"Marzen" beer: AKA "Oktoberfest"?

During the 15 months I spent in Germany in the mid-'70s, I had the opportunity to sample "just a few" beers. I was stationed near Nurnberg, and enjoyed in particular a beer caller "Marzen" (pronounced mayr-tzen --- sorry I don't have a way to insert the umlaut over the 'a'), Marzen being the month of "March". It was a beer traditionally brewed in March, stronger than the already-hefty tap beers on the local economy. It became my go-to beer. My understanding is that in the old days in Germany before refrigeration, brewing had to stop before the warm weather came, March being the last month for safe, cool-weather brewing. The beer brewed then was kept cool through the summer months in cellars. Then when the cooler fall months came around, the brewers needed to make room in the vats for resumed brewing, so the Marzen beer were empitied/consumed then to make room.

So, my question is this: is what has become known culturally (at least to us modern-day Americans) as an "Oktoberfest" beer really a traditional Marzen? Being an extract newbie, I've looked for a Marzen beer kit, but haven't seen one. So, if I wanted to brew a Marzen beer from a kit, would I use an Oktoberfest beer? IOW, are they one-in-the-same?

Yes, Marzen and octoberfest are more or less the same style. they even share a subcategory in the BJCP style guidelines. In commercial beers in the states marzen is often slightly lower gravity than a fest marzen or octoberfest. but more or less the same.

Yes, they are considered the same.

When I lived in Germany marzens were one of my all-time favorite beers, and I generally make one a year even now.

Yes, they're generally the same. Since I like to drink Marzen year round, I made one in December and it's almost gone now. Still being sorta noob myself, and not having a fermentation chamber (refrigerator for temp control) to make a true lager, I used White Labs WLP060 American Ale Blend yeast and kept it as cool as possible (around 66*F), and made a decent "Marzen ale". Wyeast 2112 California Lager yeast might also be a good one to try if temp control isn't great. Something to consider depending on how badly you need a Marzen and how noob you are. My garage has held 52-54* for the past month, so maybe it's time to brew another batch with real lager yeast!

I'm going to try a Marzen recipe next weekend, but brewed as an ale, and am thinking it will basically be a Marzen-style Amber Ale.

Scott

Scottie61 said:

I'm going to try a Marzen recipe next weekend, but brewed as an ale, and am thinking it will basically be a Marzen-style Amber Ale.

Scott

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Let us know how it turns out. Being a newbie, I'm far from being set up for lagers. After a couple more kit beers, I may try my hand at AG, unless there is a good ME kit out there somewhere. So far, I've not been able to find one.

morticaixavier said:

Yes, Marzen and octoberfest are more or less the same style. they even share a subcategory in the BJCP style guidelines. In commercial beers in the states marzen is often slightly lower gravity than a fest marzen or octoberfest. but more or less the same.

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Glad to hear this. I guess I'm still wondering why, if they are generally one-in-the-same, i.e., a "Festmartzen" is more or less the same as an "Oktoberfest", then why so much more emphasis on Oktoberfest-style beers in the U.S. and not as much on Marzens? Here in the Northeast, there are a tons of microbreweries, almost all of which market an Oktoberfest, with very few selling a Marzen. Is this just a matter of marketing something which to the average person is more familiar?

I'd guess name recognition for Americans, aka marketing, as you said. Everybody's heard of Oktoberfest, only German beer fans have heard of Marzen.

I love a good Marzenbier. As I understand, the beer brewed just before the end of the season was stored in caves and lagered over the summer. In the fall when the harvest came in and the brewing started up again they celebrated the harvest with a big party. This party has evolved into what we now call Oktoberfest which came about when the annual festival was held in connection with a famous marriage party.

Anyway, I am not sure how much stronger this beer is supposed to be from what we call Oktoberfest ales, as far as I knew they were exactly the same thing.

Here's a good BYO article about it if you are interested in the history. But yeah, you can do a search for Marzen or Oktoberfest because the kits are generally synonymous. If you get into all-grain brewing you should also look up decoction mashing. It's a pretty popular process when making a Marzen. Oktoberfest/Marzen are pretty popular around this time so be on the lookout for specials.

I wonder if the American beer marketers might be doing themselves a disservice not to more strongly campaign for the attributes of a Marzen? For example, a commercial "Oktoberfest" (Marzen) beer in the Northeast tends to show up mainly in the fall and consequently, sold and consumed around that time and not as much during the rest of the year. Esp. with marketing gimicks like the addition of fall colors to labels and flavorings like "pumpkin", etc.. Believe me, if your beer tasted like raw squash, you'd spit it out! Being a lifelong nor'easter, I realize there is an emotional connection to the distinct differences in seasons that beer marketers have been shrewd in capitalizing on. For that reason, and whether or not we care to admit it, an Oktoberfest beer "tastes" better here in October than it does say, in April. Unfortunately, unless one can appreciate the fact that Oktoberfest and Marzen are brothers in different bottles, the availability a great year 'round beer is being overlooked. Obviously, there are certain beers that truly do taste the best under certain [seasonal] conditions. I just think that the Marzen deserves a little more recognition than it seems to be getting.

Here here! generally I see marzen at 'german style' breweries and they will often have a fest marzen instead of an octoberfest. (both are lagers by the way, although 'mocktoberfest' ales are getting popular in homebrewing circles and can be quite tasty)

By the way, the history behind Octoberfest is that it was a celebration of a wedding between two notable nobles and it actually takes place in September not October. go figure.

morticaixavier, you lucky @$^!%, you live in Davis CA, home of Sudwerk, home of fine lagers, home of a superb Marzen served year 'round! (I live just over an hour away... not too far.)

Keith66 said:

morticaixavier, you lucky @$^!%, you live in Davis CA, home of Sudwerk, home of fine lagers, home of a superb Marzen served year 'round! (I live just over an hour away... not too far.)

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'struth! brewed a marzen last month with fresh slurry from their tanks.

Marzen or Maerzen is the core style, that when served during the Oktoberfest season, is called Oktoberfest beer. However to actually be considered Oktoberfest beer and sold at the festival in Munich, the beer has to:

• Conform to the Reinheitsgebot, at a minimum of 13.5% Stammwürze (approximately 6% alcohol by volume)
• The beer must be brewed within the city limits of Munich.

Beers meeting these criteria may be designated Oktoberfest Beer. The breweries that can produce Oktoberfest Beer under the criteria are:

• Augustiner-Bräu
• Hacker-Pschorr-Bräu
• Löwenbräu
• Paulaner
• Spatenbräu
• Staatliches Hofbräu-München

Oktoberfest Beer is a registered Trademark by the Club of Munich Brewers. You'll often see "Oktoberfest" beer made by US breweries labeled as "Octoberfest" instead, as a result.

Pete_WNY said:

I wonder if the American beer marketers might be doing themselves a disservice not to more strongly campaign for the attributes of a Marzen? For example, a commercial "Oktoberfest" (Marzen) beer in the Northeast tends to show up mainly in the fall and consequently, sold and consumed around that time and not as much during the rest of the year. Esp. with marketing gimicks like the addition of fall colors to labels and flavorings like "pumpkin", etc.. Believe me, if your beer tasted like raw squash, you'd spit it out! Being a lifelong nor'easter, I realize there is an emotional connection to the distinct differences in seasons that beer marketers have been shrewd in capitalizing on. For that reason, and whether or not we care to admit it, an Oktoberfest beer "tastes" better here in October than it does say, in April. Unfortunately, unless one can appreciate the fact that Oktoberfest and Marzen are brothers in different bottles, the availability a great year 'round beer is being overlooked. Obviously, there are certain beers that truly do taste the best under certain [seasonal] conditions. I just think that the Marzen deserves a little more recognition than it seems to be getting.

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That's because there are other styles better suited to those other times of the year. Bockbier and Schwarzbier in Winter; Pils and Hefeweizen in the Summer, for example.

But aren't the stateside commericial "Octoberfest" breweries missing the boat by producing a super-good beer, then labeling it "Octoberfest" and promoting it for a few weeks in the fall/winter? For instance, Sam Adams' Octoberfest is available only in the fall. As for me, I enjoyed the Marzen in Germany every season of the year!

That's why I homebrew, then I can make any style during the year I want. For commercial breweries, it's about demand. If they produced it all year round, the demand would be less, because there wouldn't be any urgency to buy it. Plus for a beer like Oktoberfest, it's made for a certain time of year. Doesn't make sense to sell it during other times of the year. It'd be like selling a Christmas beer around July 4th.


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morticaixavier said:

'struth! brewed a marzen last month with fresh slurry from their tanks.

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I'm just down the street too and I had no idea they would let you do that? Or do you have an in? lol

I had the pleasure of visiting Germany for Octoberfest this past year. I ended up really loving the Marzen and Doppelbock's styles.

I was lucky enough to have a fresh Hacker-Pschorr Animator flown in fresh from Germany just last weekend and it was Fantastic!

divrguy said:

I'm just down the street too and I had no idea they would let you do that? Or do you have an in? lol

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It's something the homebrew club I belong to worked out. we have our meetings there.

Come on out and check it out if you want. Join and you can get in on the yeasty goodness!

Greenbelt Brewers Association. we meet third tuesday of each month.

morticaixavier said:

It's something the homebrew club I belong to worked out. we have our meetings there.

Come on out and check it out if you want. Join and you can get in on the yeasty goodness!

Greenbelt Brewers Association. we meet third tuesday of each month.

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Hmmm... Ya don't sayyyyy...

Why are you doing this to me? I was convinced I wanted an oktober, then I convinced myself of an IPL. Now I'm back to being stressed out. I'll have to meditate it over a beer now.

That's a no brainer for me. I love German lagers and hate the current hop craze, so Marzen it is!

Keith66 said:

morticaixavier, you lucky @$^!%, you live in Davis CA, home of Sudwerk, home of fine lagers, home of a superb Marzen served year 'round! (I live just over an hour away... not too far.)

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Oh hush. You have the Jack Russel Brewing Company even closer, and the mediocre Placerville Brewing Company in town. I know there are also breweries in Roseville, Lincoln, and Auburn... and I suspect in Jackson as well.

Im stuck with Sutter Butted and not much else.

thadius856 said:

Oh hush. You have the Jack Russel Brewing Company even closer, and the mediocre Placerville Brewing Company in town. I know there are also breweries in Roseville, Lincoln, and Auburn... and I suspect in Jackson as well.

Im stuck with Sutter Butted and not much else.

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I can't stand Jack Russell or P'ville, and those other towns take just as long to get to as Davis. (I actually live in Pollock Pines.) The ONLY ONE of all of those that has any beer I like is Sudwerk. Everyone else is a slave to the hop craze.

Keith66 said:

I can't stand Jack Russell or P'ville, and those other towns take just as long to get to as Davis. (I actually live in Pollock Pines.) The ONLY ONE of all of those that has any beer I like is Sudwerk. Everyone else is a slave to the hop craze.

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Spent close to five years in your neck of the woods. Still drop in on Pollock several times each year to visit family.

I know last time I was at Jack Russel their taplist had a scotch ale, a blueberry saison, a farmhouse ale, a seasonal fruit/vegetable beer (seems to switch between apple and pumpkin), a stout, and not one but two different reds. Their IPA had kicked and their APA was pretty balanced, even though the board showed it as mildly hoppy.

As a "slave to the hop craze" (which is a rather rude term, btw), I couldn't find a hoppy beer in the place...

Sudwerk? Meh. Their beer's alright, but nothing to write home about. They don't have anything better than the now-defunct Pyramid Brewing Company, and that's not saying a whole lot.

</derail, unsub>

Keith66 said:

That's a no brainer for me. I love German lagers and hate the current hop craze, so Marzen it is!

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+1
one of the local grocery stores here in MO has their own beer (made by point brewery) and they had a marzen last fall.....after patiently waiting a year, no dice this year. every time i'd ask, they'd just tell me "it's in the warehouse, they just haven't sent it yet". so i decided to look into brewing my own. i found that jaspers had an ale kit, but the other 2 or 3 were lager. i'd rather do it the way it's "intended" to be brewed, but right now i don't have a way to brew lagers.
as far as octoberfest beers....seems that's just a generic name they throw on anything that's pumpkin flavored.

thadius856, sorry if I came across as rude, didn't mean to. By "slave to the hop craze" I was referring to the breweries that have redirected their business toward the hopheads (not my term), which there seem to be a lot more of in the last few years. They brew what sells, which is fine, and good for business, even if the beer doesn't appeal to me. Everyone has their preference. I like beers with low bitterness, mostly German and Belgian, admittedly a narrow selection. I don't mean to be rude to those whose beer I don't particularly like. I meant "slave to the hop craze" to be light-hearted, not rude.

As for Jack Russell, you are correct that they have a pretty broad selection. And I admit I wasn't being fair to them (blame it on the maibock I was drinking last night). I used to spend a lot of time there chit-chatting with Ian when he owned the place years ago, before he sold it to Ed. I generally liked their Farmhouse and their Olde Ale. I prefer bocks to Scotches (when it comes to high gravity), have never liked stouts or fruit/veggie beers, or hoppy beers like IPAs or California-style pale ales. Again, I have a very narrow preference, I admit. In JR's defense, I haven't been there in several years, and not since I started homebrewing, so I'm probably overdue for a visit and a full tasting. I visited P'ville Brewing a couple months ago, still not wild about their beers.

Sudwerk?... I've been drinking their beers for years, and did a full tasting a few months ago. I LOVE their lagers and their heffe, not the others. Very similar to what I drank during my trip to Germany years ago. And Pyramid never made it very high on my list either.

Let me know when you'll be in town and I'll buy you a few at Jack Russell!

Now for a feeble attempt at getting back on topic:

"as far as octoberfest beers....seems that's just a generic name they throw on anything that's pumpkin flavored."

I don't think pumpkin is allowed by the Reinheitsgebot. Haven't seen a pumpkin beer from Paulaner, Spaten, etc.

morticaixavier said:

It's something the homebrew club I belong to worked out. we have our meetings there.



Come on out and check it out if you want. Join and you can get in on the yeasty goodness!



Greenbelt Brewers Association. we meet third tuesday of each month.

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I think I will drop by on one of the meetings to check it out. I'll PM you.


Cheers!

divrguy said:

I think I will drop by on one of the meetings to check it out. I'll PM you.


Cheers!

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Cool! I hope to have some Marzen for sharing this month

morticaixavier said:

Cool! I hope to have some Marzen for sharing this month

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Love to try it! I'll also bring a Paulaner Salvator (not a fake one from Bevmo...a just flown over one from Germany), a Hacker Psychorr Marzen (again real) and one of the best damm IPA's in existence.... Oh that would be mine! Might have to bring 2 they are real good!... Lol


Cheers!

Pete_WNY said:

Let us know how it turns out. Being a newbie, I'm far from being set up for lagers. After a couple more kit beers, I may try my hand at AG, unless there is a good ME kit out there somewhere. So far, I've not been able to find one.

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I don't have a cooling setup for lagers, either. I brewed it yesterday, and it's in primary now. Used a Marzen recipe brewed with Wyeast Kolsch yeast that I wanted to use up.

I'm calling it a "Marsen-style Amber Ale", and I kept the IBUs on the low side for an AM. Amber Style (~26 ibu) to barely fit into the Marsen range. So, FWIW, IBUs will be on the high end for a Marsen, but on the low end for an Amber. I'm not a big hop nut, either, and I tend more towards aroma than flavor bitterness.

I also used American rather than Euro variety hops (Centennial and Willamette), just to rebel a little more from the style! :rockin:

We've had such a seemingly long and cold winter where I am, so since I name most of my brews when I label the bottles, I'm thinking of calling this one Spring Break Marzen-style Amber, and should be a good bridge between the Oatmeal stout I just did for winter, and my light cream ale I brew for summer.

Scott