Corking Belgian Ales

I have a belgian dubbel in secondary right now and it's going to be ready to be bottled in a couple of weeks.

I've saved up a bunch of 750ml Ommegang Abbey Ale bottles. I think they are European-style champagne bottles, but I'm not sure. They have a wide top so my capper will not work with them so I've decided to cork them instead.

My LHBS sells belgian corks and they recommended a corker they have for sale but it's far more than I want to spend (I think it's $90). I was looking online and it seems like the gilda hand corker corker might work. Does anyone have any experience with this corker? Also, I don't know if the belgian corks are the right size for my Ommegang bottles. They don't quite look like the "belgian" bottles they sell at the LHBS and look more the champagne bottles they sell. Are the openings different sizes?

Basically, I'm looking for a cheap and easy way to seal these bottles, whether it be corks or caps. They will be carbonated to 3.75+ vol so whatever mechanism I use needs to be fairly strong.

I just used Belgian corks from NB in a bunch of ommegang/duvel bottles and had no problems so far, though they're still aging so I can't say for certain that pressure has held properly. In any case, make sure you get the wire baskets, too.

I've never used the Gilda hand corker, but from my experience with a bench capper a hand corker sounds like it would be MIGHTY hard to use with Belgians.

I corked a dubbel some time ago and followed these directions:
How to Cork a Belgian.

They came out great, and it's the perfect look to a traditional Belgian Beer

Neat! I just found this thread when I was looking for some clarification on Belgian corks and what the process entailed in getting them into bottles.

Thanks for the URL!

If you have the cheapo red wing-capper, they are meant for 26mm diameter caps and 29mm diameter caps.

First step, buy the 29mm capping bell (about $3). Unscrew the old bell and screw in the new bell. Make sure you get the right threads though - they sell both male and female threads.

Then, if you look at the bottom of the capper you'll see some metal plates that slide together to push around the bell. Those are reversible. The standard size is 26mm, but if you flip them around they'll fit 29mm caps. Use a screwdriver to slide them out, then turn them around and pop them back in.

I used a cheap portuguese floor corker (ebay) and corks and wire cages (from morebeer.) I carbonated to 3.0 volumes last time, and the carbonation was perfect, but not high enough to pop the cork without mechanical assistance (strong thumbs were not enough - risk of splitting cork.) So, if you are using thick belgian bottles and corks, then I recommend going to at least 3.5 volumes.

The ommegang and chimay bottles were great - but the rodenbach bottles imparted tang to my dubbel even though they were thoroughly CIP'ed and sanitized...bugs are very hardy!

You can't cap the Ommegang style bottles. There is no where for a cap to grab on and crimp.

smokinghole said:

You can't cap the Ommegang style bottles. There is no where for a cap to grab on and crimp.

Click to expand...

My apologies; I haven't bought Hennepin in awhile. The red wing capper works great for bottles that can be capped, but use the wider diameter caps.

No prob you can cap champagne bottles all day. There are two flavors one that takes the larger caps as you described. The other takes 26mm caps. It's a difference between US and European I think.

blizzard said:

If you have the cheapo red wing-capper, they are meant for 26mm diameter caps and 29mm diameter caps.

First step, buy the 29mm capping bell (about $3). Unscrew the old bell and screw in the new bell. Make sure you get the right threads though - they sell both male and female threads.

Then, if you look at the bottom of the capper you'll see some metal plates that slide together to push around the bell. Those are reversible. The standard size is 26mm, but if you flip them around they'll fit 29mm caps. Use a screwdriver to slide them out, then turn them around and pop them back in.

Click to expand...

I wish I had that capper, but I have a cheap black capper that came with my brewing kit. I figure if I have to buy another capper to deal with bigger caps, I might as well get a corker and do that instead.

With corks in the Belgian bottles, do you need to put them on their side to keep the cork wet and the bottle properly sealed? If so, do you need to do that during the carbonation time, or do you just do it after?

I ask since I've never used the style of bottles, but am considering them to bottle up at least part of my BarleyWine. I'll be carbonating that rather low (to 1.3-1.4 CO2 volumes), so I don't think there will be much risk of popping corks (will still use the wire cage on them though)...

I know I can get the Belgian bottles in the 750ml size, but are they offered in smaller sizes too? I think that a 750ml bottle of this BarleyWine should be shared by two or three people (it's strong stuff)... I'm trying to find 375ml bottles that I can also cork, for the BarleyWine... WITHOUT needing to spend ~$150 for a champagne corker...

You can use a regular floor corker for belgian corks. I have never needed to keep the corks wet - they go in dry and hold pressure just fine, even at 4 volumes.

Golddiggie said:

With corks in the Belgian bottles, do you need to put them on their side to keep the cork wet and the bottle properly sealed? If so, do you need to do that during the carbonation time, or do you just do it after?

Click to expand...

for what it's worth, I've always been told to NOT keep beers on their sides. I don't have any particular insight as to why that is, but upright is what I have always done. Similarly, I soak my corks for a few minutes in stars an before I apply them. I don't suspect it is necessary for closurem but I like to do it for sanitation purposes.

I'll be carbonating the BarleyWine to 1.3-1.4 CO2 volumes... Do you think I'll still need to use the cork cage? The only reason I ask is the LHBS only had a dozen cages in stock (got wiped out late last week, replacements have not arrived yet)... I can try ordering more online, so that I can bottle this weekend. Just need to be sure that things will be ok either way...

I did pick up the floor corker. There was one that was table top based, with a bottle capping option, but I'm trying to stay away from using bottle caps whenever possible...

Golddiggie said:

I'll be carbonating the BarleyWine to 1.3-1.4 CO2 volumes... Do you think I'll still need to use the cork cage? The only reason I ask is the LHBS only had a dozen cages in stock (got wiped out late last week, replacements have not arrived yet)... I can try ordering more online, so that I can bottle this weekend. Just need to be sure that things will be ok either way...

I did pick up the floor corker. There was one that was table top based, with a bottle capping option, but I'm trying to stay away from using bottle caps whenever possible...

Click to expand...

Definitely still want cages. Any positive pressure at all will gradually push those suckers out.

When corking bottles be sure the level of liquid in the bottle is close to being the same.
The remaining air in the bottle is compressed between the cork and the liquid. Variances in the level will change the depth into the bottle the cork will seat.

Malfet, how long have you aged the corked beers? I was wondering about long term storage without keeping the cork wet.

P.S. Belgian beer bottles can not be capped they can only be corked.

BierSnob said:

When corking bottles be sure the level of liquid in the bottle is close to being the same.
The remaining air in the bottle is compressed between the cork and the liquid. Variances in the level will change the depth into the bottle the cork will seat.

Malfet, how long have you aged the corked beers? I was wondering about long term storage without keeping the cork wet.

P.S. Belgian beer bottles can not be capped they can only be corked.

Click to expand...

In theory, corked beers age well. I've not personally done it for longer than a year, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work

How much space should I leave under the cork?

I was hoping that using the bottling wand would leave enough space (once it was removed) so that it would carbonate properly.

Does anyone that uses the Belgian bottles, and corks, place the brew in it's side to keep the cork wet? I ask again only because the guide that CyclingCraig posted a link to mentions that he does/did...

I have the floor corker now, so I'll do a dry run (no cork, empty bottle) to figure out how deep to set the plunger for the bottles, and corks.

I ordered up some more corks and cages, tonight, from Rebel Brewer, since they offer faster shipping (MidWest doesn't offer anything faster than 'ground')... I need these items before the weekend, so I picked 2nd day FedEx... Figure that even with the snow we're getting, I should see the stuff before the weekend.

If this works out well, I can see using this method for my higher ABV brews. Ones that I want people to share with others.

Of course, I was going to get a floor corker eventually, since I also have batches of mead in process. So the BarleyWine just moved the time frame up a little.

I do wish that they made bottles in sizes other than 750ml, or in addition to that size... I'd love to be able to put some into 375ml or even 500ml bottles and cork them too.

BTW, It's pretty much a no-brainer that caps won't work with Belgian bottles... Once you look at them, and either read any info, or talk with anyone (with half a brain left) at a LHBS that stocks them.

MalFet said:

In theory, corked beers age well. I've not personally done it for longer than a year, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work

Click to expand...

You age them standing up/vertical, or on their sides to keep their cork wet... That just sounds so wrong...

Golddiggie said:

You age them standing up/vertical, or on their sides to keep their cork wet... That just sounds so wrong...

Click to expand...

Standing up. I don't have a good explanation behind that, but it's always what I've been told to do and have seen others doing.

I left about 2 inches from the top of the neck, I'd say.

I've seen 375mL champagne bottles for sale before at various LHBS.

Filling with the wand is just fine just make sure you stop at the same place every time. My wand sticks some times so I get extra beer in the bottles. I guess its time to buy a new one. Someone mentioned wing cappers earlier in the thread. I got the champangne floor corker for both mead and Belgians. Bottled 2 cases of Belgians. 1 case of sparkling mead in champangne bottles. and I don't remember how many cases of mead. A 1/2 inch filling wand leaves to much head space so I wouldn't recomend it.

I use the plastic Champagne stoppers that my lhbs has: push them in by hand, and then tighten the wire cage. The plastic stoppers are reusable and you don't have to buy a floor corker. (i only use ommegang bottles, i've found that other belgian style bottles are either too tight or don't seal well)

I think the reason that any bottle conditioned beer is stored upright is to keep the yeast sediment on the bottom when you pour.

Cheers,
John

MalFet said:

Standing up. I don't have a good explanation behind that, but it's always what I've been told to do and have seen others doing.

I left about 2 inches from the top of the neck, I'd say.

I've seen 375mL champagne bottles for sale before at various LHBS.

Click to expand...

The LHBS I usually visit doesn't have the 375ml champagne bottles... Only 750ml and 187ml... Trying to find the 375ml online, in something other than clear... I would LOVE to find black ones, in almost any size (prefer 375ml and 750ml, not sure if there are any other sizes between)...

The black or dark amber 375s from what I understand are only made for Russian River or Port brewing. They split the costs associated with having the bottles made for their breweries. Then again the story I heard could be wrong!

I would store them on their side so the cork doesn't dry out. Of course this requires a little planning when you want to drink the beer. You just have to place the beer upright a week or so before opening. You should not have a problem. It's no different than port wines. They tend to have a sediment in the bottle and even a white mark to indicate where "UP" for the bottle has been over time. Then before you plan on drinking the port upright the bottle and you're good to go.


For the store on the side naysayers I'm sure Cantillion knows what they're doing.

Well, I am going to use these for a BarleyWine, so it's not too much of a stretch to place them on their sides. If it was a regular beer in there, they probably won't be around long enough to let the corks dry out to the point of breaking inside the bottle.

Once they've carbonated fully, I might just make sure I have one, or two, in the fridge at all times. I could also just plan when I'll be opening up one a few days ahead, and upright it in time to get the trub to go to the bottom (I hope)...

Depending on how this works out, I might use them for my Braggot when it's ready for bottles (have yet to even brew that, so we're talking months from now)...

I think I'll need to get another wine rack, or a few of them, so that I can store these on their side... The rack I do have places the bottles on a down-slope with the cork being lower than the rest (ensures full contact). Would that work too, or would I be better off 100% horizontal?

I don't mind laying them down, I just want to make sure this brew stays good for as long as possible. Looks like I'll really need to move sooner than I thought, with needing to keep these types of bottles laying down and all that... See that as a win-win...

You can buy 500ml Belgian crown tops and 500ml swing tops, too. Of course, you have to buy them by the pallet, but you will eventually use them all. : )

meadowstream said:

You can buy 500ml Belgian crown tops and 500ml swing tops, too. Of course, you have to buy them by the pallet, but you will eventually use them all. : )

Click to expand...

When I have a place to store them all (either empty, or filled) I'll look at that... Right now, I'm in a 1 bedroom apartment...

The LHBS said to soak the corks in sulfatis (from a Campden tablet is supposed to work well) for sanitation I believe... Thinking that I might just let the corks sit in some StarSan solution instead while I'm filling the bottles. I'm sure a soak of 30-60 minutes won't be bad, right?

I'm thinking that I'll fill, cork, cage, then let stay upright for a day, before laying them down for the duration. I plan on placing them into a plastic storage bin, so that even if there's an "accident" I won't have a large mess to cleanup. I will be doing a 'dummy run' with the bottling wand I have, to see how much I need to fill them in order to get the 2" from the lip target. If I recall correctly, you want to leave about 1/2-3/4" of the cork above the lip, right?

Looking at bottling this first batch up later on today... If things go well, I might just use these bottles for my bigger brews... Maybe some others too, if I like the results... Especially since the LHBS seems to have plenty of the bottles on hand. Plus I found a better source for the corks and cages than them...

Just curious if anyone has tried freezing the corks to make them contract , then pushing them in by hand. I have a belgian tripel kegged , but I only want to bottle 5 or 6 big bottles, so buying a corker would not be cost effective for me.Theoretically freezing the cork should make it slightly smaller to make it easier to push into the room temp bottle, then it should expand again when it warms up....of course in practice this may not work since the cork will be frozen and not as pliable....anyone ever try this?

Set the cork depth so that the cage just fits under the top. I would let it carb fully before setting the bottles on their side. I do this to insure the cork fully seals before allowing the liquid to contact the cork. Keeps the beer from pushing between the cork and bottle ( this happened with my sparkling mead ). The cork won't dry out in a months time.

BierSnob said:

Set the cork depth so that the cage just fits under the top. I would let it carb fully before setting the bottles on their side. I do this to insure the cork fully seals before allowing the liquid to contact the cork. Keeps the beer from pushing between the cork and bottle ( this happened with my sparkling mead ). The cork won't dry out in a months time.

Click to expand...

Great advise... I'll go with that method for this round... I figured that if I leave about 3/4" of the cork exposed, the cages will fit nicely. Plus, it will give me about an inch space between the top of the brew and the bottom of the cork... I've also set the depth limiter on the corker so that I won't insert them too far.

I ran out of time to bottle last night. I didn't prime, or transfer to the bottling bucket yet, so it's all good. Just means that the carboy has been where it's sitting fro more hours. Ready to be racked to the bottling bucket at any time. I need to pull a hydrometer sample, prime and bottle it up soon.

Depending on how this session goes, I might use the Belgian bottles for more brews. Will the corks expand back out if given enough time, or once they are compressed into the bottle, they stay that size/shape?

This brew is in the 9-10% ABV range, so it could take a while to carb... Especially since I'm carbonating it on the low end of the scale.

To ensure carbonation you can always add a touch of champagne yeast at bottling. I do that on my bigger brews as added $1 per packet insurance.

smokinghole said:

To ensure carbonation you can always add a touch of champagne yeast at bottling. I do that on my bigger brews as added $1 per packet insurance.

Click to expand...

I added some yeast a couple of weeks back, since I wasn't sure if the original yeast was done, but there was still fermentable sugars left. Doesn't look like it did too much (if anything) to the FG numbers.

Since this is my first time using the Belgian style bottles, I'm learning what needs to be done to get them right. Next batch should be much better. I figure that if the cork is a little low, the carbonation will push it up a hair (to where the cage can really grip)... I do plan on adding something to help stop the corker when it's at the correct depth for next time.

I'm actually looking at bottling up an old ale in some more of these bottles (pretty cheap for a case, so why not) next weekend. The old ale is in the 8-9% ABV range... Thinking that I can add the EC-1118 yeast to it a few days before I rack to the bottling bucket. Or would you just add it along with the priming solution? With the old ale, I am going after more carbonation (about 2.2-2.4 volumes)... I'm planning on taking a SG reading, and taste within the next couple of days. If it still isn't where I want it (more for flavor) then I'll let it ride another week (it's sitting on oak chips right now)... I've had it on oak since 1/14/11, so another week (or two) shouldn't hurt... Looking at a total of at least a month with medium toast oak for that one.

I add the yeast right in the bottling bucket. Not an entire packet about a half teaspoon. Based on the assumption there's approx 20billion cells of yeast per gram of dry yeast so even using as little as 1g measured you'd have plenty. I never measured a half teaspoon of dry yeast but it isn't much.

I added a whole propagator to the bottling bucket of the original Wyeast strain what was used during ferment.
According to Brew Like a Monk Belgian brewerys add around 3 million cells per milliliter. Most strains of beer yeast are good to about 10% the Belgian strongs are a bit more. At least the ones I've used.

So I asked for and was "given" a hand corker for my belgian style bottles. Now, after reading I get the impression that you really need a floor/bench corker to get the cork into the bottles. Can I get some insight from those that have worked with a hand corker? Is it hard/worth the effort or should I just go and buy the larger capping bell for my hand capper? I appreciate the difference in appearance between a capped and wired cork, but I am after ease rather than toil.

Thanks,

Sheldon