Pasteurizing a whole corny keg?

Has anyone tried to pasteurize an entire corny keg? I'm thinking about heating water in a keggle with a false bottom a immersing the corny for however long it takes to bring the contents to 160 and cooling using an immersion chiller.

My primary concern is that the rubber on the bottom of the corny may not like getting that hot.

I was under the impression it's not necessary to pasteurize if you keg your cider.

therackman said:

I was under the impression it's not necessary to pasteurize if you keg your cider.

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I'm backsweetening. I don't add the extra sugar until it's ready to go into the kegerator. Would be nice to add it ahead of time, but I worry about what will happen to the rubber bottom if it spends 20 min in 160-180 degree water.

Definitely don't. If you backsweetened it should be fine if it's in a nice cold fridge, especially if it sits there a few weeks and you pour a glass or two to get the yeast out, or use potassium sorbate and sulfite once fermentation is long complete, backsweeten, and keg.

Could you run your cider through your immersion chiller sitting in your HLT to pasteurize on the way to a second keg? Kinda like a RIMS system? Does it have to be at 160 for 20 minutes?

RachmaelBenApplebaum said:

Definitely don't. If you backsweetened it should be fine if it's in a nice cold fridge, especially if it sits there a few weeks and you pour a glass or two to get the yeast out, or use potassium sorbate and sulfite once fermentation is long complete, backsweeten, and keg.

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Yeah, I've been doing this for a while. It would be nice to be able to sweeten and store it at room temp, but I guess I'll have to stay with the system I have.

n240sxguy said:

Could you run your cider through your immersion chiller sitting in your HLT to pasteurize on the way to a second keg? Kinda like a RIMS system? Does it have to be at 160 for 20 minutes?

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I've considered the immersion heater/chiller method, I have the parts I need to do it, but I don't want to mess with the sanitation, cooling bath etc. Too much work for something I make every two or three weeks.

RachmaelBenApplebaum said:

or use potassium sorbate and sulfite.

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I stopped using sorbate/sulfite years ago. It leaves a smell I dislike.

You could use the stovetop pasteurizing method using glass gallon jugs.

Bender said:

I stopped using sorbate/sulfite years ago. It leaves a smell I dislike.

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Just curious, how much sorbate/sulfite were you adding? The only time I've ever noticed it was when I put way too much in to begin with. And even then the smell dissipates after aging for a while. I've never been able to smell it in the commercial stuff.

TexasWine said:

Just curious, how much sorbate/sulfite were you adding? The only time I've ever noticed it was when I put way too much in to begin with. And even then the smell dissipates after aging for a while. I've never been able to smell it in the commercial stuff.

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Whatever is says on the bottle. The last time I used it I made skeeter pee and I can smell the chemical odor. I think I'm just sensitive to that odor. I detest hard boiled eggs because they smell like sulfur to me.

I've read that a lot of folks back sweeten, keg and then throw it in a kegerator without ever pasteurizing or adding sorbate or kmeta. The low temps are supposed to inhibit yeast activity.

But back to your original question, I doubt 160F water will do any damage to the keg itself. The worst thing I could imagine happening is your seals giving way during the heating cycle. You'll probably want to replace them after doing this. And you'll want to keep an eye on the pressure in the keg. Higher temp = higher pressure.

How hot is the tap water in your house? Typical is no hotter than 140F I believe. You could always test it out with that.

Another thought. Will it fit in your dishwasher if you lay it on its side? A lot of folks bottle pasteurize using the sanitize setting on their dishwasher.

Last idea. You could back sweeten, cold crash, force carb in the keg, THEN bottle from the keg using the method prescribed in one of the beer forums and immediately pasteurize the bottles. This is what I'd do if I wanted to avoid sorbate/kmeta.

TexasWine said:

I've read that a lot of folks back sweeten, keg and then throw it in a kegerator without ever pasteurizing or adding sorbate or kmeta. The low temps are supposed to inhibit yeast activity.

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This is what I currently do and it works. The only thing I'd like to change is kill the yeast and backsweeten before I chill and carb. That way I could have the kegs ready to go when I need a new one.

But back to your original question, I doubt 160F water will do any damage to the keg itself. The worst thing I could imagine happening is your seals giving way during the heating cycle. You'll probably want to replace them after doing this. And you'll want to keep an eye on the pressure in the keg. Higher temp = higher pressure.

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Yup, I know what a BLEVE is. I go through a keg every 3 weeks, if I have to replace the seals this method is a no go.

How hot is the tap water in your house? Typical is no hotter than 140F I believe. You could always test it out with that.

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I can take a shower with all hot water. It's just two of us so I have no need to have very hot water.

Another thought. Will it fit in your dishwasher if you lay it on its side? A lot of folks bottle pasteurize using the sanitize setting on their dishwasher.

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No, but if it did that would be an interesting idea.

Last idea. You could back sweeten, cold crash, force carb in the keg, THEN bottle from the keg using the method prescribed in one of the beer forums and immediately pasteurize the bottles. This is what I'd do if I wanted to avoid sorbate/kmeta.

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If I ever decide to bottle the stuff this is what I'll do, but I keg. I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to stick with the method I currently use.

Bender said:

Yup, I know what a BLEVE is.

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Awesome! Off topic, but what do you do for a living? I'm an engineer in the hydrocarbon business, and I never thought I'd hear someone use that term on this forum.

TexasWine said:

Awesome! Off topic, but what do you do for a living? I'm an engineer in the hydrocarbon business, and I never thought I'd hear someone use that term on this forum.

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I'm a retired information security engineer, but I used to be a volunteer fireman and I used to work for a chemical company where the motto was no clouds, no craters. Over my career I've worked as a cook, a draftsman, an electrician's assistant, an electronic tech, pretty much any IT position you can think of.

I never thought I'd see that term here either. I work at a chemical plant, and am on the fire brigade. I just watched a video during training last week with multiple scenarios of propane tanks giving out. Apparently not everyone understands how dangerous propane can be; even some firefighters. Back to the issue at hand though. I brought up the idea before of a single loop pasteurization with an immersion chiller in a HLT. You could go from the liquid out post to a pump, then to the immersion chiller, then back to the gas in post. Keep the lid loose, and recirculate til the whole keg is up to temp.

Boilin liquid expanding vapor... Hahaha actually I was just as surprised to see it used here, I work for a tank car lessor at a maintenance yard, I do nde and from my first class we have watched this video, it is the reason most tank cars have an inner tank and outer jacket with 4-6 inches of fiber wool insulation



We also see implosions to some extent when customers forget to vent the cars as they are being offloaded

n240sxguy said:

I never thought I'd see that term here either. I work at a chemical plant, and am on the fire brigade. I just watched a video during training last week with multiple scenarios of propane tanks giving out. Apparently not everyone understands how dangerous propane can be; even some firefighters. Back to the issue at hand though. I brought up the idea before of a single loop pasteurization with an immersion chiller in a HLT. You could go from the liquid out post to a pump, then to the immersion chiller, then back to the gas in post. Keep the lid loose, and recirculate til the whole keg is up to temp.

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As a fireman in training for propane fires (scary stuff) we had to watch videos of exploding tanks. BBQ size to railroad cars being launched towards the horizon. I stopped storing propane in the house after that. I was in one propane drill and it was hot hot hot. Our backup wasn't on the ball and the guy in front of me suffered some burns to the face and hands (we wore those fireball gloves back then) and my turnout coat had holes burned in it. Fortunately for me the poor guy in front of me was a lot bigger than I am and he got the brunt of it. Pretty much sucked for him though.

Back on topic. My planned version of the recirculation was to run a pair of 1/4" 25' coils (I have the copper here) connected with hoses and ball locks from keg 1 through a heated water bath (maybe 180 degrees) and then through an ice water bath and into keg 2. I'm not sure I want to go through the cleaning ritual every two weeks or so.

Bender said:

As a fireman in training for propane fires (scary stuff) we had to watch videos of exploding tanks. BBQ size to railroad cars being launched towards the horizon. I stopped storing propane in the house after that. I was in one propane drill and it was hot hot hot. Our backup wasn't on the ball and the guy in front of me suffered some burns to the face and hands (we wore those fireball gloves back then) and my turnout coat had holes burned in it. Fortunately for me the poor guy in front of me was a lot bigger than I am and he got the brunt of it. Pretty much sucked for him though.

Back on topic. My planned version of the recirculation was to run a pair of 1/4" 25' coils (I have the copper here) connected with hoses and ball locks from keg 1 through a heated water bath (maybe 180 degrees) and then through an ice water bath and into keg 2. I'm not sure I want to go through the cleaning ritual every two weeks or so.

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It would be a lot of cleaning. Maybe you could do bigger batches and do them less often.

The video they showed us had a fire crew show up at this 2000 gallon propane tank that was leaking out the bottom where a line was broken off. The high flow shutoff failed, and they couldn't get to it to shut it off. They were just going to let it burn out. They put cooling water on surrounding buildings to protect them, but none on the tank. A few minutes went by and boom. A huge chunk if killed two firefighters, and two more were barley missed. There's no reason for a professional to not be prepared for any situation. It's a shame they hadn't been trained properly.

Wondering if you ever submitted the keg to a pasteurization process and how it worked out?

Irishwrench said:

Wondering if you ever submitted the keg to a pasteurization process and how it worked out?

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No, I never tried it. I was afraid it would cause the rubber bottom to detach from the keg.

What if, instead of an immersion chiller, you made a very skinny immersion warmer that you could slip into the keg. You'd have to find a way to get really hot water to circulate through it, but that would eliminate the pressure problem (kornys have blow-off valves anyway), and you wont have to heat the rubber foot directly.

Bender said:

No, I never tried it. I was afraid it would cause the rubber bottom to detach from the keg.

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Funny. I've wondered about the same thing for the same reason. I kind of like that idea of making a copper "warmer" to go down into the keg through which I could circulate heated water from my E-BIAB keggle. Hmmm, there may be an experimental project in the works.

I've recently starter doing ciders. I have one in the keg right now that I hit with 1.5tsp of K-sorbate, back-sweetened w/ frozen AJ concentrate and spiced a little. I've bottled some of that off the keg and sat it in a box at room temp. Apparently the K-sorbate worked since all of those bottles had a normal carb level.

You're going to have heat loss though the wall of the keg. Unless it's insulated I'm not sure you could get enough energy transfer to heat all of the cider to 160º. Even with insulation that's a lot of energy to transfer.

An alternative I thought of but decided not to do was to rig a set of coils, one in a bath of very hot water and the other in an ice water bath. I would use CO2 to push the cider from keg 1 through the hot, then cold coils and into another keg. I decided against it because of sanitation concerns and the excessive use of CO2.

Bender said:

You're going to have heat loss though the wall of the keg. Unless it's insulated I'm not sure you could get enough energy transfer to heat all of the cider to 160º. Even with insulation that's a lot of energy to transfer.

An alternative I thought of but decided not to do was to rig a set of coils, one in a bath of very hot water and the other in an ice water bath. I would use CO2 to push the cider from keg 1 through the hot, then cold coils and into another keg. I decided against it because of sanitation concerns and the excessive use of CO2.

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I know this is an old post but have you thought about using this method, but instead using an oxygen tank to push the liquid through the heating coil and cooler? Then you can carb with out using to much co2......

never mind. I just thought about that......

I would purchase an extra corny keg lid drill two holes in the top and run a copper emersion coil through it. Attach an HLT tank and chugger pump.
You would want to open the pressure valve and you could even run a temp prob. in through the lid as well.

KellysBane said:

I would purchase an extra corny keg lid drill two holes in the top and run a copper emersion coil through it. Attach an HLT tank and chugger pump.
You would want to open the pressure valve and you could even run a temp prob. in through the lid as well.

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Thinking about that... You might have a tough time getting the lid to latch, it might have to just sit on top.

Ok shoot me if im wrong. I have thought about doing this exact thing but to make it LESS dangerous to pasteurize than putting glass bottles in a hot water bath. The PSI rating on a corny keg is 130-160. The relief valve blows at 50. A new 12 oz brown beer bottle might handle 45? Why is the keg more dangerous?

I should have followed up on this topic. I have done it. It works. What I did was take a spare corny keg lid and drill a hole for a rubber grommet so I could poke a thermometer in. I built a rope sling and used a ceiling hoist to lower the keg into a keggle with a false bottom and heated the water to about 200 degrees and let the contents come up to pasteurization temp. Then I chilled the keg, force carbed and used a blichmann gun to bottle. It works. It's a PITA so I only did it a couple of times.

Bender, good to know! For doing small batches that are less of a PITA, you can use a 1 or 1.6 gallon torpedo keg and just simmer it in a water bath in a pot on your stove. Think of it as a big can[emoji6] you can also use an IR thermometer scanner gun (for not much $) and use that to take a temp reading inside so no need for a new hole

I try to keep 4 beers on tap. Doing this means some of it stays a longer while in my Keezer. This being the case I started pasteurizing my beers a long time ago. Here is the method I have done since day 1. First I have an old beer keg (15.5 gallons) I installed immersion heaters in and I usually brew 10 plus gallon batches. At the end of fermentation I run the fermented batch into my 15.5 keg and heat it to 160 and hold it for 15 minutes. At this temperature you will not lose any of the ethanol, but the methanol will vaporize out. After 15 minutes I load co2 in the top of the 15.5 keg and allow it to cool. When it gets to room temperature I rack it into a corny keg. Most of the time this goes into my Keezer or into one of my other special converted freezers. It's a little extra work but this has worked for me over the years.

As far as taste goes it seems to stay the same over time, I mean it doesn't change with time as it might if it is not pasteurized.

Bender said:

Has anyone tried to pasteurize an entire corny keg? I'm thinking about heating water in a keggle with a false bottom a immersing the corny for however long it takes to bring the contents to 160 and cooling using an immersion chiller.

My primary concern is that the rubber on the bottom of the corny may not like getting that hot.

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open the keg, run the fluid through a heat exchanger and back into the keg while circulating the water side from a large pot of boiling water into you reach the desired temp in your keg. Or use Camden tablets to kill the yeast.