Is it ok to add 2 vials of yeast today and 1 tomorrow?

Just finished a stout. I ended up high on my numbers--OG should have been 1.049. It ended up at 1.058.

Mr. Malty now says with the higher OG that I will need 2.8 vials of yeast instead of the 2 I bought.

Do I really need to buy the 3rd vial? If so, can I pitch the 2 vials right now and pitch the 3rd on Thursday afternoon?

2 is fine. You won't notice a difference... especially on a stout.

I agree...and by the time you would have pitched that third vial the yeast population will already be so large that you won't really be increasing it by much at all.

Thanks guys.

Why on earth would you need more than one vial of yeast? Is there something silly about liquid yeast that makes it only tolerant to a certain gravity? I've only ever used dry yeast and plan to continue doing so and have always used one packet for gravities upwards of 1.13(mead).

pizzaman said:

Why on earth would you need more than one vial of yeast? Is there something silly about liquid yeast that makes it only tolerant to a certain gravity? I've only ever used dry yeast and plan to continue doing so and have always used one packet for gravities upwards of 1.13(mead).

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I don't know....just going with what Mr. Malty's site said. I did not have time to make a starter, so I went with 2.

Why on earth would you need more than one vial of yeast?

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I think higher yeast cell counts will prevent the yeast from producing unwanted esters.

Ya know, I might pitch ONE, and create a starter for 24hrs with the other one. Just thinking out loud.

the big reason, from what I've read, is that a liquid yeast has less active yeast cells, dry much more... so liquid does need either a starter or two vials pitched... You will be fine w/ 2 though, a third a day later would be a bit too late most likely as has been said. The problem w/ underpitching is that it can mildly to heavily stress a yeast producing the above mentioned unwanted esters.

You usually need more than one vial if you don't make a starter. It's all about yeast viability and cell count. Read all about pitching rates at Mr Malty. Jamil explains it quite well.

Here's some antecdotal information:

I have a Bitter recipe that I brew frequently. The OG is in the upper 1.030s. I normally pitch a starter of WLP023. On a recent batch, I didn't have time to make a starter, so I pitched the tube. The lag time was a little longer than normal, but fermentation proceded and finished normally. However, it was fermented colder (low 60s°F) than I normally do (upper 60s°F) due to weather conditions and no application of heat.

FG was as expected and the ester profile was slightly less in character than the batches I've fermented at higher temps. I conclude from this that the fermentation temperature had a bigger impact on the ester production than did the pitch rate and that if I had fermented at my normal temperatures, I would have had a beer that tasted the same regardless of pitch rate.

I'm not saying pitch rate isn't important. I'm just saying that if it comes down to a reasonable difference in pitch rates, it may not be as important in the flavor profile of the beer as other fermentation parameters.

I got it, so multiple vials of liquid yeast is necessary when you don't do a starter. Man I love dry yeast.

pizzaman said:

I got it, so multiple vials of liquid yeast is necessary when you don't do a starter. Man I love dry yeast.

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The lack of a starter is nice, the limit in how many strains you can get dry is kind of frustrating, but then the majors are availibe in liquid or dry, it just depends on how precise you want to be!

menschmaschine said:

I conclude from this that the fermentation temperature had a bigger impact on the ester production than did the pitch rate and that if I had fermented at my normal temperatures, I would have had a beer that tasted the same regardless of pitch rate.

I'm not saying pitch rate isn't important. I'm just saying that if it comes down to a reasonable difference in pitch rates, it may not be as important in the flavor profile of the beer as other fermentation parameters.

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But if the OG was 1.03X, then wouldn't the tube be about the right pitching rate anyway? Whereas if it were something like 1.06X, you'd be more dramatically underpitching.

(This says the guy who finally made his first starter and is as yet agnostic about the flavor impacts.)

pizzaman said:

I got it, so multiple vials of liquid yeast is necessary when you don't do a starter. Man I love dry yeast.

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If you have a high OG, more than one pack of dry yeast may be ideal as well.

dogbar said:

But if the OG was 1.03X, then wouldn't the tube be about the right pitching rate anyway? Whereas if it were something like 1.06X, you'd be more dramatically underpitching.

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According to Mr. Malty's calculator and depending on yeast production date and viability, my 1.03X beer would require between 1.5 and 2 vials of yeast without a starter. He pitched 2 tubes (instead of the recommended 2.8), so it seems comparible to what I pitched in my lower gravity beer.

My point was that of all the fermentation parameters that relate to flavor-active compound production (esters), yeast pitch rate seems to have less of an effect than temperature, for example, as long as the pitch rate is reasonable.

So what is the benifit of using the vials of liquid yeast. I do use them, and typically make a starter ... but even at that point you talking 5-6 dollars a vial vs 2 bucks and no starter? Is it just greater variety ... i guess i jmuped on the liquid yeast bandwagon without learning enough about dry yeast ...

LLrain710 said:

So what is the benifit of using the vials of liquid yeast. I do use them, and typically make a starter ... but even at that point you talking 5-6 dollars a vial vs 2 bucks and no starter? Is it just greater variety ... i guess i jmuped on the liquid yeast bandwagon without learning enough about dry yeast ...

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That's pretty much it. I use S04 and S05 for what I'm brewing right now and it's great. This summer when I make my saison, that just won't cut it. They're so many styles that really need a yeast specific to that style, and they just don't have them available in dry form.

Is it just greater variety ...

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Yup pretty much. I use S04/05 and Notty almost exclusively unless I'm doing a style that requires something specific.

From one Wyeast smackpack, I make a starter and pitch half into my wort.

I use the other half to fill 10 small tubes (with some glycerin). These I label and freeze.

When I use one of those 10, I make a starter (with bottled wort).

When I get to the last of those 10, I make a starter and make 10 more.

You can really stretch a single liquid yeast.

Holy sh$t, 3 vials of liquid yeast at 7 bucks each...that's more than I would spend on a heavy batch. Bulk grain, bulk hops, dry or recycled yeast work wonders from a cost perspective!

so liquid yeast is more than dry and you need twice as much. that seems a lil crazy i think i will stick to my dry yeast unless like others have said, i need a specific strain

like2brew said:

so liquid yeast is more than dry and you need twice as much. that seems a lil crazy i think i will stick to my dry yeast unless like others have said, i need a specific strain

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+1...well said and worth repeating!

That's also why people who use liquid yeasts get into yeast washing, repitching and things like that. If you can get a vial or smack pack, make a starter, pitch it, and then use that same yeast for another 3 or 4 batches (or more) it gets even more economical than dry yeast. And there are folks that think that the yeast is best the second or third time you use it.