tips for first wine kit

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twd000

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Got a Grand Cru Heritage Estates Pinot Noir kit. Read through the directions and ready to go. Couple questions:

I usually hydrate dry yeast when brewing beer, I assume the same is recommended for wine? Packet is Lalvin EC-1118 - what is the optimal temperature for this yeast? I have a digitally-controlled refrigerator for fermenting that I can set to +/- 0.3 C, so 70-80 F listed on the directions doesn't really narrow it down.

It has me mixing in the bentonite in primary, which I'm OK with. Also got a "tea-bag" full of oak chips, which is also supposed to go in primary, according to directions? I thought oak-aging was supposed to wait until secondary?

Stabilizing and clearing step is listed @ 14 days - any harm if I don't get around to it for an extra week or so? Directions have me adding sulphite, potassium sorbate, <degassing>, kieselsol, chitosan. Are all these chemicals necessary if I plan to bulk age it for a couple months, rather than the 28 days in the directions? I've heard that degassing can be skipped if letting it age long enough (the CO2 will naturally come out of solution over time).
 
Got a Grand Cru Heritage Estates Pinot Noir kit. Read through the directions and ready to go. Couple questions:

I usually hydrate dry yeast when brewing beer, I assume the same is recommended for wine? Packet is Lalvin EC-1118 - what is the optimal temperature for this yeast? I have a digitally-controlled refrigerator for fermenting that I can set to +/- 0.3 C, so 70-80 F listed on the directions doesn't really narrow it down.

It has me mixing in the bentonite in primary, which I'm OK with. Also got a "tea-bag" full of oak chips, which is also supposed to go in primary, according to directions? I thought oak-aging was supposed to wait until secondary?

Stabilizing and clearing step is listed @ 14 days - any harm if I don't get around to it for an extra week or so? Directions have me adding sulphite, potassium sorbate, <degassing>, kieselsol, chitosan. Are all these chemicals necessary if I plan to bulk age it for a couple months, rather than the 28 days in the directions? I've heard that degassing can be skipped if letting it age long enough (the CO2 will naturally come out of solution over time).

I know it sounds like I'm being simplistic, but that is a good kit and if you follow the directions exactly it'll be great. Oak chips (more like sawdust if you ask me!) go in primary in many kits, with oak spirals used later for more pronounced oak.

You can definitely wait on the stabilizing and clearing, but you don't want to wait too long because you don't top up until after the degassing, leaving a lot of headspace. You'll want to degas, unless you're letting it sit in the carboy a long, long, long time. The chemicals are not necessary, and I leave out the sorbate in dry wines. The Kielsesol and chitosan are clarifiers, one is positively charged and one is negative. Used according to the package, they will clear the wine very quickly. I often leave them out, since the wine is almost always clear after the degassing anyway.
 
Cool. So what temp should I set my fridge for? 75 - right in the middle of the range?

What is the cheapest tool for degassing? I have a full stable of brewing equipment. I've also seen some people rigging up vacuum cleaners/pumps/air compressors - I have most of those too. Would like to avoid buying any new gadgets if possible.
 
Cool. So what temp should I set my fridge for? 75 - right in the middle of the range?

What is the cheapest tool for degassing? I have a full stable of brewing equipment. I've also seen some people rigging up vacuum cleaners/pumps/air compressors - I have most of those too. Would like to avoid buying any new gadgets if possible.

I usually ferment at about 70-72 and like the flavors I get from it- pretty neutral with no fusels and a nice clean finish.

You can do just about anything that works for degassing- from using a mity vac (for bleeding brakes) to a big spoon. An easy thing to use is a wine degassing thing that fits into your drill. They are about $18. But you could simulate the same thing if you don't mind plastic- I read on Jack Keller's site that he used one of those plastic dowels like you use to close and open mini-blinds. He heated up an end, and hammered it flat like a paddle. Then stuck the other end in his drill. He sanitized that and went to town.

When you degas with a drill, be careful for the first few minutes. A wine volcano can go up the rod and into your drill in nothing flat (and electrocute you). Stir it first, by hand, then give it a super short burst. Then another. Until you get where the foaming stops. Trust me on this. I speak from experience. Oh, I've not been electrocuted (yet) but I've experienced a quiet still wine volcanoing (is that a word?) lickety-split and losing about a gallon of wine and making a huge mess. Slow and steady is the way to start the process!
 
So if I ferment in a plastic bucket, I can just whip it with a sanitized stainless spoon for 5 minutes before transferring to secondary carboy? That sounds like the easiest path to success
 
It will take WAAAAAAAY longer than 5 minutes to degas with a spoon.

Even with a dedicated degassing tool, it can take several 5 - 10 minute stirs with 10 -20 minute breaks between them. I went with a vacuum device and it still takes 45 - 60 minutes.
 
hmmm...what if I bent a coat-hanger to make a wine whip for my drill? And did a couple 5-minute sessions with a break in between? How do I know when I'm "done"?
 
hmmm...what if I bent a coat-hanger to make a wine whip for my drill? And did a couple 5-minute sessions with a break in between? How do I know when I'm "done"?

You'll be doing this in a carboy, as the degassing happens after racking to secondary, which uses a 6 gallon carboy. You can use a coat hanger if you want.

You're "done" when the wine isn't gassy any more. I have some wines, especially at a warmer temperature, where the wine lets go of the gas readily and it's 10 or 15 minutes of light stirring. Then I have some where I use the wine whip over a couple of days, and it's still gassy! Since it'll be warm when you do this, you may find it only takes 15-20 minutes with some sort of degassing tool.
 
One kit I got had instructions to test the gas level by filling your test jar about half full, then shake several times with your palm over the opening. When removing your palm from the test jar your should not hear a "poof" of air pressure. If you hear a "poof", then degass some more.

Personally I tried the drill attachment, and the brake bleeder, and finally got an electric vacuum pump. The electric is the only way to go in my opinion, and my last batch still took close to an hour before the bubbles slowed enough that I finally called it good.
 
I make dozens of batches each day at my store, and the degassing process takes like 4 mins total, using a simple sanitized plastic spoon... Most people get carried away with what is required...

Rack from bucket to carboy, add sorbate and sulfite, stir for about 2 mins vigorously, ad kieselsol, stir for one minute, add chitosan stir for one minute, fill airlock and walk away for 10-14 days.

Works every time.
 
You'll be doing this in a carboy, as the degassing happens after racking to secondary, which uses a 6 gallon carboy. You can use a coat hanger if you want.

You're "done" when the wine isn't gassy any more. I have some wines, especially at a warmer temperature, where the wine lets go of the gas readily and it's 10 or 15 minutes of light stirring. Then I have some where I use the wine whip over a couple of days, and it's still gassy! Since it'll be warm when you do this, you may find it only takes 15-20 minutes with some sort of degassing tool.

The directions state I can do the whole stabilizing and clearing step in my bucket, then transfer to carboy after degassing. This will let me use my ghetto wine whip in the bucket without trying to fit it in the neck of the carboy.
 
I make dozens of batches each day at my store, and the degassing process takes like 4 mins total, using a simple sanitized plastic spoon... Most people get carried away with what is required...

Rack from bucket to carboy, add sorbate and sulfite, stir for about 2 mins vigorously, ad kieselsol, stir for one minute, add chitosan stir for one minute, fill airlock and walk away for 10-14 days.

Works every time.

Just my opinion, but your customers are drinking bad wine if this is all that you are doing.
 
One kit I got had instructions to test the gas level by filling your test jar about half full, then shake several times with your palm over the opening. When removing your palm from the test jar your should not hear a "poof" of air pressure. If you hear a "poof", then degass some more.

Personally I tried the drill attachment, and the brake bleeder, and finally got an electric vacuum pump. The electric is the only way to go in my opinion, and my last batch still took close to an hour before the bubbles slowed enough that I finally called it good.

do you have a web link to your electric vacuum pump?
 
nahk said:
I make dozens of batches each day at my store, and the degassing process takes like 4 mins total, using a simple sanitized plastic spoon... Most people get carried away with what is required...

Rack from bucket to carboy, add sorbate and sulfite, stir for about 2 mins vigorously, ad kieselsol, stir for one minute, add chitosan stir for one minute, fill airlock and walk away for 10-14 days.

Works every time.

I've been degassing one of my wines like crazy for the past couple of months. Still gassy when I do the poof test and plenty of bubbles rising when I am using my wine whip.
This is after 4 months of aging and degassing. I think I am just going to bottle it and then decant the wine when I serve it.
 
do you have a web link to your electric vacuum pump?

Don't have a web link, since I put it together myself, mainly with parts I bought off Amazon. The vacuum pump itself it probably the most expensive part of the setup, and I probably could have used a smaller one than I bought. Here is a link to a couple available for sale, but you can probably put something together yourself cheaper.

http://allinonewinepump.com/
http://store.homebrewheaven.com/wineeasy-vacuum-press-kit-p2016.aspx

I'm not endorsing any of these products, since I've not used them. The video on the all in one wine pump might be of interest to some, on how you can use the pump to rack your wine too.
 
Don't have a web link, since I put it together myself, mainly with parts I bought off Amazon. The vacuum pump itself it probably the most expensive part of the setup, and I probably could have used a smaller one than I bought. Here is a link to a couple available for sale, but you can probably put something together yourself cheaper.

http://allinonewinepump.com/
http://store.homebrewheaven.com/wineeasy-vacuum-press-kit-p2016.aspx

I'm not endorsing any of these products, since I've not used them. The video on the all in one wine pump might be of interest to some, on how you can use the pump to rack your wine too.

thanks for the tip. $200 is about what I see used vacuum pumps selling for on craigslist. A lot to spend on a one-purpose tool. I might look into the FoodSaver option. Or renting a brake pump from AutoZone?
 
So I made this kit 2 months ago, followed the directions and fermented at 68 F, skipped the potassium sorbate and kleisol/chitosan that was included in the kit, but added the sulphite 6 weeks ago. It is very clear and finished fermenting out. But the flavor is just really fruity/Kool-Aidy. Not at all dry or tannic like I am accustomed to commercial pinot noir. I don't detect any of the off flavors that occur in beer - no excessive phenols, esters, etc. There is a bit of CO2 fizz, but I can take care of that later. It just tastes cheap, I guess. Does anyone have experience with this RJ Spagnols Grand Cru kit? It cost about $90.
 
Did you measure the final SG?

The last time I made a red wine kit, I made it a 5 gallon batch vs 6. I think it came out better, more body.
 
Did you measure the final SG?

The last time I made a red wine kit, I made it a 5 gallon batch vs 6. I think it came out better, more body.

S.G. was 0.998 on June 1st. O.G. was 1.090, which is the high-end of the directions for the kit

Is it possible to ferment TOO cool even if I got a complete fermentation?
 
You'd have to get pretty cold to stop fermentation. If you fermented at 68F it just takes a little longer.

0.998 is a bit on the off dry side. If you want it drier, wait until you get to to 0.990 before you add sulfide.
 
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