When is it ok to ask people to chip in for ingredients?

So before Xmas, I brewed a batch of Molasses Porter that amounted to 54 bottles. I had probably 8 before relatives arrived, and gave away 6 to a co-worker who came over to learn about brewing and helped me out on Brew Day. That left 40 bottles. Over the course of 3 days bracketing Xmas, those 40 bottles disappeared, primarily into the bellies of 2 members of my wife's family. I think I may have had 8. Here in Canada, a case of craft beer costs upwards of $45 and I had made the mistake of mentioning that I had basically made 2+ cases of what amounts to craft beer for $30. I think the wife's fam took this to mean that it was open season on my beer, as it was cheap enough to drink it like clearance priced BMC.

While I am thrilled that people enjoyed my creation, and it did provide me with an excuse to brew another batch of porter sooner than I would have, this pissed me off a bit. Here's why:
1. I have only started brewing on a regular basis and this completely wiped out my supply of beer. I was left with none.
2. While home brewing is cost-effective, the price doesn't reflect the quality of the product. For me to re-stock with something of equal quality to what I produced would either take me a month of crafting a new batch or about $100 at the beer store.
3. The monetary price is just the ingredients. It doesn't show the thought that went into developing the recipe, the hard work and heavy lifting of brew day, and the patience to bottle condition to perfection.

In contrast to the in-laws, my colleague who came and brewed with me was thrilled to receive his 6 pack. He drank 2 that night, and is planning on drinking the others after 1 month and 6 months. He saw what went into the bottle beyond the ingredients and has offered to pay for the next batch of ingredients, provided he gets half the finished beer. I would never dream of taking money from someone like that. I'm more than happy to give him some brews, and if he wants to get into it, then we can split the costs and the batches.

But in the case of the in-laws, is it appropriate to suggest that if they intend on cleaning me out of brews every holiday that they at least pay for the ingredients for a new batch?


Ok I'm done ranting now...:rockin:

What did we learn? Never tell your inlaws you have good beer. Always have some BMC on hand to give them, save the good stuff for yourself.

There should be no expectation of cash for the beer or ingredient purchases from your in-laws. Why did you let them drink 40 bottles of your homebrew in three days? Lips stopped working and you couldn't say "Sorry, I want to hang onto a few dozen to age."?

It's kind of a common pattern with homebrewers...you start making beer and want people to think it's good to validate the time and money you spend on your hobby...then when someone thinks our beer is good enough (free beer is good anyway) and cleans us out, we get upset.

So next time, only give away as much as you can do without. If your inlaws ask where the free beer is, tell them your stock is low and it takes time to get a pipleline going so you can only spare a few bottles. Or ask for a sack of two-row for Christmas next year; maybe they'll get the hint. I'd leave out any discussion of all the thinking, hard work and heavy lifting--it's like complaining that golf has a lot of walking and swinging.

My favorite line is: "i only have 6 of 'these' left. The rest is still conditioning and wont be ready for a month."

Why didn't you stop them? I'm really bad. All of my beer (bottled or kegged), is in a certain room in my house. No one besides my wife and I are allowed in that room. The second I get the feeling that someone is about to cross over into taking advantage territory, they're done, no exceptions.

That said, I don't think I would ask them for ingredients. I would just cut them off for good.

I think the loss to the in-laws is just that, a loss. Next time just put a few in the fridge for them and hoard the rest.

Take up your friend on his offer. Have him pay for half and take half. But upscale and brew 2 batches. He would also have to help. All the way including cleanup and bottling.

Asking for ingredients for Christmas sounds like a good idea.

I have wrestled with the same thing and the only solution I came up with was to put a coffee can on top of my frig with a note with "homebrewing donations accepted" on it. But when it comes to family (esspecially in-laws) all bets are off.

osagedr said:

Why did you let them drink 40 bottles of your homebrew in three days?

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I didn't... wife did

osagedr said:

Or ask for a sack of two-row for Christmas next year;

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Tried this for their secret santa thing... got a ****ty board game and a garage-sale telescope instead

I think my best solutions will be to either have them over for a brew day or just tell them i quit brewing and keep a case of Lucky Lager on hand for them.

it is the never ending battle that frankly I have become comfortable with. I enjoy brewing and therefore brew WAY TOO MUCH for me to drink. It is really only a buddy and me that are brewing... We have a couple of friends that have bought kits and we have brewed them and they have stayed at our, oops, I mean my friends bar. We keg only, so the only way to get our beer is to drink pints with us, or take home a growler...
We have come up with a sort of "token" type thing or credit system... If you want some of our beer in volume... no problem... We have tons of things we need to buy for our brewing pleasure... Hops, grains, equipment, etc... a friend of ours just chipped in on our hop group buy... We split a $250 order roughly, so he gets 80 bucks in our homebrew club credits... Just a fun way to have people chip in and make fun of the ones who dont.

I think your wife should be buying you the ingredients for your next batch, since she volunteered your beer to the in-laws.

Darwin18 said:

I think your wife should be buying you the ingredients for your next batch, since she volunteered your beer to the in-laws.

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winner!

ajbram said:

I didn't... wife did

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Ah, that explains it.

Might be time to sit her down for a heart-to-heart discussion. See if you can work in an explanation of where the expression "rule of thumb" comes from.

She's quite the crafty gal, being able to give away 40 bottles of your beer without you noticing.

Darwin18 said:

I think your wife should be buying you the ingredients for your next batch, since she volunteered your beer to the in-laws.

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I would make her brew the batch too.

asidrane said:

I would make her brew the batch too.

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Heck ya. And you can supervise, beer in hand.

MC

It's time to cut her off.




And no beer for her either!

osagedr said:

Ah, that explains it.

Might be time to sit her down for a heart-to-heart discussion. See if you can work in an explanation of where the expression "rule of thumb" comes from.

She's quite the crafty gal, being able to give away 40 bottles of your beer without you noticing.

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in sickness and in heal..

doesn't mention giving away your homebrew.

I don't have this problem. One of the more beer-drinking in-law lamented on Facebook yesterday that budweiser fell out of the top spot for most consumed beer.

If you want people who drink your beer to pitch in for ingredients, they should go into it with that understanding. It sounds like your wife told them they could have them? Next time do a better job of hiding them, or let your wife know you want to save some.

I have inlaws that we have to hide the good booze from whenever they come over. We just keep the average stuff out as they'll down a $100 bottle of 20 year old bourbon like it's water and not think anything of it. So they get Old Granddad and Sam Adams when they're around (nothing against SA, it's still one of my standards.).

osagedr said:

Ah, that explains it.

Might be time to sit her down for a heart-to-heart discussion. See if you can work in an explanation of where the expression "rule of thumb" comes from.

She's quite the crafty gal, being able to give away 40 bottles of your beer without you noticing.

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I think the lion's share of the damage was done when people discovered that the beer tasted even better at basement temperature and started wandering into the basement brewing area while I was in the kitchen doing the chef thing. In my wife's defense, she pointed out where the beer was kept and said "help yourself." I don't think either of us realized the rate of consumption was as high as it was, especially when people thought they were being considerate by taking their empties back to the basement and rinsing them. No big stack of empties piling up usually means not much beer being consumed where I come from.

Darwin18 said:

I think your wife should be buying you the ingredients for your next batch, since she volunteered your beer to the in-laws.

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I appreciate the sentiment, but doesn't that just amount to me buying the ingredients?

I really like the idea of the brewery tokens, but I think I am going to adapt on it a little bit!

Im thinking of having a chalkboard or dry-erase board in my downstairs bar with a list of items that our 'brewery' wants, and people can pledge a donation towards whichever they want and feel would increase our brewery's production or quality. Keep a running tally until there is enough funds to cover the next purchased.

Something like:

Sack of two-row ($50) - $5-Joe, $8-Steve
Brew kettle for 20 gallons batches ($100) - $20-Joe
Bulk Hops for Haus IPA ($25 dollars for 2 lbs of hops) - $3-Mike

I have to brew more, your family is coming over.....

I actually grew up across the river from Cornwall.

Unbelievable post.

Quit wining and just buy them BMC next time.

buffalobrewer said:

I have to brew more, your family is coming over.....

I actually grew up across the river from Cornwall.

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Interesting... I actually grew up across the river from Buffalo

bja said:

Unbelievable post.

Quit wining and just buy them BMC next time.

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I'm neither wining nor whining. Why would I buy something that I won't drink?

i have to add my $.02 here.
first and foremost, isn't it flattering that your beer was that well received? i'd take it as a compliment.
second, if i get this right, you had less than a full batch in the pipeline? over the holidays? and you're surprised that the pipeline's empty after the holidays? i know that a batch of good beer can go very quickly, especially when entertaining guests around a holiday that tends to see some serious drinking.
third, i think it's silly to expect someone else to support your hobby simply because you gave them some of your beer, or ALL of your beer for that matter.
lastly, i'd never expect friends and family to chip in for ingredients just because i like to give them some of my beer. in fact, giving some of my beer to the people i care for (i know, i know, inlaws.... but ya gotta) is one of the things i like about brewing. sure i've had a buddy who'll split the cost of ingredients from time to time; we'll brew together, i ferment the batch, we'll bottle it a few weeks later while drinking my homebrew and he'll go home with half the batch. but i'd never expect him to pay me for all the times i send him home with a 6 pack or a bomber of my latest brew. i do that because he's my friend, he likes beer, and i like to brew beer. it's just nice to get the feedback from an outside source.
i'd say your issue is with under preparedness. one brew in the pipeline won't last me and my wife through the holidays (or any other 2 week period). and if i only had one beer in the pipeline, i'd prepare and make sure that at least half that batch was off limits.
sorry, that was more like $2, not $.02. but i don't think it's right to be upset over this.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i have to add my $.02 here.
first and foremost, isn't it flattering that your beer was that well received? i'd take it as a compliment.
second, if i get this right, you had less than a full batch in the pipeline? over the holidays? and you're surprised that the pipeline's empty after the holidays? i know that a batch of good beer can go very quickly, especially when entertaining guests around a holiday that tends to see some serious drinking.
third, i think it's silly to expect someone else to support your hobby simply because you gave them some of your beer, or ALL of your beer for that matter.
lastly, i'd never expect friends and family to chip in for ingredients just because i like to give them some of my beer. in fact, giving some of my beer to the people i care for (i know, i know, inlaws.... but ya gotta) is one of the things i like about brewing. sure i've had a buddy who'll split the cost of ingredients from time to time; we'll brew together, i ferment the batch, we'll bottle it a few weeks later while drinking my homebrew and he'll go home with half the batch. but i'd never expect him to pay me for all the times i send him home with a 6 pack or a bomber of my latest brew. i do that because he's my friend, he likes beer, and i like to brew beer. it's just nice to get the feedback from an outside source.
i'd say your issue is with under preparedness. one brew in the pipeline won't last me and my wife through the holidays (or any other 2 week period). and if i only had one beer in the pipeline, i'd prepare and make sure that at least half that batch was off limits.
sorry, that was more like $2, not $.02. but i don't think it's right to be upset over this.

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I think the issue is more that he feels that the beer was taken as opposed to given away. There's nothing you can do about people who are content to receive but aren't interested in giving.

asidrane said:

I think the issue is more that he feels that the beer was taken as opposed to given away. There's nothing you can do about people who are content to receive but aren't interested in giving.

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that would just be silly. if the OP didn't want all the brew to be drank, a simple statement to that fact should have left him with some beer. i think the lack of preparedness and the unwillingness to speak up has left the OP a bit salty, probably more with himself than others when it comes right down to it. it's just easier to point the finger at ones wife or in laws than to say to yourself 'well, guess i shoulda planned ahead'. it's also easier to say, after the fact that it's so and so's fault instead of simply informing so and so that you didn't want all of your homebrew drunk over the 3 day visit in the first place. it's sort of passive/aggressive (not to mention pointless) to gripe about it to HBT when it would've been very easy to prevent the happenings of which the gripe is about.

I have to say I would be upset too. Although the "help yourself" line was given, I believe that any thoughtful, considerate person would at least -ask- if it were alright to have more if they saw the supply dwindling. But I'll agree it's still not right to ask people for money for ingredients, you just have to be more careful about how you distribute them. If your friend is willing to chip in for ingredients and help you brew though, that sounds like a great plan.

I like to give some of mine away to family and share with my friends when we're hanging out. At least one friend is pretty much always around on brew day or bottling day. Even then, sometimes when we're out at a bar or whatever they'll buy me a drink for sharing my tasty brew.

Hope you solve the dilemma one way or the other!

asidrane said:

I think the issue is more that he feels that the beer was taken as opposed to given away. There's nothing you can do about people who are content to receive but aren't interested in giving.

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His wife said "help yourself"...that is giving it away...and why should they be interested in "giving" back in the first place? If you are invited over to friends/family's house for dinner and you have an extra helping of food, are you expected to pitch in for groceries because of it?

I dunno, if I'm having people over at your house for dinner, then the food/booze, etc. is on me. Asking people to "throw in" for taking part seems tacky to me, no matter how much they drink/eat/etc.

I always brew a 'cheap' beer for when I have people coming over. Not a bad beer by any means, but one that doesn't require a ton of expensive hops and hard to find grains or one that takes months to age. During the holidays I had 2 cheap beers going and I emptied both on NYE.

I have no problem telling them that they can drink as much as they want from that keg but I make sure, front the get go, that the other taps are always, regardless of age, in need of more conditioning and only available for sampling. I have sampling glasses which serve this purpose well. It's a fun atmosphere, doing tastings and comparing beers, plus my great beers are preserved through the holidays.

Now that family and friends know about this, they have bought their own sampling glasses and deposited them at my house. I have a large collection of them and regular bar glasses too.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

that would just be silly. if the OP didn't want all the brew to be drank, a simple statement to that fact should have left him with some beer. i think the lack of preparedness and the unwillingness to speak up has left the OP a bit salty, probably more with himself than others when it comes right down to it. it's just easier to point the finger at ones wife or in laws than to say to yourself 'well, guess i shoulda planned ahead'. it's also easier to say, after the fact that it's so and so's fault instead of simply informing so and so that you didn't want all of your homebrew drunk over the 3 day visit in the first place. it's sort of passive/aggressive (not to mention pointless) to gripe about it to HBT when it would've been very easy to prevent the happenings of which the gripe is about.

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Now that you've given OP these suggestions, he knows how to handle the situation in the future. The post wasn't just to complain, it was to get advice.

broadbill said:

His wife said "help yourself"...that is giving it away...and why should they be interested in "giving" back in the first place? If you are invited over to friends/family's house for dinner and you have an extra helping of food, are you expected to pitch in for groceries because of it?

I dunno, if I'm having people over at your house for dinner, then the food/booze, etc. is on me. Asking people to "throw in" for taking part seems tacky to me, no matter how much they drink/eat/etc.

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I agree, I would never ask anyone to throw in. However, when I am invited to someone's house, I always ask what I can bring and even if they say nothing, I bring dessert, wine or something else for everyone to enjoy.

I have no idea how the laws are in Canada. I assume they are like that of the US. You may be able to sell it in your home as far as I know...

I can tell you that it is real easy to explain to people "The beer is free, the ingredients are not." and put out a Tip/Donation jar or pass it around. The other option is a tasting exchange. Come over with a 6-12 pack and we can taste some of your beer and some of mine, feel free to leave the leftovers.

In case people missed it, yes it was a bummer that my beer disappeared. I also mentioned that I was thrilled that it was so well received. On the balance I took it as a compliment.

For the record, I did say to them that I had wanted to keep some to age for a bit prior to anyone having any, and also pointed them towards some mead that I had brewed and towards a case of Labatt Blue which was available as well.

I should point out that I am more than happy to share my creations with the people I care about, and this is one of the things I like most about home brewing. I would NEVER dream of offering someone some home brew then insisting they pay for what they took. NEVER EVER!


The thing that got to me was that when the fridge was empty, people took it upon themselves to go into the brew room and re-stock for themselves, while I was in the kitchen with my wife cooking xmas dinner. I had no idea this was going on until I went to have a pint the day after boxing day and there was no beer to be had. Up until then, I had no idea that anyone had been in my brew room helping themselves.

I'm not pissed that they drank it all. I'm more pissed that they did so without asking and knowing that I had wanted to save some. If I was at someone's house and noticed that there were only 6 home-brews left out of an original 40, while a full case of commercial beer sat uncracked in the fridge, I would leave the home-brews alone. It just struck me as a bit of a ****** move to drink them all in such a sneaky way.

This was not an isolated incident and I should have known better. These are the same in-laws that cleaned me out of craft brew at thanksgiving (which is why the case of labatt's was present).

There, now that you all know the whole story, is it appropriate to suggest that they contribute something to keep the pipeline from running dry, or should I just cut off their supply of good booze and drink mine in front of them?

ajbram said:

In case people missed it, yes it was a bummer that my beer disappeared. I also mentioned that I was thrilled that it was so well received. On the balance I took it as a compliment.

For the record, I did say to them that I had wanted to keep some to age for a bit prior to anyone having any, and also pointed them towards some mead that I had brewed and towards a case of Labatt Blue which was available as well.

I should point out that I am more than happy to share my creations with the people I care about, and this is one of the things I like most about home brewing. I would NEVER dream of offering someone some home brew then insisting they pay for what they took. NEVER EVER!

The thing that got to me was that when the fridge was empty, people took it upon themselves to go into the brew room and re-stock for themselves, while I was in the kitchen with my wife cooking xmas dinner. I had no idea this was going on until I went to have a pint the day after boxing day and there was no beer to be had. Up until then, I had no idea that anyone had been in my brew room helping themselves.

I'm not pissed that they drank it all. I'm more pissed that they did so without asking and knowing that I had wanted to save some. If I was at someone's house and noticed that there were only 6 home-brews left out of an original 40, while a full case of commercial beer sat uncracked in the fridge, I would leave the home-brews alone. It just struck me as a bit of a ****** move to drink them all in such a sneaky way.

This was not an isolated incident and I should have known better. These are the same in-laws that cleaned me out of craft brew at thanksgiving (which is why the case of labatt's was present).

There, now that you all know the whole story, is it appropriate to suggest that they contribute something to keep the pipeline from running dry, or should I just cut off their supply of good booze and drink mine in front of them?

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You should do nothing. Your wife should in private and of her own accord explain to her family that what they did was inappropriate.

Asking them to pay you is crass, but making less available to them isn't.
Finally, if you can't trust them and have multiple incidents, YOU need to discuss with YOUR wife the rules for people being in the house.

by far the best part of homebrewing is sharing with people. you should not be upset with anyone, just go have fun and brew some more!

copyright1997 said:

You should do nothing. Your wife should in private and of her own accord explain to her family that what they did was inappropriate.

Asking them to pay you is crass, but making less available to them isn't.
Finally, if you can't trust them and have multiple incidents, YOU need to discuss with YOUR wife the rules for people being in the house.

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+1 to this; and if you want to keep some hide it so there isn't any confusion on what can get drunk and what can't. If you are going to offer it up, then the intention is there that its up for grabs. Don't let them decide how much to leave behind for you.

At the end of the day, its just beer, and luckily you are a homebrewer! You can make more.

Cut them off.

I throw pig roasts with my cousin twice a year at his house. We have a HUGE cooler that we fill with ice, and the deal has always been we supply everything except the drinks. For the first 2 years, I would put my beer in with everyone else's in the huge cooler, until I learned my lesson... I got tired of watching people who came in with Coors Light 12pks drinking whatever I put in the cooler.

Since I'm usually parked in the driveway due to bringing over food and chairs and stuff, I now leave a small cooler in the back of my Jeep with mine and one of my friend's craft beers in it. Too bad for everyone else, I don't care.

I see exactly where he is coming from because I have plenty of thirsty friends that think my beer costs me nothing but time. I will still always offer 2-3 to buddies while they are over or give them a few to take home if I don't see them much but it does get annoying to have to tell people you want to save YOUR beer and then have them get upset with you about it.

However, now that I brew 10 gallons, have my mill, and buy bulk grains I am brewing so much that I will probably HAVE to start giving it away due to space issues and the cost of buying more kegs/fermentors.

Zamial said:

II can tell you that it is real easy to explain to people "The beer is free, the ingredients are not." and put out a Tip/Donation jar or pass it around.

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Do people really do this? I'd probably laugh and think it was a joke if one of my friends pulled out a donation jar....