Predominance of low lovibond grains in Ambers?

I was talking with my brother about what a craft beer is. You know the drill, how craft beers are built for taste rather than profit by using a recipe geared for taste rather than stretching a dollar... That lead me to an observation.

I've looked at various recipes, ambers in particular as that's my current fav, in many places. In the recipe area here at HBT, Brewers Friend, online places of all kinds. I've noticed that a very, very high percentage of those recipes will have a majority of two row or very similar. Then, a spattering in varying percentages of the malty players such as vienna, munich, C40, C60, various roasted malts, etc designed to get the grist darker, maltier so as to make an amber.

So let me ask you guys and gals what you think is behind the prevalent use of a high percentage of two row? Diastastic (starch conversion) power? If so, won't most all base malts be at least self converting?

In tweaking a current recipe (and learning water chem) I'm using 2 lbs of two row and the remainder being vienna, munich, crystals and roasted malts. I'm getting the SRM to between 10 and 13 while no more than 19% two row. Incidentally, the ABV (assuming yeast behaves as it has been) will be about 5.25% AFTER assuming normal 40% fermentation of sugars from crystal malts)

(inhaling) soooo, why do you think a large number of peeps use high percentages of low lovibond malt when malty goodness abounds in darker, "amberer" and more flavorful malts? You know, why not use more "craft beer" worthy malts, sorta saying? The big brewers trying to save a buck use not only rice syrup, etc, but a lot of two row then a maybe a token crystal and a roasted malt to bring color and a hint of 'amberishness' to their psuedo-craft beers. Why are so many recipe submitters following suit? Am I wrong, missing something?

Is the flayva of my thinking coming through?

I hear what you're saying, and it'd be worth trying an experiment making something like a hoppy Oktoberfest--that is, use a ton of a Vienna or Munich to lay the malty foundation.

But another answer is just that amber is a different beer. "Amber" doesn't just mean a color; it also has come to mean something of a style, too, even though it was only recently invented. And that style tends to be about hops and crystal malts--sort of like the sweeter cousin of an IPA or APA. The flavor you get from crystal is different from the flavor you get using a lot of lightly kilned malts. It's not necessarily about being cheap; it's just that a little crystal goes a long way. You also get more sweetness at a lower ABV.

There are plenty of good amber recipes on this site (and APAs and IPAs, for that matter) that use a fair amount of Vienna or Munich. So if it works for you, do it! You could also use pale ale malt, i.e. stuff that's more like 3.5L in color instead of the very light stuff. Or you could use a more interesting 2-row, like Maris Otter or something else English.

Tutsbrew said:

(inhaling) soooo, why do you think a large number of peeps use high percentages of low lovibond malt when malty goodness abounds in darker, "amberer" and more flavorful malts? You know, why not use more "craft beer" worthy malts, sorta saying? The big brewers trying to save a buck use not only rice syrup, etc, but a lot of two row then a maybe a token crystal and a roasted malt to bring color and a hint of 'amberishness' to their psuedo-craft beers. Why are so many recipe submitters following suit? Am I wrong, missing something?

Is the flayva of my thinking coming through?

Click to expand...

Well, you need base malt for the base. Think of it this way. Say that you're making spaghetti sauce. Tomato sauce is the base. Then, you add oregano and onions and garlic, some more than others, to get spaghetti sauce.

The same is true of beer. you need your base (tomato sauce). In this case, it's some sort of two-row malt like US two-row, maris otter, Vienna malt, Munich malt, etc. Then you add your onions. That would be the crystal/caramel malt in an amber. After that, you use a little bit of oregano (your roasted malt if using). You don't want 50% oregano and onions- you want mostly tomato sauce but want to season it to make it spaghetti sauce. The same is true of brewing.

While some higher kilned malts like Vienna malt and Munich malt are used as base malts, they are much "maltier" than a plain US two-row, and often overpowering in a beer that gets depth and flavor from hops and some crystal malt. Few beers are great with 100% Munich malt as a base malt, except for malt bombs.

In American ambers, as much as 15% caramel/crystal malt can be used for a really nice sweet profile, but most people will stay at 10-12% as to not make a cloying beer. A little Munich malt, a pound or two, will enhance maltiness and bring a nice orange color and a strong malt aroma to an amber. More than that, and the beer will taste more like a German malty beer than an American amber.

A good beer is all about balance and having the right amount of malt flavor, hops bitterness and aroma, and yeast character. In most cases, "less is more" is better than "more is more", at least with brewing.

Motoneuron and Yooper:

Thank you! ...And I get what you guys are saying.

Hmmm, having not brewed any great number of beers at all, and still looking to brew that first truly good beer, I appreciate the little things along the way that I learn. I think I'll take the ideas you gave and revisit Brewers Friend as you guys may have helped prevent my next brew in a week or two from possibly being an over the top (way, way over) malt bomb rather than a good amberish ale.

Again, I appreciate your timely responses and the information. Cheers!