Chloramine Off Flavors in Denver

I've read a lot of threads about removing Chloramine from brewing water to avoid off flavors. I'm wondering if anyone has actually had this problem in Denver (who uses Chloramine), resolved with with a filter or Campden tablets, and can speak the the off flavors they were getting. I'm trying to diagnose a beer, and don't really get band-aid flavors and am trying to see if this is it.

I'm in Atlanta where chloramine is used as well. I use an RO filter. Seems to do the trick. I got it for drinking water for the family but use it for brewing too.

We definitely have enough chloroamine in Denver water to produce noticeable off flavors. For that reason, I've been using a filter and Campden for a while now, and have never had them pop back up. In my couple of beers that had them many years ago, definitely was a typical band-aid flavor.

Remember, chloramine removal with an activated carbon filter REQUIRES a very slow flow rate in order for the chloramine to have time to react fully with the carbon. For the typical 10 inch undersink filters, the flow rate needs to be less than a tenth of a gallon per minute to remove chloramine. The carbon filter in RO systems typically see very low flow rates on that magnitude and that is one reason that they remove chloramine effectively. For higher capacity RO systems, you sometimes see tandem 10 inch carbon filters or the 20 inch filters so that the contact time is sufficient.

By the way, if the water has pond scum or earthy flavor or aroma, those contaminants can also be removed with the carbon filtration. However, they also need to be in contact with the carbon for a similar time as chloramine. So 0.1 gal/min is the flow rate you need to aim for.

I know, that flow rate sucks. Grass grows quicker than that...but that is what you need to get those contaminants out of the water.

Yeah, I definitely don't adhere to those low flow rates like I know I should. That's why I still use a pinch of Campden in addition to the carbon filter. I use about a quarter of the recommended dosage. Since I started using this combination about five years ago, I haven't had chlorophenols rear their ugly heads again.

Thanks for all of the responses, I guess what I'm looking for is a little more of a description of what it tasted like before you fixed it with Campden or filter. I've read pages and pages about how it could theoretically impact your beer but not many actual notes from people who have been impacted. You said it tasted like Band-Aid, but was it very pronounced or more subdued. Also, were there certain styles that it was worse in?

For example, the IPA I brewed really tastes great but the dubbel seems like there is something off in it. I'm not sure if it just needs more time in the bottle or if there is something else going on. Chloramine is all I can come up with. I control fermentation temp, my efficiency is dialed in, I use water spreadsheets to get my ph close, etc.

Thanks Again

moti mo, You are a wise man. I mentioned those low flow rates to point out how ridiculous they are. Campden is a MUCH quicker and easier option. But they don't remove the pond scum! So some brewers have no choice.

Douglefish said:

Thanks for all of the responses, I guess what I'm looking for is a little more of a description of what it tasted like before you fixed it with Campden or filter. I've read pages and pages about how it could theoretically impact your beer but not many actual notes from people who have been impacted. You said it tasted like Band-Aid, but was it very pronounced or more subdued. Also, were there certain styles that it was worse in?

For example, the IPA I brewed really tastes great but the dubbel seems like there is something off in it. I'm not sure if it just needs more time in the bottle or if there is something else going on. Chloramine is all I can come up with. I control fermentation temp, my efficiency is dialed in, I use water spreadsheets to get my ph close, etc.

Thanks Again

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I don't have a ton of data on how the off-flavor varied with style because I only really experienced it on two beers before I realized I needed to figure out how to get rid of it for good. I had it on two Belgian style ales, one light and one dark. I don't know that the fact that I used Belgian yeast necessarily had anything to do with it, since I brew Belgians more than any other style. I think that its hard to predict when you'll have a problem with cholorophenols b/c the mash chemistry and fermentation chemistry is complicated and many factors can contribute. You may have a beer where they're incredibly pronounced and then brew the same beer later and not notice them.

Another factor in Denver is that we get our water from 3 different treatment plants - Foothills, Moffat, and Marston - and the mix between the 3 can vary depending on a number of factors. So its possible that the exact water chemistry you're dealing with on any given brew day is slightly different than the last. So maybe this has an effect as well on the production of chlorophenols, I don't know.

One thing that I do know for one of the beers, where the chlorophenols were most prominent, is that I used washed yeast from a previous beer that was quite hoppy. I assume that wasn't the happiest yeast in the world, and that I was starting with a less-than-ideal pitch, even though I did a reasonable starter. I'm willing to bet that starting with stressed yeast had some impact on the pronounced chlorphenol production that I found for that beer, but its only one data point so I can't say for certain. This beer was also a bit dry and somewhat astringent, so I think that amplified the perception of the chlorophenols as well. So, a lot of factors...

Douglefish said:

Thanks for all of the responses, I guess what I'm looking for is a little more of a description of what it tasted like before you fixed it with Campden or filter. I've read pages and pages about how it could theoretically impact your beer but not many actual notes from people who have been impacted. You said it tasted like Band-Aid, but was it very pronounced or more subdued. Also, were there certain styles that it was worse in?

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I have a very good description for the flavor of Chloramine. Take a glass and put a swimming pool liner in it. Pour beer in to that glass and drink. It tastes exactly like that. I have noticed that lighter beers suffer the most. Darker beers may mask it a little more but I could never get that flavor out of the beer.

My experience with carbon block indicates that it filters chloramine way better than .1 gal/min.

I’m rocking a KX CTO+ .5 micron filter at 1 gal/min. 3ppm total chloramine comes out as undetectable out (<.1ppm.) with total chlorine test strips.

I realize this is anecdotal, but it is repeatable.

Martin, data?

Wynne, there are special activated carbon materials that are optimized for chloramine removal. So I'm not surprised to hear your result. However, the thing about activated carbon media is that the higher you take the flow rate, the sooner you will have break-through of the contaminant. So if you flow at 5 gpm, you might only produce a few hundred gallons before getting break-through, while if you flow at 1 gpm that production might be a 1000 gallons. It can go even higher when the flow rate is further reduced.

I realize there are filters especially designed to remove chloramine. Mine isn’t one of them. I get 1 gal/min with my kitchen faucet.

When I got the replacement filter the vendor sent me some test strips. I used them on
1. My old (7 years) filter
2. The new one
3. Distilled water
4. RO water
The indications were all identical.

Right out of the tap it read 3 ppm. The strips were in a sealed container, expiration 9/14. They are LaMotte total chlorine.

Martin keeps saying .1 gal/min. I wonder where he gets that.

I can second the pool-liner comment. My off flavors never reached the intensity of a real Band-aid, but it was definitely there. Mine were more like the smell of a new plastic car model, when you snapped the parts off the injection plastic frame... Or a very subtle acrylic clear coat spray paint. Definitely a "plastic" sort of smell, just behind just behind the bitterness of the hops, and twists the malty sweetness into something just not quite right. Best. I can describe.

I ruined both a belgian blond and an IPA... Harder to detect with the IPA, but it was definitely there and fouled the entire batch.

Sucking a band-aid is far more succinct and gross.Maybe sucking the bandaid paper wrappers closer?