Thin beer - after adding Whiskey

I plan on making a bourbon/oak cube infused Porter.
I conducted a small experiment where I added a teaspoon of Bourbon to 10 ounces of Stout I had brewed. It had a nice/subtle taste, but I was surprised at how thin the beer seemed. 1 tea spoon is 1/60 the volume of 10 ounces.

As a control I had placed the remainder of the bottle (5 ounces) in a different glass, and it was of normal body.

Does adding Whiskey have that big an impact to the body of a beer?
How might I compensate for this thinness?
Add MaltoDextrin?

(This was from an Extract. For All grain I can mash higher.)

ArcLight said:

I plan on making a bourbon/oak cube infused Porter.
I conducted a small experiment where I added a teaspoon of Bourbon to 10 ounces of Stout I had brewed. It had a nice/subtle taste, but I was surprised at how thin the beer seemed. 1 tea spoon is 1/60 the volume of 10 ounces.

As a control I had placed the remainder of the bottle (5 ounces) in a different glass, and it was of normal body.

Does adding Whiskey have that big an impact to the body of a beer?
How might I compensate for this thinness?
Add MaltoDextrin?

(This was from an Extract. For All grain I can mash higher.)

Click to expand...

This is the difference between "oak aging" and "fortifying". Normally people age oak chips in whiskey, drain off the whiskey and add the chips. I recommend a 12 hour freeze thaw cycle until none of the chips float before adding them to secondary.

Fortifying is a whole different animal. MOST fortified beers I have had were done because the yeast died from to high an alcohol level. Think 15%-20% RIS fortified with whiskey to get it to 20%-25% ABV. Yes, this will make it thinner but that is not really the point, you also answered the question with "mash higher" but you can also add other things to steeping grains to get a thicker mouthfeel like oatmeal.

>>This is the difference between "oak aging" and "fortifying". Normally people age oak chips in whiskey, drain off the whiskey and add the chips. I recommend a 12 hour freeze thaw cycle until none of the chips float before adding them to secondary.

But if the Oak Cubes absorb a lot of the Bourbon, the Beer will thin out as that is released into the beer in the fermenter. The Bourbon won't remain in the Cubes if sitting in the beer for 4 weeks.

ArcLight said:

But if the Oak Cubes absorb a lot of the Bourbon, the Beer will thin out as that is released into the beer in the fermenter. The Bourbon won't remain in the Cubes if sitting in the beer for 4 weeks.

Click to expand...

Not a chance. lol. I know from 1st hand experience that is not right. I have used Jack Daniels shredded whiskey barrel chips that are sold "for smoking" (like meats). They add more flavor than you can imagine and are BONE DRY.

A chip/cube/spiral can only absorb so much liquid. When it is "full" and you add that to more liquid that doesn't make the liquid in the wood magically leak out of the wood. More or less it "scalps/leeches" the flavor into the beer. I would go as far to say that is would have a nearly undetectable gravity change. It is this gravity change that is causing the "thinness" you are describing.

When you add liquor into beer, the liquor in nearly every instance is a MUCH lower gravity, the more you add the lower the gravity of your beer gets. This is why a cream ale feels thinner than a stout because the FG of a stout is higher (in most cases) due to the unfermented sugars...

I hope this make sense...or someone else may need to try and explain this...

I have no experience in brewing with oak and whiskey, but I agree it seems strange for such a small amount of whiskey to make a drastic change in mouthfeel. Malto-dextrine might be a good idea if you do not want to mash anything. Maybe consider a mini-mash/BIAB with some oats and 2 row.

That said, I would probably just brew the beer and serve it with a shot of whiskey to drink before each bottle/glass. Best of luck!

Zamial said:

Not a chance. lol. I know from 1st hand experience that is not right. I have used Jack Daniels shredded whiskey barrel chips that are sold "for smoking" (like meats). They add more flavor than you can imagine and are BONE DRY.

A chip/cube/spiral can only absorb so much liquid. When it is "full" and you add that to more liquid that doesn't make the liquid in the wood magically leak out of the wood. More or less it "scalps/leeches" the flavor into the beer. I would go as far to say that is would have a nearly undetectable gravity change. It is this gravity change that is causing the "thinness" you are describing.

When you add liquor into beer, the liquor in nearly every instance is a MUCH lower gravity, the more you add the lower the gravity of your beer gets. This is why a cream ale feels thinner than a stout because the FG of a stout is higher (in most cases) due to the unfermented sugars...

I hope this make sense...or someone else may need to try and explain this...

Click to expand...

OK, it does make sense to me. Thank you! I'm looking forward to brewing this.

ArcLight said:

OK, it does make sense to me. Thank you! I'm looking forward to brewing this.

Click to expand...

Glad to help! post up your recipe (if you want) but PLEASE post back the end results. We like to have the ending to the story!

>.Glad to help! post up your recipe (if you want) but PLEASE post back the end results. We like to have the ending to the story

I will do so. I am going away for a week, and I'd like to get the supplies when I return.

The Bourbon kit form Midwest Supplies is an Ale with 13.5# of base malt ( + some specialty grains) so the SG is already a bit high (for me), while Northern Brewers kit is a Porter (9# of base malt + some specialty grains).
I am thinking the Bourbon/Oak goes better with a Porter, but I may be wrong.

The Kit comes with 2 ounces of Oak Cubes. I am thinking of adding them a week or two after pitching the yeast.
The questions are:

1. How long to leave the cubes in? I am thinking 4 weeks. I can open the fermentor and taste at that point, but from what I understand the Oak may have a strong taste that mellows, so this tasting may not be reflective of the final product.

2. How many Oak Cubes to use. Although it comes with 2 ounces, I've never used Oak, I don't know how this will turn out. Maybe I should split the batch, use 1 Ounce in one fermentor, and 2 ounces in the other

3. I have Makers Mark Bourbon, and based on a recommendation here I will try the freeze/thaw approach for a week or two to get the oak flavors extracted. The question is what is the minimum "soak" time needed, as I'd prefer to pitch sooner rather than letting the yeast sit in the fridge and extra couple of weeks. Plus I want to brew something else a week or two later, so I can bottle 2 different beers the same day and save clean up time.

4. How much Bourbon to use. Certainly 10 -11 ounces. Maybe up to 16? I don't want a Bourbon dominated beer, just a presence.

I would freeze/thaw until the cubes do not float. I have no idea how long that will be. I would add ONLY the cubes to the beer in secondary, not the primary.

When you order your stuff get a super cheap, short racking cane...they are like $2ish. Then you can pop off the air lock and slide the SANITIZED cane into the bucket, put a sanitized finger over the other end and "pull" a sample. It will only be an oz or so but will give you a good idea of where the oak/burbon flavor is. After 24 check, then every 12 hours until it is perfect. Once it is where you like the flavor leave it on the oak 12 more hours, then either transfer it off the cubes or bottle it. the "over oaking" should allow the oak to fade a little and settle into you "perfect" zone.

There is no right or wrong amounts of oak to use it will only add flavor faster/slower based on quantity. 2oz is a good "1st" time quantity. I use chips and more of them because I am impatient...lol. chips give flavor faster than cubes due to increased surface area.

I would not add bourbon until after you are done oaking because you may not need it. Remember you are looking for more oak flavor and not bourbon during the oaking process. You can always add bourbon to the bottling bucket if need be, 1 oz at a time sampling as you go.

Considering this twist on the Porter recipe. My question is regarding separation of the bourbon taste from the ethanol. I am pretty sure that the 2 beers I add to my chili that the alcohol cooks off in the crock pot but the beer flavor is very distinct.
So; to keep from "thinning" the ale even a little what are thoughts on letting the soaked chips that no longer float then air dry before adding to bottling bucket. I can boil them in a quart of wort/beer to make a sort of tea then add the whole thing back to the secondary.
A lot of effort for little difference?