Mash Acidification & Water Adjust. Questions

New to water adjustments, just curious if this sounds right. I did read the water primer and a couple other texts before anyone asks.

Using Brewer's Friend for the Calculations. BrunWater doesn't work right for me for some reason. Lots of graphical errors. Anyway..

Started with this random water for practice, I believe it was Boston.

Ca - 4ppm
Mg - 1ppm
Na - 10ppm
Cl - 14ppm
SO4 - 8ppm
HCO3- 10ppm
pH - 7.9

So I went with the "light color and hoppy" option on the calculator and this is what it came up with for me:

Ca - 75ppm
Mg - 5ppm
Na - 10ppm
Cl - 50ppm
SO4 - 150ppm

I am confused by this because of the need for chloride to balance out the sulfates. Unless I misinterpreted something in the water primer here and my other texts. I was of the belief it should be a 2:1 sulfate to chloride ratio for hoppy beers. I realize it's close, just curious if it's close enough.

My predicted mash pH is 5.6 for my recipe. To hit my target mash pH it is suggesting 7ml of lactic acid. I was planning to use the 88% liquid solution. The 7mls seems like a lot, just curious about other people's experiences with this and if it will effect the flavor at all. Don't want any sourness accompanying my ipa.

Are there any mash pH adjustment calculators out there where I can just input my volumes and the mash ph and it will give me the correct ml addition? It seems the one I am using just automatically calculates it for me. That's great, but what if it's wrong?

Also, what are some good procedures you guys use for a test mash?

Thanks for reading, I know it was a little long winded. Any help someone more experienced could provide me would be awesome.

Cheers

kcmobrewer said:

Started with this random water for practice, I believe it was Boston.

Ca - 4ppm
Mg - 1ppm
Na - 10ppm
Cl - 14ppm
SO4 - 8ppm
HCO3- 10ppm
pH - 7.9

Click to expand...

Sure it was Boston (not that it matters)? NYC has excellent and low mineral content water (one of the few things about the Big Apple that isn't FUBAR).

kcmobrewer said:

So I went with the "light color and hoppy" option on the calculator and this is what it came up with for me:

Ca - 75ppm
Mg - 5ppm
Na - 10ppm
Cl - 50ppm
SO4 - 150ppm

I am confused by this because of the need for chloride to balance out the sulfates. Unless I misinterpreted something in the water primer here and my other texts. I was of the belief it should be a 2:1 sulfate to chloride ratio for hoppy beers.

Click to expand...

The first thing you need to do is forget about the 'need for chloride to balance out the sulfates'. Chloride and sulfate have separate and independent effects. You can't repair excess sulfate by adding more chloride or conversely. You wouldn't find anything about sulfate:chloride in the Primer because its author doesn't subscribe to the sulfate:chloride theory.

kcmobrewer said:

My predicted mash pH is 5.6 for my recipe. To hit my target mash pH it is suggesting 7ml of lactic acid. I was planning to use the 88% liquid solution. The 7mls seems like a lot, just curious about other people's experiences with this and if it will effect the flavor at all. Don't want any sourness accompanying my ipa.

Click to expand...

It depends on the volume of beer you intend to brew. For a typical 5 gal batch 7 mL does seem like a lot given that your water has no alkalinity to speak of.

kcmobrewer said:

Are there any mash pH adjustment calculators out there where I can just input my volumes and the mash ph and it will give me the correct ml addition?

Click to expand...

Yes, I have one but I don't publicize it because it isn't for beginners and requires you to use the Excel Solver which frightens people.

kcmobrewer said:

It seems the one I am using just automatically calculates it for me. That's great, but what if it's wrong?

Click to expand...

My calculator is quite robust but I still cannot promise that it won't be wrong unless you furnish it detailed titration data about each of the malts you are using. That is the main shortcoming with most of the calculators i.e. not knowing how the particular malts being used will react in the mash tun.

kcmobrewer said:

Also, what are some good procedures you guys use for a test mash?

Click to expand...

Take a pound of the well blended grist (each of the malts must be in the same proportion in the test mash as they are for the main mash). Heat a quart and a half of the water to the strike temperature you intend to use and add the grains. Maintain the test mash at the strike temperature for half and hour or so. Stir the mash and take pH readings every 5 minutes or so. Be sure to cool samples to room temperature. After half and hour look at the pH history and decide whether the pH is too high, too low or OK. Calculate the amount of acid or base needed to make the adjustment to desired pH if correction is necessary. Add that amount of acid or base to the water and repeat. Keep doing this until you get a good pH reading. Scale the correcting acid/base addition to the full length of the brew.

Thanks for all the useful info. I really appreciate it. Guess I have a bit more reading to do.

Gonna give it a shot here in a couple weeks. Been taking a break from brewing to learn about water chemistry.

What type of ph meter do you use? I was planning on going with the one that Kal uses with ATC from the electric brewery.


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Oh also, where can I find just plain old table salt? The only stuff I've been able to track down has weird additives... Even at the dang grocery store.


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kcmobrewer said:

Oh also, where can I find just plain old table salt? The only stuff I've been able to track down has weird additives... Even at the dang grocery store.


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Click to expand...

Salt normally just comes plain or "iodized". I think Kosher salt would be without additives. A quick lookup shows some salts contain anti-caking agents if that is what you are referring too? Normally though, you don't add salt to beer.

I use a Hach QD40d (does DO and conductivity in addition to pH) in the brewery but you are not interested in one of those because of the cost. I have also evaluated the Hach Pocket Pro + and believe it to be adequate for brewing as it is stable but they have shipped some with bad electrodes and no one knows what the expected life is as the unit hasn't been on the market for a year yet. People report favorably on the Milwaukee MW-102 (I think it is - digital meter with ATC) and a couple of folks seem to like the new Omega pocket meter.

Kosher salt from the health food store should be free of iodine which you want to avoid as it is poisonous to yeast.

Yeah all the kosher salt I have found has that anti caking agent. Figured that wasn't good for brewing. I looked up some stuff about it and I think it has some bad stuff in it


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