So Guinness used to make a porter...

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chass3

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does anyone know what it was like, what it was roughly made of, etc? I'm a big reader of early 20th century Irish literature, and gob do they guzzle down their porter!

I'm thinking that it would just be a lighter version of Guinness Extra, wouldn't it? anyone have any ideas about I might go about cloning a discontinued historical beer?

chas
 
The latest BYO has two different recipes for the original Guinness porter from the early 1800's. It was a very simple grain bill as I recall, but I don't have it in front of me right now.
 
Arthur Guinness started brewing ales from 1759 at the St. James's Gate Brewery, Dublin. On 31 December he signed (up to) a 9,000 year lease at £45 per annum for the unused brewery.[5][6][7] Ten years later on 19 May 1769 Guinness exported his ale for the first time, when six and a half barrels were shipped to Great Britain.

"Stout" originally referred to a beer's strength, but eventually shifted meaning toward body and colour.[8]

Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]

Already one of the top three British and Irish brewers, Guinness's sales soared from 350,000 barrels in 1868 to 779,000 barrels in 1876.[11] In October 1886 Guinness became a public company, and was averaging sales of 1,138,000 barrels a year. This was despite Guinness' refusal to offer their beer at a discount and no advertising.[11] Even though Guinness owned no public houses, the company was valued at £6 million and shares were twenty times oversubscribed, with share prices rising to a 60% premium on the first day of trading.[11]

Barclay perkins has some articles about the Guinness Porters.

Guinness XX Porter in 1861

Guinness Porter II
 
The latest BYO has two different recipes for the original Guinness porter from the early 1800's. It was a very simple grain bill as I recall, but I don't have it in front of me right now.

Yep - they had a couple of recipes and it was a pretty good article about the old Guinness Porter.

Chass - I also don't have the recipe in front of me, but go up to Homebrew Emporium and grab the latest BYO. From what you wrote, you would enjoy the article about how they went about determining the recipe from the old brewing logs.
 
Got it.

West India Porter

9lb Maris Otter
4.6lb Crisp Brown Malt
1lb Victory Malt
1lb Crisp Chocolate Malt

.9 oz Columbus at 70min
.35oz Columbus at 40min
1oz Willamette at 0min
1oz E. Kent Goldings at 0min

WLP 002 (Wyeast 1028)

This is very close to my porter recipe (listed under my name). Personally, I don't think I would like this beer better than the recipe I have been brewing, but I may give it a go just to see what a historical example of porter tasted like (or at least close to it).
 
Airborneguy said:
Got it.

West India Porter

9lb Maris Otter
4.6lb Crisp Brown Malt
1lb Victory Malt
1lb Crisp Chocolate Malt

.9 oz Columbus at 70min
.35oz Columbus at 40min
1oz Willamette at 0min
1oz E. Kent Goldings at 0min

WLP 002 (Wyeast 1028)

This is very close to my porter recipe (listed under my name). Personally, I don't think I would like this beer better than the recipe I have been brewing, but I may give it a go just to see what a historical example of porter tasted like (or at least close to it).

Isn't 4.6 lbs A LOT for a five gallon batch?

I make a great Fuller's Porter clone with 10-12 oz each of brown and chocolate malts.

I've never seen a recipe with even 2 pounds of brown malt!
 
Isn't 4.6 lbs A LOT for a five gallon batch?

I make a great Fuller's Porter clone with 10-12 oz each of brown and chocolate malts.

I've never seen a recipe with even 2 pounds of brown malt!

Originally Porters used to be made with 100% brown malt, but I'm not sure that brown malt is the same as today's brown.. It could convert itself, though it did create quite a bit of non-fermentables.
 
Isn't 4.6 lbs A LOT for a five gallon batch?

I make a great Fuller's Porter clone with 10-12 oz each of brown and chocolate malts.

I've never seen a recipe with even 2 pounds of brown malt!

Unless this is a porter of an OG around 1.079, I think this is for 10 gallons.
 
Originally Porters used to be made with 100% brown malt, but I'm not sure that brown malt is the same as today's brown.. It could convert itself, though it did create quite a bit of non-fermentables.

Since early 1800's brown malt has no diastatic abilities and is not able to convert itself. And currently it is bit darker.

See Shut up about Barclay Perkins for more on this subject.
 
That recipe is nowhere near historical. They (BYO) obviously just took contemporary grains and added them to get something they figure that might get them close. Victory, chocolate malt, and columbus - really!?

As said before, brown malt was once used for 100% of the grist (1700's), though by the early 1800's it became roasted, smokey, and rather burnt tasting. Brown malt was used for around 15-30% of the grist, followed by the addition of black malt (3-5%) not long after.

I made some homemade brown malt by kilning it over a hornbeam fire, as they did back in the day, and brewed a historical porter with it.

the Perfect Pint: Making (Diastatic) Brown Malt

Modern brown malt is tasty stuff, although I can't believe it tasted anything like the stuff they were making back in the 1800's.
 
guiness has always made porter, they called their stout "porter" originally because the word stout was not used for a beer style until about the early 20th century. and by definition a stout is a porter

straight off the wikis
"The name porter was first used in 1721 to describe a dark beer popular with street and river porters of London that had been made with roasted malts. This same beer later also became known as stout"
 
That recipe is nowhere near historical. They (BYO) obviously just took contemporary grains and added them to get something they figure that might get them close. Victory, chocolate malt, and columbus - really!?

I agree, especially on the hops. Not to mention, a 40 min addition is pointless. I toyed with changing the recipe a bit but realized there's no point since it would end up so close to the one I already brew.
 
guiness has always made porter, they called their stout "porter" originally because the word stout was not used for a beer style until about the early 20th century. and by definition a stout is a porter

straight off the wikis
"The name porter was first used in 1721 to describe a dark beer popular with street and river porters of London that had been made with roasted malts. This same beer later also became known as stout"

A dry stout, like draught Guinness, basically is a porter. It takes some serious beer-geekage to explain the "supposed" differences (meaning, it's above me ;)).

The only time I bother with stout is when I make strong versions, flavored, etc. In the lower roast/alcohol/color ranges, I consider the styles to basically be the same, and use the name porter.
 
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