Could wasabi kill yeast?

So I put a good 43 grams of crystallized wasabi powder into a 5 gallon bucket, right after transferring to my bottling bucket, after the first fermentation. Actually, the brew sat a day before I did this without priming sugar or the wasabi, as my brother forgot the step and I had to go back and boil the priming sugar and all. At that time, I played scientist and boiled the wasabi with the priming sugar, dumped it into the brew and mixed and let it sit for another day before bottling.

I'm super concerned about the wasabi killing whatever suspended yeast was left, preventing the brew from carbonating. I'm working with a short timeline here - the beer needs to be ready for a party on the 14th of August. Right now all the bottles are on the floor in my bedroom, which has to be a good 80 degrees, at least. Yet I'm seeing no carbonation in the bottle, whatsoever. Completely flat.

So again, a.) would the wasabi kill the yeast? And b.) what could I do to carbonate the beer? Thinking about purchasing carbonation tabs. How long does that process take? And if the wasabi killed the yeast, would I have to introduce more yeast?

Carbonation takes 2-3 weeks...I usually do not get acceptable results until the 3 week mark. Wasabi powder might have had perservative that would have killed your yeast. Or maybe, it was the Wasabi itself.

Sorry, bad news either way...not enough time to carbonate, and you might have killed your yeast.

Only way you could carbonate and be sure it will be ready to serve is to open the bottles and put them all in a keg to force carbonate. There you risk oxidation of the beer, though.

Honestly don't know. I think this is the first time I have ever heard of Wasabi in beer.

Not sure about the wasabi. It may have killed them but who knows. When you say that you see no carbonation in the beer what do you mean? You will see no visible signs until you open the bottle to try one. And like broadbill said, you wont see any signs for maybe a week and a half or so i would think. And even more so, they wont really be ready to drink for about 3 weeks (and some would say that this is too early too). If it doesn't carb up eventually, I would go the kegging route if you have the option availible.

Cheers. I wouldn't know how to go about kegging, as this is my first homebrew. Is there a way to do that on the cheap?

I'd be interested in buying one of those soda carbonators, as well, if I could use it for another purpose.

What about the carbonation tabs? Still a three-week timeline?

Carbonation tabs from what I know are just pre measured amounts of priming sugar that you add to the bottles instead of the batch as a whole. I have never used them but I'm pretty sure it takes the same amount of time.

Kegging is not too expensive once you get the supplies and keggorator and makes my life a lot easier. Imagine bottling day with one big bottle instead of 40 little ones.

Anyway, I used to bottle condition and it would take 3 to 4 weeks for them to be "good". any amount of time longer than that just made them better.

How long have you had them bottled? did you open one yet or were you looking for signs of carbonation in the unopened bottle?

Oh and Lastly, Wasabi in the first beer youve ever made?? strange choice... I love wasabi but I would get the hang of making some standards first before going off the grid.

Let me know if I need to make one though..

I'm loooking for signs in the unopened bottles. I mean, they're gifts for people, really, a novelty American Pale Ale with wasabi in it. It's probably not going to taste that great. If the wasabi hasn't killed the yeast, then I guess I could just give them to people and tell them not to open them for a few weeks, ha. But much of the fun of the brew was to put it into a bottle and design a label that coincides with the party I'm throwing. So I'm hesitant to keg it. If I opened up all the bottles and found a cheap way to keg it, could I re-introduce them back into the bottles before the party? Would that work?

LordGavinhopkins said:

I'm loooking for signs in the unopened bottles. I mean, they're gifts for people, really, a novelty American Pale Ale with wasabi in it. It's probably not going to taste that great. If the wasabi hasn't killed the yeast, then I guess I could just give them to people and tell them not to open them for a few weeks, ha. But much of the fun of the brew was to put it into a bottle and design a label that coincides with the party I'm throwing. So I'm hesitant to keg it. If I opened up all the bottles and found a cheap way to keg it, could I re-introduce them back into the bottles before the party? Would that work?

Click to expand...

I hear ya. If you were looking for signs in unopened bottles you may have nuthing to worry about. Chill one a for a day or two and try one before the party. It may be carbonated fine like any other bottle of beer... I don't think that wasabi would kill the yeast but like I said, who knows.. If not, then worry. The only thing that may get you even if it does carbonate is that it won't be at a decent carbonation level for about 3 weeks minimum after bottling. It may be drinkable, just not at its best.

LordGavinhopkins said:

I'm loooking for signs in the unopened bottles. I mean, they're gifts for people, really, a novelty American Pale Ale with wasabi in it. It's probably not going to taste that great. If the wasabi hasn't killed the yeast, then I guess I could just give them to people and tell them not to open them for a few weeks, ha. But much of the fun of the brew was to put it into a bottle and design a label that coincides with the party I'm throwing. So I'm hesitant to keg it. If I opened up all the bottles and found a cheap way to keg it, could I re-introduce them back into the bottles before the party? Would that work?

Click to expand...

Okay, kegging is not hard, but it is a money outlay. For instance, a decent setup is in the several hundred dollar range going from "no equipment" to "can force carb beer in a keg".

Also, like brewing, there is a bit of a learning curve with kegging. You can bottle from a keg, but it takes even more equipment.

I think it's hilarious that you decided to brew beer for this party, but if I were you I'd be ready to be a bit disappointed. Sorry. You have an option... buy a microbrew IPA. Open a bottle, add wasabi, and then use your bottle capper and new caps to re-cap it. Either put your custom label right over the top of the beer, or peel off the old label and then put your label on it.

Frankly, beer with wasabi in it sounds more like a prank than a brew I'd want to drink on purpose. My $.02

I had a Wasabi Horseradish Kolsch at Right Brain in Traverse City. Pretty good beer. not spicy like you'd think and there was just a hint of the wasabi and horseradish. Since they force carb, I have no idea if wasabi would kill your yeast or not. Sorry.

Just wanted to relate the story about the wasabi beer...

If you let it sit for another day before bottling the yeast most likely consumed the small amount of sugar used for priming in that time period.

It really doesn't take long for healthy yeast to eat the sugar in the bottle and produce CO2. The part that takes 3 weeks is absorbing the CO2 into solution so the beer will be carbonated.

My guess is, there was no sugar in that beer when you bottled, thus there was no CO2 produced.

BrookdaleBrew said:

If you let it sit for another day before bottling the yeast most likely consumed the small amount of sugar used for priming in that time period.

It really doesn't take long for healthy yeast to eat the sugar in the bottle and produce CO2. The part that takes 3 weeks is absorbing the CO2 into solution so the beer will be carbonated.

My guess is, there was no sugar in that beer when you bottled, thus there was no CO2 produced.

Click to expand...

I just reread the OP and I think BrookdaleBrew is right on the money. Wasabi or no, the fatal error here was adding priming sugar and then waiting another day before bottling.

Here is what I would do:
1. Open a bottle now. Is it carbonated? (I don't think it will be) Taste it...is the wasabi flavor over the top? If it is, DON'T give it to your friends. They won't enjoy it and they won't drink it.

2. If the wasabi flavor is tolerable, then use Munton Carb Tabs to carb...feel free to give to your friends and tell them wait 4 weeks before drinking.

3 (optional...just b/c I don't really like telling people how to enjoy their hobby):
Reign in the creativity and learn to make good beer before making "wild" beers. By going and adding weird stuff to your beer, you are bound to have more misses that hits. Brewing is alot of work and expense only to ruin the final product with adding some whacky ingredient. Again, this is just one man's opinion...

BrookdaleBrew said:

If you let it sit for another day before bottling the yeast most likely consumed the small amount of sugar used for priming in that time period.

It really doesn't take long for healthy yeast to eat the sugar in the bottle and produce CO2. The part that takes 3 weeks is absorbing the CO2 into solution so the beer will be carbonated.

My guess is, there was no sugar in that beer when you bottled, thus there was no CO2 produced.

Click to expand...

this. If true, opening each bottle and adding carb tabs should to the trick.

I highly doubt wasabi, which is just horseradish, had any effect on the yeast. Now, if the ingredients of your wasabi powder included sodium sorbate, benzoate, etc, you might have an issue.

BrookdaleBrew said:

If you let it sit for another day before bottling the yeast most likely consumed the small amount of sugar used for priming in that time period.

It really doesn't take long for healthy yeast to eat the sugar in the bottle and produce CO2. The part that takes 3 weeks is absorbing the CO2 into solution so the beer will be carbonated.

My guess is, there was no sugar in that beer when you bottled, thus there was no CO2 produced.

Click to expand...

Yes. Letting it sit for a day before bottling and after adding the priming sugar means that you don't have any priming sugar going into the bottle to cause carbonation.

That's probably the mistake. Don't let primed beer sit more than the time it takes to put it in the bottle.

I personally think wasabi is a huge mistake, but that's not why you don't have carbonation. That'll be a taste issue.

Good call on the priming sugar.

I think I was too focused on the Wasabi. I Love Wasabi, but don't know about it in beer.

passedpawn said:

this. If true, opening each bottle and adding carb tabs should to the trick.

I highly doubt wasabi, which is just horseradish, had any effect on the yeast. Now, if the ingredients of your wasabi powder included sodium sorbate, benzoate, etc, you might have an issue.

Click to expand...

Actually, wasabi is a root that acts just like horseradish only stronger. Most places that sell wasabi however, just use horseradish and green food coloring.

dfc said:

Actually, wasabi is a root that acts just like horseradish only stronger. Most places that sell wasabi however, just use horseradish and green food coloring.

Click to expand...

well there you go, I learned something new. thanks!

DustinHickey said:

I hear ya. If you were looking for signs in unopened bottles you may have nuthing to worry about. Chill one a for a day or two and try one before the party. It may be carbonated fine like any other bottle of beer... I don't think that wasabi would kill the yeast but like I said, who knows.. If not, then worry. The only thing that may get you even if it does carbonate is that it won't be at a decent carbonation level for about 3 weeks minimum after bottling. It may be drinkable, just not at its best.

Click to expand...

Guys, Read OP more carefully. The wort sat for a day before he added the priming sugar, not after. He should have no problems. he was looking for evidence of carbonation in unopened bottles. As we all know, you have to open a bottle to see evedence of carbonation as stated above.

for everyone who is wondering why wasabi was put in beer. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/761/3515/?ba=smp9737

I kinda want to try it now

DustinHickey said:

Guys, Read OP more carefully. The wort sat for a day before he added the priming sugar, not after. He should have no problems. he was looking for evidence of carbonation in unopened bottles. As we all know, you have to open a bottle to see evedence of carbonation as stated above.

Click to expand...

Straight from the OP:

So I put a good 43 grams of crystallized wasabi powder into a 5 gallon bucket, right after transferring to my bottling bucket, after the first fermentation. Actually, the brew sat a day before I did this without priming sugar or the wasabi, as my brother forgot the step and I had to go back and boil the priming sugar and all. At that time, I played scientist and boiled the wasabi with the priming sugar, dumped it into the brew and mixed and let it sit for another day before bottling.

Touche.... i stand corrected.

"It has long been known that Wasabi contains natural antibiotics and it was this feature that brought Wasabi into Japanese cuisine 1300 years ago.

Isothiocyanate vapours inhibit the growthof several strains of bacteria, yeast and mould (Depree et al. 1999). Other scientific studies (Hasegawa et al. 1998, Ono et al. 1998, Shin and Lee 1999) have shown that 6-MITC from Wasabi extracts have potent anti-bacterial properties against Staphylococcus aureas and Escherichia coli, common types of bacteria leading to infections and food poisonings. "


oops!

Priemus said:

"It has long been known that Wasabi contains natural antibiotics and it was this feature that brought Wasabi into Japanese cuisine 1300 years ago.

Isothiocyanate vapours inhibit the growthof several strains of bacteria, yeast and mould (Depree et al. 1999). Other scientific studies (Hasegawa et al. 1998, Ono et al. 1998, Shin and Lee 1999) have shown that 6-MITC from Wasabi extracts have potent anti-bacterial properties against Staphylococcus aureas and Escherichia coli, common types of bacteria leading to infections and food poisonings. "

oops!

Click to expand...

Hmmm. I'm not buying it. Why? No reason at all, just intuition. Yeast is one crazy ambitious fungus, and I don't see it being affected by wasabi. No way. Anyone want to do an experiment?

^^^ That was my intuition, too. It may be something like the sulphur compounds used in winemaking: they tend to affect wild yeasts harshly but do almost nothing to cultured wine yeasts. They're simply too hardy and well-bred to be bothered by it (at the common doses, anyway). Maybe wasabi affects lesser yeasts, but not the animals in my brewery!:rockin:

passedpawn said:

Hmmm. I'm not buying it. Why? No reason at all, just intuition. Yeast is one crazy ambitious fungus, and I don't see it being affected by wasabi. No way. Anyone want to do an experiment?

Click to expand...

Are you kidding?

Do you not understand what this means when inserted into a quote:
(Depree et al. 1999) and (Hasegawa et al. 1998, Ono et al. 1998, Shin and Lee 1999).

Those are the scientific references. Call it intuition, call it multiple scientists at multiple university's publishing multiple papers concerning the topic.

Whatever floats your boat

regardless it is still too early in the game for them to be carbed, 2-3 weeks minimum, but I didnt have to search long on google to find papers regarding wasabi being a bad thing.

DustinHickey said:

Guys, Read OP more carefully. The wort sat for a day before he added the priming sugar, not after. He should have no problems. he was looking for evidence of carbonation in unopened bottles. As we all know, you have to open a bottle to see evedence of carbonation as stated above.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I missed his mistakes as well. Need to read more carefully!

Priemus said:

Are you kidding? Do you not understand what this means when inserted into a quote: ...

Click to expand...

You are surprised that I don't accept your post as proof the wasabi was the reason for the beer not carbonating. You post references that some chemical, extracted from wasabi, in some unknown amount and in vapor form, has an effect on something other than saccharomyces cerevisiae. Do those references state that 43 grams of crystallized wasabi powder will stop yeast from carbonating beer in a 5g batch?

You seem pretty passionate about this - maybe there is something there. So, how much of these Isothiocyanates, in vapor form or otherwise, exists in 43 grams of crystallized wasabi powder? How much of this substance is necessary to have any effect on anything in a 5g solution? Does it have any effect on Saccharomyces cerevisiae? Does it only inhibit growth or can it kill the yeast?

To keg, the minimum you need is a co2 tank and regulator, a used/refurbished corny keg, set of new seals, and corny keg attachments, beer hose and co2 hose, and a picnic tap. And then you need room in the fridge to put the keg and the co2 tank.

Everything but the co2 tank and regulator can be bought from the LHBS for probably $50.

The co2 tank and regulator will be a bit of an investment ($100-$120?) but if you really like brewing it will come in handy for other things like purging oxygen out of secondaries and bottles.

Then bottling from the keg will be a whole thing requiring more equipment.

HotbreakHotel said:

Everything but the co2 tank and regulator can be bought from the LHBS for probably $50.

Click to expand...

I thought a refurb corny keg alone runs $60-$75?

Wow. Now we have scientific studies about wasabi and beer.

Let's break it down like this.

The Wasabi may or may not have had an effect. Since it hasn't been done much who knows.

A Wasabi beer as a first brew is probably not a good idea.

If anyone is paying $60 for a refurbished corny, they either live in Canada or they are getting ripped off.

Huzzah for canada... I've seen a guy secondary with wasabi before... It wasn't very good mind you but it worked...

Wasabi is horseradish. Yeast is a fungus. Horseradish is a powerful anti-fungal herb.

Sorry for the bad news, I'd only try a adjunct like this if I was kegging and force carbonating, but as to your choice...hot pepper in beer is not uncommon, so I can see why you tried it.

Wasabier

As for a kegging kit, try this:
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/kits/ehpk.shtml
about $110 will get you everything including the CO2 tank. Corny kegs run $40-$50 rebuilt. Add a piece of acrylic tubing with a #2 stopper to your party tap and you're ready to bottle.

brewitall said:

Wasabi is horseradish. Yeast is a fungus. Horseradish is a powerful anti-fungal herb.

Click to expand...

Wasabi is NOT horseradish. Let's just get that straight from the start. I repeat, WASABI IS NOT HORSERADISH. Anyone who thinks wasabi is horseradish or tries to claim they are the same is full of rotted yeast cake and doesn't know what they are talking about.

Real Wasabi - Wasabia Japonica - is a brassica of family Brassicaceae. However, its genus is Wasabia and its species is Wasabia Japonica.

Horseradish is also a brassica of family Brassicaceae. However, its genus is Armoracia and its species is Armoracia Rusticana.


Now, let me tell you why you were correct in what you said.

Powdered wasabi and crystallized wasabi is usually a mixture of horseradish and mustard (both of which are related to wasabi, but are not at all the same in flavor, texture, appearance, or heat). Sometimes it will include a small percentage of real wasabi. The problem is real wasabi does not retain its heat and flavor as well as horseradish or mustard when dried out. Thus, in dried powders you usually see no more than 20% real wasabi; whereas in pastes you can see as much as 50%. However, it is extremely rare to see 100% real wasabi in anything - unless you have the actual rhizome and saw it grated. By the way, the fresh leaves are a treat to eat.

Thus, you are correct, the wasabi he used most likely was horseradish and not wasabi. Or, at least had more horseradish in it than wasabi.


Effect of wasabi on beer?

Real wasabi would kill the yeast, if you put in enough. I am not sure how much would be enough. 43g might be.

Similarly, horseradish can kill the yeast, but would require more volume than wasabi in order to kill it.

In fact, the ability to kill bacteria and eukaryotes including yeast is theorized as one of the main reasons it is used when eating sashimi; and explains why people who don't like wasabi often don't like sashimi "because it makes them sick". Furthermore, there are some alternatives to wasabi that might be interesting in beer. The top two are kinome and sansho. Note, both are anti-bacterials so could still kill the yeast.


So, the answer to the OP's question is: Yes, you could have killed your yeast with the powder you used - either because of additives or because you used enough to kill of the yeast.

Hope that helps!



- M

PS: Sorry for lecturing on real wasabi vs fake wasabi, but it gets under my skin a bit when people mix up wasabi for horseradish. In fact, I despise fake wasabi, it is not nearly as amazing a flavor and experience.

Hey Dude....I'd be interested to hear how your wasabi beer went. Even if the alcohol content was zilch and the party was a wash out ;-)

maztec said:

Wasabi is NOT horseradish. ... PS: Sorry for lecturing on real wasabi vs fake wasabi, but ....

Click to expand...

Hey, don't apologize, I really enjoyed it. Thanks for the great info!