try to leave them alone and not talk to them while they are measuring out my grains. Don't want them to make a mistake if ya know what I mean. But, recently I had to buy grains from a store that let me do everything myself I I found it to be enticing from a home brewers viewpoint. I have TOTAL control over everything that is going into my brew now.

I get where you're coming from on the Honor system... I appreciate your attempt to continue to do business with those dis-honest folks out there! Maybe requiring customer to show their recipe at check-out in combination with another scale up front to weigh everything and make sure it balances, from an accounting standpoint? IDK... just thinking out loud I guess ( ;
 
ubermick said:
My local (JW in Marin County) has a GREAT idea for folks who don't have the room - you can buy a sack of grain but not take it home, instead you basically have a 50lb "credit" for whatever you got, so every time you come up and grab some, that amount is taken off your total until your "sack" is used up. It means they lose out a little on their retail per pound pricing, but they gain super-loyal customers (and get prepaid for 50lbs from folks who only need 10lbs at the time)
Click to expand...

That is a super cool idea, I love it! As for CO2, we refill tanks on site so there's no exchange hassle. I like the keggle idea too, I'll look into it more
 
I think inventory is the most important thing. I have it lucky. There is a very nice LHBS on my way home from work. They know my name because of how much I am in there and offer a discount after a certain amount of business I do there. I do wine, beer, mead, anything I can think of. They always have what I am looking for. I haven't needed to buy anything online in many months. They are knowledgeable as well. If I have a question I can't find online - they are a good resource of information. Strippers would be nice though, but I will take good inventories.
 
My biggest pet peeve of my LHBS is that they let their inventory of hops and yeast deplete pretty bad before ordering more. I never have to worry about not getting US-05 or centennial hops, but I have had several experiences where I go in with a specific hop or yeast in mind for a recipe (nothing crazy mind you) and they just don't have it. They guy is great but a well stocked fridge of yeast and hops would really make a difference.
 
sudbuddy said:
Do you prefer shops that let you fill and crush your own grains? The other shops in my area do that, but we fill recipes for the customer. IMO this saves time because we know our grain room so well, and it also greatly reduces the risk of cross-contamination between grain bins. Plus, well, you know, the honor system on grain is nice, but it's really easy to forget to mark down a pound here or there. If you do prefer to pull and mill your own grains, can you tell me why? I'm sure there must be good reasons for it because so many stores do it.
Click to expand...

I might have agreed with this if most of the customers coming in are buying semi bulk grains. IOW, if they buy a lb of crystal 15,60 and 120, Carafa 2, Carapils, etc then they may be tipping the scales. But, if their buying a recipe, I would think they would stay closer to exact amounts.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
ubermick said:
you can buy a sack of grain but not take it home, instead you basically have a 50lb "credit" for whatever you got, so every time you come up and grab some, that amount is taken off your total until your "sack" is used up. It means they lose out a little on their retail per pound pricing, but they gain super-loyal customers (and get prepaid for 50lbs from folks who only need 10lbs at the time)
Click to expand...

I love this idea!



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
sudbuddy said:
Do you prefer shops that let you fill and crush your own grains? The other shops in my area do that, but we fill recipes for the customer. IMO this saves time because we know our grain room so well, and it also greatly reduces the risk of cross-contamination between grain bins. Plus, well, you know, the honor system on grain is nice, but it's really easy to forget to mark down a pound here or there. If you do prefer to pull and mill your own grains, can you tell me why? I'm sure there must be good reasons for it because so many stores do it.
Click to expand...

My LHBS fills recipes for me. I prefer it this way. It is actually one of the reasons I started going to this shop instead of the one I used to go to. I prefer to be able to rattle off a recipe and have the guy just get the grain quickly. At the other shop I used to go to I would have to search around for the grains and if it was busy I felt like I was just in the way, especially if they didn't carry a specific grain then I would be searching for a long time.

Another thing that I love about my LHBS is that I can buy CO2, I can't fill a tank but they can usually get a couple pounds in my tank which is much more convenient than going somewhere specifically to fill my tank. They also have a full selection of kegging parts, kegs, tanks, and tubing which is nice.

My LHBS is also very clean and has bright lighting which makes it very inviting. They offer a 5% discount on grain to AHA members. Bulk hops discounts for everyone as well. When I asked about buying bulk grains they gave me the price of $55 for 50 lbs of 2 row and informed me that for $5 more I could buy a stamp card that is basically like buying the sack of grain but storing it there. Every time I get 2 row they just mark off how much I had off the card and I get the bulk price without having to store it at my house. I love that. They also have a stamp card of buy 10 batches-worth of ingredients (grain, hops, and yeast) and your 11th batch is free! That card is like gold. I thought I lost my wallet one time and was more concerned about my stamp card than my credit card!

The staff is knowledgeable (for the most part.) There was one guy there that questioned the amount of chocolate rye I put in a recipe, when i asked him for his suggested amount he said he had never used chocolate rye before, that kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

The one complaint I have about my LHBS is the hours. I wish they opened earlier so I could stop by before work or that they were open later so I could stop by after work. I am at work during their week day hours so my only option is to go on the weekend.

Wow, I guess I have a lot that I love about my LHBS! Hope this helps you out!
 
My lhbs lets you open up a lb of specialty grain and get whatever quantity you want whether it's .15oz or 8oz and he just divides your quantity by the lb price. Also a great variety of inventory. It gets me to impulse buy all the time.
 
I appreciate a good selection of grains.

There are 3 places I shop and one is online. The online store is also 1/2 hour longer of a drive than my local 45 minute away places.

I like the online store the best. They have grains that are less as far as will save me $4-$5 per 15LB grain bill above the other places. Selection is good but hops and yeast are priced full retail.

So basically what I look for are hops by the pound for less than $20/lb. Also grains less than full retail.

I don't mind equipment full retail as I only buy that once but that would also be nice to be less.

Reward programs I appreciate a lot as I can accumulate a lot because I have OCD brewing disorder.
 
WayFrae said:
My LHBS is also very clean and has bright lighting which makes it very inviting. They offer a 5% discount on grain to AHA members. Bulk hops discounts for everyone as well. When I asked about buying bulk grains they gave me the price of $55 for 50 lbs of 2 row and informed me that for $5 more I could buy a stamp card that is basically like buying the sack of grain but storing it there. Every time I get 2 row they just mark off how much I had off the card and I get the bulk price without having to store it at my house. I love that. They also have a stamp card of buy 10 batches-worth of ingredients (grain, hops, and yeast) and your 11th batch is free! That card is like gold. I thought I lost my wallet one time and was more concerned about my stamp card than my credit card!
Click to expand...


That is awesome! Earlier in this thread someone mentioned a similar program at their LHBS and I was trying to figure out a way to implement it in mine. Now I can rip off this punch card idea and make everybody happy. Thanks!
 
sudbuddy said:
Do you prefer shops that let you fill and crush your own grains? The other shops in my area do that, but we fill recipes for the customer. IMO this saves time because we know our grain room so well, and it also greatly reduces the risk of cross-contamination between grain bins. Plus, well, you know, the honor system on grain is nice, but it's really easy to forget to mark down a pound here or there. If you do prefer to pull and mill your own grains, can you tell me why? I'm sure there must be good reasons for it because so many stores do it.
Click to expand...

My favorite shop gets my grain for me and mills it the way I want it. Another shop is self-serve, and I don't care for that. It takes me a lot longer to find and weigh out the grain. The third shop only sells grain pre-milled in 1-pound baggies. I absolutely hate that and don't buy grain from them. Or much of anything else.
 
My LHBS does something really cool. If the liquid yeast I want is a few months old, the owner will offer to get some fresh yeast of that variety added to his next weekly order. Of course, this requires a bit of planning ahead for the customer, but I like getting Wyeast or WL that is just a couple weeks old.

Having lots of the little hardware items on hand is nice. Fittings, tubing, clamps, valves, adapters, stoppers, etc. I know this ties up $$ in inventory, but it sure is nice when a minor crisis is averted by finding that right part.

I prefer a self-serve grain room. Keep the bins full, set out a few scales, scoops and plastic bags, and keep your mill well-adjusted, and you're good to go. The shop I go to has grain bins color-coded by price. One color is $1.49/lb, another $1.79, and so forth. It's nice to go to the counter and pay for x lbs of blue, y lbs. of red, etc., rather than having to itemize every grain.
 
One of the shops in Cook County allows the customer to complete their order online, and they will gather all the grains and mill them for you to pick up the next day. Historically, this has been problematic though, as they have A) run out of supplies which they show they have inventory of, B) screw up my order with simple things. Sooooo, I first stopped pre-ordering since I couldn't trust they were getting the grains/amounts right and eventually quit the store. BUT, the recipe builder was a good idea and really helpful for me when I was a new brewer and sort of intimidated.

Now I go to another store which is self-help in terms of grains, and I like it. But again, it's intimidating to newbs, so I think it's helpful to maybe help assemble orders for newer folks.

Also, hours are a big one for me. I like to brew on Sunday afternoons, and there have been times I could have used something from the store but they close at 5pm on Sundays.
 
Jaybird said:
You bet. I still use a LOT of the input that was given in that thread from when I posted it. Lot of good feedback and input. Win Win for everyone.



Good luck with your shop.



Cheers

Jay
Click to expand...


Thanks Jay. Do you sell your false bottoms, etc. wholesale? I really like the design and I'd love to stock them. Please PM me the details if you do
 
Something that killed my LHBS for me was their bulk pricing. I wanted a bag of two-row, and they wanted $65 for it. I'm in Sacramento, and have family in the bay. So that means that I'm buying from MoreBeer when I'm passing through as opposed to supporting local.
 

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