Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Open to All!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Nottingham and Tartness
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-07-2010, 03:51 PM   #1
permo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,779
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default Nottingham and Tartness

I have had two beers, that I used nottingham on..both were brown ales with lots of roasted or caramel malts, and both fermented between 62 and 64 degrees. They have a very cloying tartness that I notice, but some folks love it and the beers are very dry. I would like to avoid this tartness.

I just made a cream ale with nottingham, and I let the fermentation get to 69 degrees at it's peak, you can't hide off flavors in a cream ale, and there is no sign of tartness or off flavors at all.

I am wondering if anybody else has noticed this with nottingham, and if there is a way I can avoid it? My thinking is to bring it up near 70 degrees towards the end of fermentation....or maybe it is a dark/roasted malt issue with Nottingham?


I did email a question regarding this tartness to danstar today and I will post the answer on this thread if I get one.

Not sure.



permo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,244
Liked 97 Times on 86 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

... or maybe a dark grain problem when combined with your water....

I had a friend in VA (HBT's "Dude") who claimed that he absolutely could not brew dark beers using his tap water because they always had off flavors.


__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 04:09 PM   #3
permo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,779
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
... or maybe a dark grain problem when combined with your water....

I had a friend in VA (HBT's "Dude") who claimed that he absolutely could not brew dark beers using his tap water because they always had off flavors.
I have brewed great stouts with US-05 before with my water, with no tartness. But I do think you may be on to something. I have now began filtering my water, so maybe it is a dark grain, and water issue. A quick online search showed that other folks also get a tartness sometimes from notty.

I am concerned, because I plan on using notty for my Arrogant Bastard clone tomorow and I don't want tart...although the hops would probably mask it.
permo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 04:15 PM   #4
azscoob
Brewpub coming soon!
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
azscoob's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 7,525
Liked 230 Times on 183 Posts
Likes Given: 215

Default

I suspect water issues as well, I cannot brew any light colored or hoppy beers with my tap water, a malty red or stout is great with it, but for most other beers I mix RO with tap. I ferment most of my Notty beers at 60 degrees and have no tartness at all, they come out very clean.
Your water may be more suited to the lighter beers where mine is the opposite, get a water analysis done so you know for sure and adjust with salts or RO to correct for the beer being brewed
__________________
Shirts n Steins: Grain Reaper Brewing
azscoob is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 04:17 PM   #5
mithion
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 395
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

I'm no chemical expert, but I'm almost certain dark grains will make your beer more acidic. I've only begun reading on the subject of water chemistry, but I think adding the right levels of the relevant minerals helps to curb those effects. Also, you mentioned your beers turned out pretty dry. It's my experience that carbonic acids that come from CO2 carbonation tend to stick out more when the beer is particularly dry. So that may be contributing on top of the dark grains to a general tartness. If these were all grain beers, try mashing a couple of degrees hotter to get a bit more residual sugars which will mask the carbonic tartness a bit better.
__________________
Primary:
Secondary: Chimay Tripel #1
Conditioning: The Day After Christmas Eve Old Ale, Phil's Classic English #2
Drinking: Irish Rebellion
Next Beer: Earthly Brown
mithion is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 04:46 PM   #6
permo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,779
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I am going to mash my Arrogant Bastard at 154 and hope for the best! I am also hoping that the addition of charcoal filtered water and the usage of my fancy new wort chiller, make my latest brews my best yet.

I am going to have to send in a sample of water for analysis as I can't get my hands on a water report for some reason.
permo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 05:24 PM   #7
legaleagle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 106
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

If Notty takes your final gravity down pretty low (like 1.080 or below), then my experience is that it will be dry tasting with tartness (same beer/wort using a different, less attenuating yeast finishing at 1.011 left me a rounded, fuller flavor with no hint of tartness). If you are not able to use 2 different yeasts on the same wort like I do, then another way to test and see if it is a water/dark grain issue or Notty would be to mash your next beer at a higher temp (like 158-ish degrees) and do a mash-out after 60 minutes to lock in dextrins and unfermentables. Then rack the beer off the yeast after not more than 10 days in primary and cold crash. This would likely prevent Notty from fully attenuating the beer and keep your final gravity above 1.010. If the tartness is gone, then Notty is likely imparting the tartness thru its well-known ability to fully attenuate; if it is still there, then the water/dark malt issue prolly deserves a closer look.
__________________
"If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes..."
legaleagle is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 08:21 PM   #8
jjones17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Posts: 617
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I have an answer for you that is likely the cure for your issue - this happened to me with notty, and once with US-05.

Whenever I ferment a dry ale using either of these yeasts I often get a tartness that is difficult to describe. Lo and behold, the tartness goes away completely after about 10 weeks in the bottle and I am left with an awesome beer.

I dont know why, but this yeast appears to leave behind detectable tartness that is more noticible when there is not as many dextrins (or excessive hops) to mask it.

Seriously, give it a few more weeks and you might be suprised. Kind of sucks to bottle condition that long though.
jjones17 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 08:23 PM   #9
permo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,779
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjones17 View Post
I have an answer for you that is likely the cure for your issue - this happened to me with notty, and once with US-05.

Whenever I ferment a dry ale using either of these yeasts I often get a tartness that is difficult to describe. Lo and behold, the tartness goes away completely after about 10 weeks in the bottle and I am left with an awesome beer.

I dont know why, but this yeast appears to leave behind detectable tartness that is more noticible when there is not as many dextrins (or excessive hops) to mask it.

Seriously, give it a few more weeks and you might be suprised. Kind of sucks to bottle condition that long though.
In homebrewing, just like most things in life, time heals everything. Well, time hurts most IPA's!
permo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 04:38 AM   #10
jjones17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Posts: 617
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
In homebrewing, just like most things in life, time heals everything. Well, time hurts most IPA's!
Yeah true. I have only made 1 IPA that actually got better with time. It had a crapload of aroma hops though.


jjones17 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
the tartness in a saison -- where does it come from? RBlagojevich General Techniques 12 06-21-2009 11:44 PM
Tartness myleviathan Cider Forum 7 08-15-2008 01:49 PM
Tartness, what can i do? Klainmeister Cider Forum 3 08-15-2007 07:52 PM
hefe tartness Denny's Evil Concoctions General Techniques 7 04-27-2007 01:06 AM
Balancing Tartness? MarkUsBrew Recipes/Ingredients 3 04-28-2006 05:02 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS