Random thought about legality of personal brewers

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
W

winnph

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
143
Reaction score
0
Location
Takoma Park, MD
So, does anyone know if it's illegal to outsource your homebrewing allotment (200 gallons/household/year, I believe, or something like that)? I was sitting around with some friends the other day and it occurred to me that while I have next to no interest starting a brewery, it would be pretty awesome to be hired by some multimillionaire to be his personal brewer. I don't know any such multimillionaires, but there must be some out there somewhere. If people have personal chefs, personal assistants, and all the rest, why not a personal brewer?

Despite being a lawyer, I have not looked into this issue at all, and know very little about the nuances of brewing laws. I'm sure I could spend some time digging around and find an answer, but I don't really have that time right now.

Obviously in this hypothetical, fantasy world, the multimillionaire could just hire a lawyer to get a license for his brewer, if it were necessary, but I'm still curious about the underlying question of whether someone can pay someone else to brew his annual allotment. If so, seems like a gaping loophole someone should be walking through.
 
You're a lawyer and you're asking this in a homebrewing forum? Check out the federal and state laws here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes
Most of them are neither lengthy nor complicated.

Under federal law, an adult may only produce beer and wine without paying taxes for personal or family use. Your producing beer and wine for the millionaire is hardly personal or family use, unless maybe you live together. Come to think of it, it would be pretty sweet to be a live-in personal brewer!
 
You could get away with it if you had a mobile brewery and brewed on the millionaire's property and had him do a step or two. There are loop holes in everything.

You Just Got To Poke Around......
 
PVH said:
You're a lawyer and you're asking this in a homebrewing forum?
Click to expand...

Well it was more a matter of curiosity about what kind response I might get -- whether anyone's ever heard of someone trying this, etc. Obviously if I wanted the real answer I'd head over to a law library or pull up Westlaw.


Come to think of it, it would be pretty sweet to be a live-in personal brewer!
Click to expand...

Exactly! I was thinking more along the lines of going to his property to "tend" the home brewery, the way a personal gardener might tend the home garden, even if he lives elsewhere. But live-in would be even better.
 
I don't see this being an issue. This may be what you were getting at anyway but you may have just created a new profession.

Personal Assistant Brewer
 
I'm no lawyer and I've never heard of such a contract/brew keeper. However, I believe you would need to see if there are any similar cases out there and how they were ruled in court. Like the other poster said there are always loop holes and ways around these sort of guidelines.
 
I know the Mods won't like it but at some point you just have to say F.O. to the man when the reality of the situation dictates. Know any home brewers that have been popped for exceeding the limit? Me either.

I have no idea where the Feds would even come up with the money to screw with you as long as you kept it under the radar. I understand the desire to be by the book, but who here drives the speed limit? I am calling for Brewers to start pushing the envelope. What are they going to do?

Viva Wisconsin!
 
Yea I am many peoples' "Personal Brewer". They just pay me a little bit here and there, or based on my productivity. Hah.
 
PVH said:
You're a lawyer and you're asking this in a homebrewing forum? Check out the federal and state laws here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes
Most of them are neither lengthy nor complicated.

Under federal law, an adult may only produce beer and wine without paying taxes for personal or family use. Your producing beer and wine for the millionaire is hardly personal or family use, unless maybe you live together. Come to think of it, it would be pretty sweet to be a live-in personal brewer!
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you produced a wort, and the millionaire pitches the yeast, he produced the alcohol for his home use.

AmIRight?
 
I would think that under agency doctrine it wouldn't be an issue if the assistant was brewing within the 200 gallon limit for the principal's personal consumption (like you I'm an lawyer and also don't feel compelled to actually research the regs and caselaw). Interesting question though, and, unless there is some sweet niche market for personal brewing assistants that I don't know about, one of first impression.
 
If you keep a bottle, and he participates in the process somehow (like... taking the yeast vial out of the fridge :)) then you could probably just call it two guys brewing together for personal use!

I give away more stuff than I drink myself, sometimes brewing a batch suggested by somebody else and keeping only a small fraction of it, never asking for a dime, but for entirely selfish reasons. I don't actually drink a ton, and this is the best way for me to justify brewing as often as I'd like to. Of course when people subsequently form the opinion I'm an extremely generous person and offer to buy me a few rounds in return, treat me to a nice dinner, or whatever else, I'm in no hurry to shatter that illusion :D
 
winnph said:
So, does anyone know if it's illegal to outsource your homebrewing allotment (200 gallons/household/year, I believe, or something like that)? I was sitting around with some friends the other day and it occurred to me that while I have next to no interest starting a brewery, it would be pretty awesome to be hired by some multimillionaire to be his personal brewer. I don't know any such multimillionaires, but there must be some out there somewhere. If people have personal chefs, personal assistants, and all the rest, why not a personal brewer?

Despite being a lawyer, I have not looked into this issue at all, and know very little about the nuances of brewing laws. I'm sure I could spend some time digging around and find an answer, but I don't really have that time right now.

Obviously in this hypothetical, fantasy world, the multimillionaire could just hire a lawyer to get a license for his brewer, if it were necessary, but I'm still curious about the underlying question of whether someone can pay someone else to brew his annual allotment. If so, seems like a gaping loophole someone should be walking through.
Click to expand...

Since we are in 'Fantasy World", I wonder if my ass would melt if the wings on my eyebrows carried me too close to the brightest star in the next galaxy? Jesus man, maybe stick to posting when you are sober. Sorry, no spare millionaires on hand who are stupid enough to pay someone to brew beer for them when they should be able to afford the best beer in the world any time they want.
 
There is a contest going on by me by a pretty sweet pizza shop with 25 taps to brew them a House Triple IPA that will be produced by Troegs for them. SO its legal in PA I would assume
 
It'd probably depend on the state laws too, aren't there some states that don't allow others to assist in brewing? Or maybe I'm thinking that they can't consume beer, unless they've helped in the brewing process.

It's probably pretty doable. There was some info not too long ago about white house beer where the chef was the one who did the homebrew, but the prez personally paid for the equipment. Doesn't that make some sort of precedent? (Even if it's not a legal precedent.)

*edit* I know. I was thinking of the thread that you can't sell or barter away your homebrew. The other drinkers had to have had an active role in brewing and drink it for free. Fuzzy details about people just giving you grain, extract or hops and coming back later might work, but that giving it in return for beer already created would be pretty dodgy. And that area wouldn't apply in this part.
 
I was about to say the same thing as above about the president. He has a paid federal employee brew his beer. So I would assume it could only be legal to do so
 
Being a lawyer I know it may be hard but...just break the law man, list your occupation as consultant, write off all your own homebrew expenses as R&D, and live the life...:mug:
 
bovineblitz said:
Have the millionaire legally adopt you, then you can brew for him all you wants and he can pay you all he wants.
Click to expand...

You could even just move in with them. Since the laws to my knowledge pertain to people living within the same household, you could legally brew all the beer for you and your "roommate" up to the 200 gallon limit.
 
No - it is not a cap and trade program. It is a legal limit set per person/household.

You could likely brew within his limit as an agent, so long as the brewing was done within his household, but once you exhaust his limit you could not brew under your limit and then give the beer to him.
 
ReverseApacheMaster said:
No - it is not a cap and trade program. It is a legal limit set per person/household.

You could likely brew within his limit as an agent, so long as the brewing was done within his household, but once you exhaust his limit you could not brew under your limit and then give the beer to him.
Click to expand...


I was only thinking of the former, i.e., whether you could hire an agent to brew up to your own legal limit. What if that agent also brews for a dozen other people, in their households, as well as brewing for himself in his own household (never over the limit for any one household)?

One of the first responses suggested a mobile brewery, and I'm wondering if that might actually make this kind of business model feasible for the common man, rather than just those wealthy enough to hire a personal _____ assistant for their every desire.

This is just a thought experiment, however, I have absolutely no intention of trying to go into business as a mobile/personal brewer.
 
How about this -- the billionaire pays you a consulting fee after you discuss in detail beer styles, ingredients, etc...you brew the beer and give to him because you are such a nice guy (or he comes to your place and drinks it. He is paying for your advice.
 
I don't know if it's legal or not, but I sure as hell that I know that people who are trying to exploit loopholes in the legislation are selfish, inconsiderate ***holes who don't care about anyone but themselves and risk causing legal restrictions for the rest of us who are in it for creating liquid art without profit motive, simply for the enjoyment of ourselves and our friends.

Edit: Yes I am drunk, and I may or may not be playing devil's advocate. Who cares at this point, I am happy :)
 
BendBrewer said:
I know the Mods won't like it but at some point you just have to say F.O. to the man when the reality of the situation dictates. Know any home brewers that have been popped for exceeding the limit? Me either.

I have no idea where the Feds would even come up with the money to screw with you as long as you kept it under the radar. I understand the desire to be by the book, but who here drives the speed limit? I am calling for Brewers to start pushing the envelope. What are they going to do?

Viva Wisconsin!
Click to expand...

If anything, the 100/gal limit just exists to separate what is homebrewing from what is professional brewing. Prevents breweries from trying to claim "homebrew" status as an attempt to circumvent acquiring a license.
 
ReverseApacheMaster said:
No - it is not a cap and trade program. It is a legal limit set per person/household.

You could likely brew within his limit as an agent, so long as the brewing was done within his household, but once you exhaust his limit you could not brew under your limit and then give the beer to him.
Click to expand...

What if you love him?

Not judging, just askin'.
 

Similar threads

D
I broke a lot of rules
Replies
34
Views
2K
beren
beren
orgenomescii
Brewing like a Barbarian: Ancient Irish Descriptions of Malting & Brewing
Replies
2
Views
1K
McMullan
McMullan
kurds_2408
Question about adding DME after bad efficiency.
Replies
8
Views
927
z-bob
z-bob
Tony B
First batch
Replies
10
Views
730
Kornssj
Kornssj
NobleNewt
Northern Brewer - Buyer Beware
4 5 6
Replies
222
Views
17K
whoaru99
W
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top