Brew shed plans - looking for suggestions

I am about to start building a brew shed that will have the following:

Walk in cooler for serving beer and storing ingredients
Ferm chamber that will be cooled by fans attached located in the wall separating the ferm chamber from the walk in.
single tier brew stand
big sink for washing stuff like brew pots
various shelves, tables etc for storage

It will be either 8' x 16' or 10' x 16' - not yet decided.

It will be attached (so to speak) to the existing detached garage

I am concerned about ventilation while brewing since I brew with propane. I live in Los Angeles so weather and cold isn't really a factor. I was planning on having a large portion of the wall behind the brew stand flip up and get supported by drop down legs that attach to the exterior wall. Think of the window on a roach coach (aka food truck). This will also allow me to easily scoop spent grains into my yard trimmings bin by just wheeling the bin next to the mash tun.

I have cold water already there in the form of a hose bib. I can probably live without hot water for now. If it seems to fit without much hassle, I thought of putting a small water heater back there in the when budget permits.

I have part of a 20 amp circuit that covers the whole back yard that is already in place there - a gfi outlet is on the back garage wall - I plan on taping into that for a few plugs to drive pumps and the window a/c unit. At some point in the future, I may upgrade this to something much bigger so I can convert to electric brewing.

Drains are a big deal - I don't have any close by and it would be major digging to get to them. I have been reading about "french drains" and this seems like it might work given how often I'll use the drains. My understanding is that a french drain is a fairly large piece of pipe with holes in it buried a few feet below ground in a trench filled with gravel. It seems like this might work pretty well if I don't try using a garbage disposal and get on of those filters for the bottoms of the drain. Anyone ever do this?

I would also like to put a floor drain under the brew stand, in the ferm chamber and in the walk-in for easy clean up.

I plan on putting some inexpensive tile down for flooring. I'll also use tile up the sides of the walls a few inches and perhaps a sort of back splash in back of the brew stand for the portion that does not flip up.

For lighting - I plan on over head lights - whatever is on sale at the time.

I will install my simple carbon water filter I have in place already. I'll plump a water line directly above the mash tun and hlt.

The serving kegs will have beer line running through the wall to the garage. I plan on putting some kind of wall mounted tap system with a drip tray that drains to the french drain.

I will use a plastic conical fermenter and buckets to ferment in. I already have these but I have only used the conical a few times as I don't have any temp control for it. I use a chest freezer with a ranco to ferment in buckets right now.

I would like to use a stainless immersion coil for the fermenters like some have documented here already. Since I will have the ferm chamber temp controlled (probably keep it in the low 60s), it shouldn't have to work too hard. I may just try putting a bucket of glycol or even water in the walk-in with a pump to cool the fermenter below the temp of the ferm chamber. I can also adjust the ferm chamber temp if I'm doing a lager or something that needs a lower temp. This way the coil doesn't have to cool as much.

I want to control the walk in, ferm chamber and two fermenter coils with my bcs.

I don't mean to ramble but I wanted to try and list everything out and see if anyone had a suggestion for something I missed.

I have a simple diagram of what I'm thinking of so you can visualize the layout.

Thanks

I would consider finding a used hood for ventilation over an open window/wall, mainly due to night-time bug issues (I know, California is desert and doesn't have the same amount of bugs like we do out here on the right coast, but still...).

Another idea that I'm kicking around right now is the ability to reclaim chilling water run-off to use later for clean-up. Since I'm pumpin with a pond pump through the plate chiller, I have the ability to direct it to any location with enough hose.

Mischief_Brewing said:

I would consider finding a used hood for ventilation over an open window/wall, mainly due to night-time bug issues (I know, California is desert and doesn't have the same amount of bugs like we do out here on the right coast, but still...).

Another idea that I'm kicking around right now is the ability to reclaim chilling water run-off to use later for clean-up. Since I'm pumpin with a pond pump through the plate chiller, I have the ability to direct it to any location with enough hose.

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Bugs really aren't an issue out here - I spent a lot of time in Virginia when I was growing up - I remember what the critters were like..

I currently use an immersion chiller and a lot of the time I put the initial water that is pretty hot back in the hlt for cleaning.

What thickness walls and what R-value are you going for with the walk-in? I'm almost done with plans for mine but am waiting for this winter to end before breaking ground. 6 more inches of snow expected Monday...

I agree with the other person about putting up a used hood for ventilation with an exhaust fan. That would be the best way to do it if you can for propane inside. Are you using city water or well water? If you are using well water, I would add an inline house filter before your water filter you have already to help with any sediment.

As far as French drains, we have one of those in our backyard, that our house gutters drain into and it goes all way to the back of our yard pretty much.

Gonna' brew, inside the walk in cooler?



Edit :Never mind, I was going on what I got from your text, and not the pic.

It looks like you're setting your taps inside the garage? I think I'd set my servings kegs along that bottom wall shared by the garage. That way you are more able to make your lines of equal length and won't have to stretch your lines too far.

You may also want to do what I'm doing right now. I'm converting my HLT to electric. You could run a 20A 240V outlet to that area and use a 4500W element in your HLT. That one be one less set of propane fumes to worry about.

jflongo said:

You may also want to do what I'm doing right now. I'm converting my HLT to electric. You could run a 20A 240V outlet to that area and use a 4500W element in your HLT. That one be one less set of propane fumes to worry about.

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This would involve trenching in new conduit and wire from the main house where the panel is located. More than I want to tackle right now.

Some time in the future I will most likely convert to all electric sort of the Kai's setup. For now - I just want to keep the propane setup I have.

It does bring up something else - now would be a good time to put all the wiring in the walls so it's that much easier when I do convert to electric brewing.

Ayuir said:

It looks like you're setting your taps inside the garage? I think I'd set my servings kegs along that bottom wall shared by the garage. That way you are more able to make your lines of equal length and won't have to stretch your lines too far.

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I may end up doing that - I was also thinking of doing a shelf somewhere once I get everything set up so the serving kegs are easy to mess with.

Mischief_Brewing said:

What thickness walls and what R-value are you going for with the walk-in? I'm almost done with plans for mine but am waiting for this winter to end before breaking ground. 6 more inches of snow expected Monday...

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I am not sure yet on this - I guess the answer is "as much as possible". I was actually going to ask this very question - what do you suggest? 3", 5" I was planning on using home depot 4'x8' insulation or shopping craigslist for walk in cooler panels and just putting those up.

Patirck said:

This would involve trenching in new conduit and wire from the main house where the panel is located. More than I want to tackle right now.

Some time in the future I will most likely convert to all electric sort of the Kai's setup. For now - I just want to keep the propane setup I have.

It does bring up something else - now would be a good time to put all the wiring in the walls so it's that much easier when I do convert to electric brewing.

Click to expand...

If I were you also, you might as well just put a subpanel in this area. You could put a 50 or 60Amp break in your house panel, run 6 gauge wire from their to this new subpanel. Then when you want to add more electricity it will be much easier.

Sounds like a cool project but I don't think you've put enough thought into your drains and waste water.

A French drain may work but I think you are underestimating how much water it will take or over estimating how well you think it will work.

Honestly I think you are going to have one continuously soggy yard.

Not to mention, how do you plan on handling chemicals, cleaners, etc that will inevitably wind up in the water? It is against the law to simply let this stuff run off into the ground, even of it is on your own property


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Patirck said:

I am not sure yet on this - I guess the answer is "as much as possible". I was actually going to ask this very question - what do you suggest? 3", 5" I was planning on using home depot 4'x8' insulation or shopping craigslist for walk in cooler panels and just putting those up.

Click to expand...

I'm looking at using 2x6 for my walls and a combination of panels and fiberglass bats to get to R-20 at a minimum. The door is the challenge. The build by irenzrt or whatever his username is in Arizona is a bit overkill, but done properly. Just way expensive.


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duboman said:

Sounds like a cool project but I don't think you've put enough thought into your drains and waste water.

A French drain may work but I think you are underestimating how much water it will take or over estimating how well you think it will work.

Honestly I think you are going to have one continuously soggy yard.

Not to mention, how do you plan on handling chemicals, cleaners, etc that will inevitably wind up in the water? It is against the law to simply let this stuff run off into the ground, even of it is on your own property


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This is a big deal for me - I really, REALLY want a big sink so I can wash everything there - I'm sick of hauling stuff to the kitchen (which is in the front of the house mind you), washing, making a big mess with water all over (my wife loves this) and then hauling it all back.

I am not sure how to estimate the need here in terms of drain capacity. It is pretty much impossible to tie this into my existing drain - it is at least 60 feet away and there is a slope to deal with.

With the french drain, its my understanding from reading online a bit that it goes like this:

I dig a trench - say 18 inches wide and 3 feet deep by however long (I am thinking somewhere in the 10-12 foot range)
Fill it with 18" (about half way) of gravel or small rock
lay the 4"-6"drain pipe with the holes down
cover the pipe with more rock/gravel, then put the dirt on top of the top layer of gravel which is above the pipe.

I did a quick check of the math and my thinking is that I would have an immediate drain capacity of about 530 gallons. This is the volume of a 3' (width of the trench) x 10'-12' (length of the trench) x about 2' (gravel and pipe). Obviously, these are fairly rough numbers but is 500 gallons enough? I don't know how long it would take to drain out the trench and into the ground below, but given that I really only use it in earnest when I brew (once or twice a month) I think this would do the trick.

It doesn't address the chemical part though and that is a concern. I currently use oxy clean, star-san and occasionally bar keepers' friend. I'm sure there are a few other things but that is the vast majority of what would go down this drain. Come to think of it - I really only use oxy clean when cleaning kegs and my keg washer probably goes through 3 gallons or so when I clean a batch of kegs. When I clean brew pots, its mostly just water.

Mischief_Brewing said:

I'm looking at using 2x6 for my walls and a combination of panels and fiberglass bats to get to R-20 at a minimum. The door is the challenge. The build by irenzrt or whatever his username is in Arizona is a bit overkill, but done properly. Just way expensive.


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Another factor to consider for this is that there is really only outside wall - and it faces east but is fairly close to a few tall trees so it gets a little morning sun but thats it.

Just so you know the French drain for my gutters, is probably about 80 feet long. Granted they probably installed this when the house was built and the yard was all dirt, so maybe that's why they made it so long to put it as far back as they could.

Patirck said:

This is a big deal for me - I really, REALLY want a big sink so I can wash everything there - I'm sick of hauling stuff to the kitchen (which is in the front of the house mind you), washing, making a big mess with water all over (my wife loves this) and then hauling it all back.

I am not sure how to estimate the need here in terms of drain capacity. It is pretty much impossible to tie this into my existing drain - it is at least 60 feet away and there is a slope to deal with.

With the french drain, its my understanding from reading online a bit that it goes like this:

I dig a trench - say 18 inches wide and 3 feet deep by however long (I am thinking somewhere in the 10-12 foot range)
Fill it with 18" (about half way) of gravel or small rock
lay the 4"-6"drain pipe with the holes down
cover the pipe with more rock/gravel, then put the dirt on top of the top layer of gravel which is above the pipe.

I did a quick check of the math and my thinking is that I would have an immediate drain capacity of about 530 gallons. This is the volume of a 3' (width of the trench) x 10'-12' (length of the trench) x about 2' (gravel and pipe). Obviously, these are fairly rough numbers but is 500 gallons enough? I don't know how long it would take to drain out the trench and into the ground below, but given that I really only use it in earnest when I brew (once or twice a month) I think this would do the trick.

It doesn't address the chemical part though and that is a concern. I currently use oxy clean, star-san and occasionally bar keepers' friend. I'm sure there are a few other things but that is the vast majority of what would go down this drain. Come to think of it - I really only use oxy clean when cleaning kegs and my keg washer probably goes through 3 gallons or so when I clean a batch of kegs. When I clean brew pots, its mostly just water.

Click to expand...

So there are limiting factors as to the effectiveness of a french drain, the primary one being the soil composition around the excavation. If you have heavy clay soil or less permeable soil then the water that collects in the drain area will dissipate much more slowly than say, a yard composed of more permeable, sand/loam type soil. If you have soil types of the former than the drain area needs to be much larger to account for the slow percolation.

Another factor to take into account is what is growing around the drain like trees, grass, shrubs, etc. You might be creating an environment that will no longer be conducive to these varieties of plants, particularly the concern I voiced regarding chemicals. The root systems of these plants will begin to search for this newly available water source and seek it out readily. Anything other than water will also be taken up by the plants. What might be rendered safe for brewing purposes may not be safe for plant material or your lawn, etc.

Third, type of stone used. If you you a limestone based gravel it will cause issues for the plants as well. Limestone, in abundance can be toxic to certain plants, many in fact.

Fourth. French drains are not permanent. Over time, the permeable gaps in the gravel will begin to fill with residual sediment and it will begin to lose its effectiveness and permeability. Also, if there are large trees in the area those roots will also begin to impede the drainage area as well.

I'm not saying that this system won't work for you but there are several long term factors you need to consider before simply digging a huge trench through your yard

I'm with duboman, I'd be a bit concerned about a French drain for all the reasons he cited. Also, does your 530 gallon calculation account for the water displaced by the gravel itself? Have u considered just plumbing your brew sink with a hose that can be run into a house sink on brew days. A little ghetto but it could save a lot if headaches... U could also run it onto the lawn when you're not using chemicals...

Good luck sounds like a great project.

duboman said:

I'm not saying that this system won't work for you but there are several long term factors you need to consider before simply digging a huge trench through your yard

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So is there another option for a homebrew drainage system? (pun intended).

I may not have as much of a need as I thought. The main things I will use the drain for:

When I brew - cleaning pots. If I go to a sprayball and pump set up - sort of a clean in place, the amount of water and cleaner goes way down - a few gallons. I would probably use more than this for rinsing the pots afterwords.

Cleaning kegs - as I mentioned above - I use a pump and a home made spray ball made from pvc with a bunch of holes drilled in it - this uses a few gallons of oxy clean - then say two or three times that in plain water to rinse. And I only do this every once in a while when I have 3 or 4 kegs to clean.

Drip tray drain - this is ongoing and I hopefully won't waste too much beer but I also want to pour hot water and perhaps a little oxy-clean every once in a while to clean the drip tray and drain line.

Floor drain under brew setup - if I need to clean up any spills while brewing or kegging or racking - this would be very occasional as well (I hope).

Given my limited needs, I am wondering if it might be better to simply direct the drain to the grassy area with a hose or pvc and put a bucket there to catch stuff if I'm using something that I don't want to end up on the ground (oxy clean or barkeepers friend). It would also save me a significant amount of work (no big trench to dig). If it didn't work - I could still try the trench later and tie it in the drains piped in under the floor that are connected to the sink, floor drain and drip tray.

Legally speaking, any such waste water should be tapped directly into your home's sewer line, read permits and plumbers.


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Just put in a sump pit and pump outside or under your shed for your drains to run into. Then use a garden hose for your discharge line. You could hang the hose on the side of the shed, just like a garden hose, when not brewing. I don't imagine freezing is a big problem in Glendale, so you could also bury the garden hose a few inches under the surface.


Edit Also you never really have enough outlets, so when wiring, add about 25% to the outlets you think you want or need.

I put a couple of these in the ground for my water filtration system to backwash into. They work realy well and require less of a footprint then A same volume dry well. You can buy as many as you need for water volume, they just lock together and get secured with screws. I picked them up at a local plumbing supply store.

Airplanedoc said:

Just put in a sump pit and pump outside or under your shed for your drains to run into. Then use a garden hose for your discharge line. You could hang the hose on the side of the shed, just like a garden hose, when not brewing. I don't imagine freezing is a big problem in Glendale, so you could also bury the garden hose a few inches under the surface.


Edit Also you never really have enough outlets, so when wiring, add about 25% to the outlets you think you want or need.

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This seems like an awfully simple solution - especially since my need for a lot of drainage is only there when I am brewing or cleaning pots/kegs. The rest of the time its just a drip tray for 7 taps and I don't plan on spilling that much beer.

My original idea was a sump pump in a storage tub under the sink. Then I upgraded my idea to the outdoor sump pit.


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Airplanedoc said:

My original idea was a sump pump in a storage tub under the sink. Then I upgraded my idea to the outdoor sump pit.


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This seems like a good place to start. I can have a drain pipe coming out of the shed "crawlspace" into a tub and do a sump pump out of that. If I want to change it in the future - I just trench in a connection from that drain pipe.