A Career in Brewing?

I'm really not sure if this is the proper forum or not, so please feel free to move it as necessary.

I've been Homebrewing for about two years now and I've recently toyed around with the idea of maybe pursuing a career in beer. I currently have a great job that I'm very fond of, but the stability of my industry is a bit suspect at times and I'm looking for potential back up plans in case something were to ever go wrong. It seems that the brewing industry is getting bigger and bigger every year and it's something that I have a lot of interest in, so I figured I'd look into it.

I'd love to hear from some of the professional brewers or any of you that might have personal information or resources on the topic. Here are some of the specifics I'm most interested in hearing about...

Compensation - Probably my biggest concern since I have a family to support. My assumption is that the pay maybe isn't so great just starting out, but I'd love to be proven wrong here!

Stability - While the industry seems to continue to grow, I can't help but think that we might be close to some sort of craft beer bubble burst with the crazy number of breweries and brewpubs opening every year. Curious what people in the industry think have to say about this.

Education - At this point I'm just working off my casual homebrewing knowledge, which i'm sure is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm curious how important Brewing Education is relating to getting your foot in the door at a brewery. What all should you be expected to know? Should I look into any certification programs or courses? How much of it is just learning on the job?

General information and tips - Any books, blogs, websites or other resources you might have relating to becoming a brewer and getting a job in the industry are very much appreciated.

Thanks again!

a lot of excellent breweries in your area, are you sure you want to dive in that pool?

don't know what the situation is in Denver, but around here you can't swing a dead lawyer without hitting a brewery.

what we need are home brew supply stores.

A huge decision. If you decide to do this, I'd say try to start small and keep your current job. You may find the $ you're making w/ your brewery/brewery job isn't what you expected, isn't as enjoyable now that it's a "job", etc. If that happens, you have your job still.

Now it's certainly possible that your brewery/new job takes off, and you're able to make a career. But if not, no real harm done.

Also - make sure you have LOT'S more $ than you think you actually need to start your career in beer, if starting a business is your goal.

At this point it's just something I'm researching so I have a better idea of what I'd be getting myself into if I ever decided to take the plunge. From an outsider, it seems that Denver's brewing operations continue to grow every year. There always seems to be a new brewery or brew pub opening every few weeks. I imagine that's a good thing for someone like me who might be interested in a career in brewing, but it probably also means the competition is just that much tougher.

GrogNerd said:

a lot of excellent breweries in your area, are you sure you want to dive in that pool?

don't know what the situation is in Denver, but around here you can't swing a dead lawyer without hitting a brewery.

what we need are home brew supply stores.

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hellawaits77 said:

A huge decision. If you decide to do this, I'd say try to start small and keep your current job. You may find the $ you're making w/ your brewery/brewery job isn't what you expected, isn't as enjoyable now that it's a "job", etc. If that happens, you have your job still.

Now it's certainly possible that your brewery/new job takes off, and you're able to make a career. But if not, no real harm done.

Also - make sure you have LOT'S more $ than you think you actually need to start your career in beer, if starting a business is your goal.

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Appreciate the insight! I've kicked around the idea of maybe getting a part time job at a brewery on the weekends, but I don't know that my current schedule would really allow for me to do something like that, or if brewery would even be interested in someone who can only be there part time. I think once I've done a bit more research I might see about reaching out to local breweries to pick their brains about it a bit.

Currently I have no plans or desire to open up my own business. I'm more interested in just getting my foot in the door first and seeing what it's all about.

I have a couple of friends who left "real jobs" to work in a brewery. According to one of them, he works long days, does physically demanding labor, and has had a couple of minor injuries (like burns), for much less pay.

He loves it, and isn't sorry, but it means some stress on his family due being gone longer, sometimes 14 hours a day, and making less money.

Working in a brewery is grunt work. It may be rewarding to follow your passion, but it's pretty much industrial cleaning and hauling heavy things around. It's definitely not a glamorous job!

Check out the "Going Pro" forum on the American Homebrewers Association website.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?board=190.0

It's a dedicated forum so you should find more concentrated information in one place. There are a number of people there asking the same questions you might be wondering about and there are professional brewers participating all the time. You'll also see posts from guys like you who have actually made the jump and are in the early stages. Hope it helps.

Yooper said:

I have a couple of friends who left "real jobs" to work in a brewery. According to one of them, he works long days, does physically demanding labor, and has had a couple of minor injuries (like burns), for much less pay.

He loves it, and isn't sorry, but it means some stress on his family due being gone longer, sometimes 14 hours a day, and making less money.

Working in a brewery is grunt work. It may be rewarding to follow your passion, but it's pretty much industrial cleaning and hauling heavy things around. It's definitely not a glamorous job!

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That's great information! I think that a lot of guys (like myself) think of working in a brewery and getting to be the guy making beer and maybe don't think of some of the less glamorous stuff like cleaning, sanitizing and prep work (the same things we all sort of hate in Homebrewing).

carton132 said:

Check out the "Going Pro" forum on the American Homebrewers Association website.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?board=190.0

It's a dedicated forum so you should find more concentrated information in one place. There are a number of people there asking the same questions you might be wondering about and there are professional brewers participating all the time. You'll also see posts from guys like you who have actually made the jump and are in the early stages. Hope it helps.

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Awesome resource, thanks so much! I was sort of looking for something like this here. Curious if maybe there should be or would be any interest in a Professional Brewing section of the forums.

Good luck.

I think that is on my list of dream jobs behind Photographer for Playboy and Sportscar Test Driver.

I think alot of people entertain this idea but quickly realize that they would be leaving their cushy white-collar jobs with nice compensation and benefits to carry 55 lb bags of grain on their shoulders up a ladder to empty into the mash tun, followed by slopping wet, heavy grain out of said mash tun. Oh yeah, and it pays $10/hour!

broadbill said:

I think alot of people entertain this idea but quickly realize that they would be leaving their cushy white-collar jobs with nice compensation and benefits to carry 55 lb bags of grain on their shoulders up a ladder to empty into the mash tun, followed by slopping wet, heavy grain out of said mash tun. Oh yeah, and it pays $10/hour!

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And you wear knee-high rubber boats all the time, and spend most of the day cleaning/hosing things.

I love homebrewing, but I'm way too old and lazy to do it professionally! I do like to "help" my friends in their breweries, though.

I was just reading this article this morning.

Getting a Boot In the Brewhouse Door

There is a nano brewery here in Chicago that has a volunteer list. You can go in work for "free" and see what its like doing the work. One of my buds goes there once a week now after his 9-5 and puts in 1 night a week. Say's is lot of hard work, late night, tired but its also a lot of fun.

broadbill said:

I think alot of people entertain this idea but quickly realize that they would be leaving their cushy white-collar jobs with nice compensation and benefits to carry 55 lb bags of grain on their shoulders up a ladder to empty into the mash tun, followed by slopping wet, heavy grain out of said mash tun. Oh yeah, and it pays $10/hour!

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Heh, ya...I have no delusions that it will somehow be as easy as my current, cushy desk job but I think that's actually one of the aspects that sort of interests me.

I get asked sometimes about the possibility of opening a brewery when I eventually retire from my current white-collar profession (which I love and enjoy). My response is always, "why would I want to do that and take all of the fun out of brewing beer?" I'm afraid that it really would.

our brew club was invited to taste the first batch at Beltway Brewing, a brand new contract brewer in my hometown and now the closest brewery to my house.

510 bbl capacity and we asked how much it cost to build and equip; $1 million to build, $1 million in equipment

I think in Denver opening a contract brewery would be a great way to go. There's so many breweries here struggling to keep up with capacity. Seems like it should work.

a study shows that 61% (not 90 as the myth goes) of all new restaurants fail within 3 years. i would be shocked if new breweries were better than that, i would assume they are worse. "craft beer" is a fad right now, and it's always a huge mistake to get into a fad when it's booming.

About 6 months ago I left a career of 8 1/2 years for a job as a pro brewer. As other have pointed out its a physically demanding job and the pay is not much. I couldn't be happier but I am also in a unique position with a very supporting spouse. You'll spend lots of time hauling hoses, grain, dangerous chemicals, heavy kegs and scrubbing floors before you'll get "to be the guy making beer". I would never discourage anyone from pursuing a career in brewing but it is definitely not a job for everyone. I brew on a 50 bbl system and it is nothing at all like brewing at home. It's a lot of time spent in awkward positions in environments that are extremely hot or extremely cold. Caustic soda and acids will burn you at some point, you will smash your feet while wearing rubber boots and you will hit your head on more pieces of expensive stainless than you could ever imagine. At the end of a long shift it does make the beer taste better than any you've ever had before but it is not a job everyone will last in. As far as education goes, a strong desire to work hard and learn will only take you so far. I am currently juggling college part time to satisfy the pre requisites to start brewing school in January as well as spending over 50 hours a week in the brewery. Again I am not poo pooing anyone that wants to do this for a living and my experience in a production brewery is not the same as someone in a small brewpub or nano.

If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Cheers!

I know certain college universities offer degree programs in brewing now. This is probably the result of a very fast growing market. I live about 2 miles from Lagunitas Brewery. I am tempted to ask if they have an internship position available. This may be a good way to get your foot in the door.

I used to make 45k/yr. Now I work for a bar/brewery and am currently doing two months of free work in the brewery before I even begin to get paid. Once I start getting paid it will start at 8.50$/hr. You are going to get paid pennies for a lot of hard work. It's certainly not for everyone, but I'm enjoying it.

casesensative, can I ask if you had any prior experience or education in (large scale) brewing before taking this position, or are these two months sort of an internship to show you the ropes?

Internship. Two years previous homebrewing experience. I also had to email them about 6 times trying to apply and had to work in their retail shop before even getting into the brewery. It is VERY hard to get into a brewery with just homebrewing experience. I think I just got lucky and showed lots of enthusiasm and persistance. I'd tried a few times before with lots of persistance to no avail. I'm enjoying it and I'm trying to use it to gain experience for future endevours, but if I were you. I would stick with your current job and not be poor. You could always save up money and use your money in some way to get into the industry, maybe open something small or invest in someone elses idea. I like being in the brewery, but homebrewing is much more fun because it allows much more creative freedom. I honestly think you would probably be happier having a job making nice money and then using that money to trick out a homebrewing setup and keep brewing at home for fun.

FastAndy said:

About 6 months ago I left a career of 8 1/2 years for a job as a pro brewer. As other have pointed out its a physically demanding job and the pay is not much. I couldn't be happier but I am also in a unique position with a very supporting spouse. You'll spend lots of time hauling hoses, grain, dangerous chemicals, heavy kegs and scrubbing floors before you'll get "to be the guy making beer". I would never discourage anyone from pursuing a career in brewing but it is definitely not a job for everyone. I brew on a 50 bbl system and it is nothing at all like brewing at home. It's a lot of time spent in awkward positions in environments that are extremely hot or extremely cold. Caustic soda and acids will burn you at some point, you will smash your feet while wearing rubber boots and you will hit your head on more pieces of expensive stainless than you could ever imagine. At the end of a long shift it does make the beer taste better than any you've ever had before but it is not a job everyone will last in. As far as education goes, a strong desire to work hard and learn will only take you so far. I am currently juggling college part time to satisfy the pre requisites to start brewing school in January as well as spending over 50 hours a week in the brewery. Again I am not poo pooing anyone that wants to do this for a living and my experience in a production brewery is not the same as someone in a small brewpub or nano.

If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Cheers!

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That's an awesome story! Are you getting a chance to make any beer now or are you still paying your dues?

I honestly think I could handle the transition and the challenges, but I'm not sure I could afford to do something like that of my own choice at this point. I don't know that moving to a job paying roughly $10 an hour would be a responsible thing to do while I'm trying to support my family. Again, if it were the only option I had I'd maybe jump on it. I've asked some friends of friends who are brewers and one of them gave me probably the most sobering response of, "Brewers make beer, not money." I think it's fantastic to get to do something you love everyday but I don't know If I could make the financials really add up and it doesn't appear to be an industry where you could just jump into a middle tier position with better pay before you pay your dues at the bottom.

Jablestein said:

That's an awesome story! Are you getting a chance to make any beer now or are you still paying your dues?

I honestly think I could handle the transition and the challenges, but I'm not sure I could afford to do something like that of my own choice at this point. I don't know that moving to a job paying roughly $10 an hour would be a responsible thing to do while I'm trying to support my family. Again, if it were the only option I had I'd maybe jump on it. I've asked some friends of friends who are brewers and one of them gave me probably the most sobering response of, "Brewers make beer, not money." I think it's fantastic to get to do something you love everyday but I don't know If I could make the financials really add up and it doesn't appear to be an industry where you could just jump into a middle tier position with better pay before you pay your dues at the bottom.

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We usually brew 250-350 bbls a week and depending on how busy the service yard or cellar is I brew at least two days a week now. I totally understand the financial hurdle. I'm lucky to be in a slightly different situation with a spouse that was ok with my decision to leave a $50k salary at job I hated for something I truly enjoy.

Cheers

Jablestein said:

I honestly think I could handle the transition and the challenges, but I'm not sure I could afford to do something like that of my own choice at this point. I don't know that moving to a job paying roughly $10 an hour would be a responsible thing to do while I'm trying to support my family. Again, if it were the only option I had I'd maybe jump on it. I've asked some friends of friends who are brewers and one of them gave me probably the most sobering response of, "Brewers make beer, not money." I think it's fantastic to get to do something you love everyday but I don't know If I could make the financials really add up and it doesn't appear to be an industry where you could just jump into a middle tier position with better pay before you pay your dues at the bottom.

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In reading these type threads for a while it doesn't appear that a "middle tier position" really exists. There is the head brewer, maybe an assistant brewer, then the people who haul around 50 pound sacks of grain, kegs, and clean, clean, clean, clean.

I live in Virginia where out in the country you can't throw a rock without hitting a winery. It's getting to be that way with breweries too. It's extremely serene and pretty out there and we love going, and it seems like owning/operating one of those wineries would be the best job ever. But as a CPA I've always been really curious if they make any money. I'd love to get a look at their financial statements. I bet it's mostly a labor of love, not highly profitable unless you get into heavy distribution. I imagine breweries are the same way.

Reminds me of the guy who loved camping so much he bought a campground. hmm.

If this is really your passion and you can handle the minimum pay, I wouldn't discourage it.
But without a brewing education, you'll be lugging grain and cleaning kettles.
To me, homebrewing is much more entertaining, satisfying, and glamorous.
Armed with a basic knowledge of homebrewing, it will be a very long time before you actually design and perfect any recipes - all of the things you're doing now as a homebrewer.

VirginiaHops1 said:

I live in Virginia where out in the country you can't throw a rock without hitting a winery. It's getting to be that way with breweries too. It's extremely serene and pretty out there and we love going, and it seems like owning/operating one of those wineries would be the best job ever. But as a CPA I've always been really curious if they make any money. I'd love to get a look at their financial statements. I bet it's mostly a labor of love, not highly profitable unless you get into heavy distribution. I imagine breweries are the same way.

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Maybe not anymore, but 14 years ago I talked to a winery owner in Eastern PA, and he claimed making $50k an acre. Only growing p@t would yield a better return he said. Their wine sold for ~$13-20+ a bottle at the time. Now the $50k is not net, there's tons of expenses, equipment, and overhead, but that was from the wine he sold.

VirginiaHops1 said:

I live in Virginia where out in the country you can't throw a rock without hitting a winery. It's getting to be that way with breweries too. It's extremely serene and pretty out there and we love going, and it seems like owning/operating one of those wineries would be the best job ever. But as a CPA I've always been really curious if they make any money. I'd love to get a look at their financial statements. I bet it's mostly a labor of love, not highly profitable unless you get into heavy distribution. I imagine breweries are the same way.

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I was just talking to my loan officer friend last night about this topic. He has seen a good number of loan applications for small breweries and often recommends against giving the loan based on the submissions (sometimes he gets over-ruled but that's banking). He talked about how on the front-end it seems like a lot of applicants are in his words trying to NOT make money. I am curious if this is due to the fact that many of these home brewers are trying to get in the game without any idea about revenue streams.

His gripes include (reminder this is from the perspective of someone trying to get their money paid back on time):

The brewery being open strange hours (2-4 Monday thru Thursday and then 4-10 Friday etc, confusing and not desirable for good customer retention).

Not making full use of revenue options i.e. not serving food, having minimal retail/keg distribution etc.

Essentially focusing all their effort on the back-end (the brewery itself) as far as expenditures without considering front-end expenses (and the revenue they can create).

Another one addressed by some of the folks with first-hand experience is the unfortunate fact that many small breweries don't start with enough capital to handle the payroll that they require for their operation.

They'll throw a bartender behind the bar sure and hire some guys to clean kegs and haul grain but many in our area don't consider having even a small prep space for food to at least be able to provide the essentials. It is a fact that when people drink, they eat, and visa versa. Why so many breweries throw this option out the window as too expensive or too this or too that is beyond me. If you open a restaurant and don't get a liquor license you better be selling a $hit-ton of pizza (and producing it for cheap), this is the same. If you refuse to widen your revenue base then you better be selling beer like there is no tomorrow.

Thought it was interesting to hear about how folks inside banks consider the millions of loan applications for breweries.