Adjusting hop utilization profiles when using a Hop-spider

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Gavin C

Gavin C

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As the title suggests I am curious as to what adjustments, if any, people are making in their brewing software/ calculations to account for the use of a hop-spider as opposed to the use of no hop containment in the boil kettle.

Adjustments for use of hop socks or metal strainers would also be relevant. I don't use these however so it is not the principal thrust of the thread. I put on this will no doubt be of use to many however.

Thanks in advance for any pointers
 
Great question! I was going to post this up today as well --- I just made a spider the other night, and also ordered a 300 micron SS cylinder from these guys. I love it, but it's not conducive to brewing 3 gallon batches. I got the 6" x 12" for my Pot, and it'll be great when I move on to 5 gallon batches.

Looking forward to reading this one.

-Murph
 
Yes I've been mulling over getting a SS hop container. The company you show seems to have a good product as does Stainlessbrewing.

I haven't noticed any beers being inadequately bitter or hoppy with my hop utilization at 100%. I am no taste expert though.
 
As long as you get good wort movement through the strainer than I don't think the utilization is affected as much as it would be when you pack the hops in a hop bag. The pellets are able to freely move around inside the strainer would have very little affect on the utilization. I have heard some people say that when using the hop bags to account for a 10% lose in utilization. However without any actual testing on the IBU its hard to get an accurate account of the percentage lose.
When I used my hop spider with the 5 gallon paint strainer bag the hops were able to move freely around inside the bag and when I brewed my IPA I couldn't tell much of a difference. Best thing you could do is to just test using a recipe you know and if it turns out the same than no utilization is lost. Keep it consistent after that point.
 
For my IPAs and Pales i dont use the hop spider at all. I only use it for my low IBU beers. Also i dont use the spider when i use whole leaf hops. did that before and totally missed the mark.
 
I used to use a hop spider to prevent the dreaded plate chiller clog. But after a while I came to the realization that I really shouldn't have to throw a lb of hops into the kettle to get really good flavor.

So I didn't use it one session and made a beer with a mere 4oz of hops. Wow, what a difference!

Only problem is if i go higher than that, my plate chiller clogs, and life is miserable.

Lately i've been keeping the hops low just to prevent this problem, but I think another solution is needed since I am lusting for a hop bomb.
 
I use hop socks and never adjusted, until this thread I have never seen, read, or heard anything about adjusting for hops when contained.

This is news to me...
 
This is something I have wondered about as I use a hop spider. Am I getting 100% utilization or is the fine-mesh bag inhibiting it some? I do stir the hops inside the bag occasionally during the boil.
 
tally350z said:
As long as you get good wort movement through the strainer than I don't think the utilization is affected as much as it would be when you pack the hops in a hop bag. The pellets are able to freely move around inside the strainer would have very little affect on the utilization. I have heard some people say that when using the hop bags to account for a 10% lose in utilization. However without any actual testing on the IBU its hard to get an accurate account of the percentage lose.
When I used my hop spider with the 5 gallon paint strainer bag the hops were able to move freely around inside the bag and when I brewed my IPA I couldn't tell much of a difference. Best thing you could do is to just test using a recipe you know and if it turns out the same than no utilization is lost. Keep it consistent after that point.
Click to expand...

Not true in practice. -The stainless hop spiders sticking up out of the wort essentially make the whole thing a big cooling tower; the inside of your hop spider can be as low as 208F while the wort outside of the spider is at boiling. The reduction in temp == reduction in isomerization rate.

I think if you pulled out the tinseth chart that the curve in the various brewing tools are based upon, you could just look at the rate @ 208F for your gravity, then make your simple pellet or whole hop adjustment and you'd get really close.

I definitely noticed a drop in bitterness after using the hop spider (but it's totally worth it to avoid clogging and cleaning the mess).


adam
 
biertourist said:
Not true in practice. -The stainless hop spiders sticking up out of the wort essentially make the whole thing a big cooling tower; the inside of your hop spider can be as low as 208F while the wort outside of the spider is at boiling. The reduction in temp == reduction in isomerization rate.

I think if you pulled out the tinseth chart that the curve in the various brewing tools are based upon, you could just look at the rate @ 208F for your gravity, then make your simple pellet or whole hop adjustment and you'd get really close.

I definitely noticed a drop in bitterness after using the hop spider (but it's totally worth it to avoid clogging and cleaning the mess).


adam
Click to expand...

Is that from experience? I never used one of the stainless hop spider tubes, only the spiders with the bags and never noticed a decrease in temp from the inside to the outside..
 
biertourist said:
Not true in practice. -The stainless hop spiders sticking up out of the wort essentially make the whole thing a big cooling tower; the inside of your hop spider can be as low as 208F while the wort outside of the spider is at boiling. The reduction in temp == reduction in isomerization rate.

I think if you pulled out the tinseth chart that the curve in the various brewing tools are based upon, you could just look at the rate @ 208F for your gravity, then make your simple pellet or whole hop adjustment and you'd get really close.

I definitely noticed a drop in bitterness after using the hop spider (but it's totally worth it to avoid clogging and cleaning the mess).


adam
Click to expand...

Is that from experience and testing? I never used the all stainless hop strainer your referring too, only the hop spider with the bag and noticed no difference in temp.
 
I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag clipped to the rim of the kettle. I make no adjustments. Maybe, someday, if I am bored enough I will try a recipe and do it with and without the bag. Until then I get good hop utilization, so I am not too worried about things.
 
Interesting stuff. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

The SS mesh spider acting as cooling tower. I've never looked at it that way before. I too use a 5 gallon pain strainer bag as a spider. I don't want my plate-chiller to clog. Next brew I will check the temperature inside and outside of the bag during the boil with my Thermapen and report back.

Hop Spider in action Hop spider and Boil.jpg

I give the spider a bit of a lift up and down and move it about a bit for a few seconds after each addition making sure no pellets are above the water line caught in the mesh.
 
Gavin C said:
Interesting stuff. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

The SS mesh spider acting as cooling tower. I've never looked at it that way before. I too use a 5 gallon pain strainer bag as a spider. I don't want my plate-chiller to clog. Next brew I will check the temperature inside and outside of the bag during the boil with my Thermapen and report back.

Hop Spider in actionView attachment 267020

I give the spider a bit of a lift up and down and move it about a bit for a few seconds after each addition making sure no pellets are above the water line caught in the mesh.
Click to expand...

When you get tired of how big and unstorable that thing is, remove the 3 threaded rods and just put a piece of copper pipe through it. Works perfectly, won't rust, and makes storage of the thing easy. Plus, the collar and net can drop into a bucket for oxycleaning. I used to have 4 legs on mine, but not now.

img_6301-59697.jpg
 
passedpawn said:
When you get tired of how big and unstorable that thing is, remove the 3 threaded rods and just put a piece of copper pipe through it. Works perfectly, won't rust, and makes storage of the thing easy. Plus, the collar and net can drop into a bucket for oxycleaning. I used to have 4 legs on mine, but not now.

img_6301-59697.jpg
Click to expand...

That's surely a far more elegant solution. I think it works better on a keggle where there is little to no risk of it falling in. Very nice indeed.

My bolts are stainless so rust is not a concern. Washing it is a bit awkward for sure. It fits in the dishwasher albeit with some organisational effort. The bag goes in the laundry.
 
I use a homemade hop spider out of the ss eye bolts and sink flange with the 5 Gal mesh paint strainer bags and I don't really feel I loe any hop utilization. I've made high ibu iPas and low ibu pale ales and wheat beers and get really good hop flavor and bitterness. I always stir during the boil to make sure the bag is getting sort through it and I just wash off the ss parts and I throw away the bags they're cheap enough I'd rather start with a fresh one than reuse one. I love it keeps all the hop well most of the hop gunk out but I still feel it get most of my projected ibus plus I do hop stands And it's a great tool for those.
 
olotti said:
I do hop stands And it's a great tool for those.
Click to expand...

Great to know. I've been doing some reading on hop stands, whirlpool hops, hop bursting etc. and was wondering if it was feasible with the spider. I guess once the wort is adequately agitated it is no problem. Thanks for the info
 

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