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Old 11-04-2012, 06:54 AM   #1
KuntzBrewing
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I know I am not the only one who experiences this. I've recently come out of denial to say that my IPAs suck. I've done water adjustments, used different malts, used different hops, different fermentation temps, etc. I can not (so far) make a great, or even a decent, ipa.

I've continued to make ipas in hope that I can eventually pin point my problems. And today I think I finally have an answer: HOP ASTRINGENCY

Now my question is how can I make a good IPA with lots of good high alpha acid hops that doesn't taste astringent.

I've had some craft IPAs that have this flavor also, most notably Zombie Dust by 3 Floyd's. Since I've been perfecting my astringency tasting abilities (not always a good thing) I can actually say I do not like that beer, and actually don't see how anyone does, ya it smells good (citra hops do) but the taste is very hop astringent to me.

From what I've read, hop astringency comes from the vegetative mass of the hops, basically the more hops that are added to the beer the more tannins that get released into the beer. These tannins bond to proteins in the beer and become unnoticed. The taste you precieve is from the unbonded tannins coming in contact with taste buds.

What my IPA variations have shown me is that the higher the sulfate levels the more the hop tannins are precieved. (Some times causing undrinkable beer) so I'm thinking that my IPAs either
A) have too much vegetative matter being in contact with beer for too long (aka hop particles in the fermenter)
B) there are not enough proteins in my beer per hop tannins to effectively reduce them
C) both A) and B)

My question to the HBT members is: has anyone else had this problem and come up with a way to fix it. I love IPAs and man do my Ipas look awesome and smell freaking phenomenal but taste like sh!t
I've heard too high of wort pH can contribute to this
Feel free to input your experiences

 
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:10 AM   #2
theveganbrewer
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http://www.winning-homebrew.com/astringency.html

Check out the list of causes. Check off the ones you know aren't happening. If all are checked calibrate your thermometer. If that and bleach doesn't fix it, give up making ipas

This exact topic came up a few months ago where a guy had astringency and basically said he fixed everything but still had a problem. I gave up reading the updates because he never seemed to figure it out. I'm sure if you search for astringency it will dig up that thread.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:11 AM   #3
theveganbrewer
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I also think that if something like this is happening and you've already tried fixes, something very wrong I'd happening. Are you using your own recipes, or ones from the internet?
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:36 AM   #4
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How about some recipe info? Astringency can also be perceived as bitterness. There's a hell of a possibility that you're just using too much hops at the wrong times and not properly accounting for bitterness from late additions. Just a guess based on the lack of info in this thread.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:11 AM   #5
KuntzBrewing
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Starting water:
Ca: 79 ppm Mg: 25 Na: 19.3 Cl: 57 So4: 51 CaCO3: 225
Cut 50% with distilled water from store and added 1g gypsum(part of my experimentation on this one)
6 gallons batch
My last recipe was:
15# Marris otter (mutons)
2# munich 1 (weyermans)
1# crystal/carmel 60*L (briess)
Mashed @153 until fully converted via iodine/chalk test (75ish minutes) @ 1.2 lbs per quart collected runnings and sparged 165-168 for 20 minutes with enough water to get my total runnings to 7.5 gallons
Hops
Summit and centineal mixed and weighed out
2oz @ 20min
1oz @ 15
1oz @ 10
1 @ 5
OG 1.072 at 70*
Fg was 1.012
Left in during cooling in my hop spider with a 10gal paint strainer bag
Cooling time was maybe 20-30 minutes to 70*
Fermented in bucket with proper yeast amounts propagated on my stirplate
Using wyeast 1056
Fermented in swamp cooler with water temps at 55-60 degrees so I'm guessing 65-70 degree internal temps
I let that ferment about 2 weeks then sit another week at 70-75 ambient to degass some more before I dry hopped with 3 oz of the hop mix (in a 1 gallons strainer bag) for 10 more days.
Racked and let that sit about another week while I was waiting on my cousin to sell me his kegerator. Then kegged and drank

 
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:19 AM   #6
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I'd say go with 100% RO water, and add almost no gypsum. That's what I've been doing for some IPAs, and the full hops flavor is there, but without the harsh bitterness.

Say, in a 5 gallon batch 100% RO water with 5 grams of calcium chloride. And nothing else.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:24 AM   #7
KuntzBrewing
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I just updated my previous post and added my water profile and my OG

 
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuntzBrewing View Post
I just updated my previous post and added my water profile and my OG
That water profile is your tap water, and you cut it with distilled after that, at 50%? The caC03 is still pretty darn high!
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:29 AM   #9
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Also, sparge water! With that profile, you'd either have to acidify the sparge water or dilute about 75% with distilled or RO water. A lot of the harshness would be coming from that. My preference would be to use all RO water for one batch, as I think that is a big issue here.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:32 AM   #10
KuntzBrewing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theveganbrewer
http://www.winning-homebrew.com/astringency.html

Check out the list of causes. Check off the ones you know aren't happening. If all are checked calibrate your thermometer. If that and bleach doesn't fix it, give up making ipas

This exact topic came up a few months ago where a guy had astringency and basically said he fixed everything but still had a problem. I gave up reading the updates because he never seemed to figure it out. I'm sure if you search for astringency it will dig up that thread.
Checked out the link. I don't think I'm having grain astringency as only my IPAs have this problem that's why I'm thinking its hop derived

 
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