Power to Panel

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MI_Dogman

MI_Dogman

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E-Brewers,

Would it be ok to use a 30' 50AMP Generator Power cord for my system. I need to be able to reach my dryer outlet from the garage to the utility room (which is next to the garage). I'm building a 50 amp panel for a two vessel system.

Thanks!

-Dogman
 
Shoot! You are right. I just looked in the panel. It's only 30. I will probably have to add another breaker in my box.

Can I build a 30amp panel and still have enough juice for this diagram? I need to be able to run the 2000watt RIMS while my 4500-5500watt HLT/BK maintains my mash out temp.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1436125375.601161.jpg
 
In doing the math, the short answer is no. With a 2000w element running at 120v and a 4500w element running at 240, you'd be pulling a little over 35 amps. And that's with no pump running either.

I'm planning/building a very similar system, and I'm getting around that by not running my HLT/BK while the RIMS is running. I've got a 240v 5500w element I'll run at 120, putting out about 1375w into the RIMS tube, which will allow the 30amp service to run a pump or two at the same time. I'm thinking I'll have to turn the RIMS element off at some point in the mash to allow the HLT element to run and get the strike temp correct. But I'm still working it out.

Good luck!
 
Would that allow you to have a full 50amps? I'm no expert in AC/residential wiring, so would that allow you to pull a line from in front of the breaker and put a 50amp spa panel in? If so, I may end up doing that myself!
 
I have to talk to my dad about it. He is an electrician, I grew up helping him wire houses. I'm know expert on the stuff though, but I'm pretty sure you can add a 50amp service line or outlet. Come to think of it, I have space in my panel. I might just add an outlet to my garage for a 50 amp service. I will get back with what my dad says.
 
afro_lou said:
In doing the math, the short answer is no. With a 2000w element running at 120v and a 4500w element running at 240, you'd be pulling a little over 35 amps. And that's with no pump running either.

I'm planning/building a very similar system, and I'm getting around that by not running my HLT/BK while the RIMS is running. I've got a 240v 5500w element I'll run at 120, putting out about 1375w into the RIMS tube, which will allow the 30amp service to run a pump or two at the same time. I'm thinking I'll have to turn the RIMS element off at some point in the mash to allow the HLT element to run and get the strike temp correct. But I'm still working it out.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Incorrect. The 2000W RIMS element is powered by 240V not 120, so if he limits the HLT to a 4500W element, he would be pulling max 6500W with both heaters running. 6500/240 = 27A. The pump should pull less than 1.5A, so it all can come in just under 30A. A 5500W HLT element would put him over the limit. So, it's up to the OP whether or not he wants to run that close to the breaker rating or not. There are mixed opinions around here on whether that is kosher or not, since for continuous duty (longer than 3 hrs) you are supposed to keep the load under 80% of the breaker rating.

Brew on :mug:
 
Sorry, I didn't see where the OP specified the exact element he had, and I assumed he used this one. I should have clarified that in my first post. Now, if he does have a 240v 2000w element, you are very correct. He would come in just under 30amps, which should be ok, unless he's got a few extra lights on his control panel, and that's not taking into account however much power the PIDs use [emoji6]
 
afro_lou said:
Sorry, I didn't see where the OP specified the exact element he had, and I assumed he used this one. I should have clarified that in my first post. Now, if he does have a 240v 2000w element, you are very correct. He would come in just under 30amps, which should be ok, unless he's got a few extra lights on his control panel, and that's not taking into account however much power the PIDs use [emoji6]
Click to expand...

Power consumption for an SYL-2352 is listed as less than 5W, so their draw is down in the noise. The LED indicator lights are probably less than 1W apiece (LED lights only use about 15% of the energy required by an equivalent output incandescent.) So, all of the controllers and lights would draw less than 0.5A.

Brew on :mug:
 
Yep. That's all very true.
I still think a 50amp service would be better. Running at the ragged edge, for however long, is just asking for trouble. Why risk popping a breaker in the middle of a mash or boil?
 
That's Right! I was told I could use a 30 amp panel, but would be pushing the limits with it. So, after talking with my dad. I am going to install a 50amp generator outlet in garage for brewing purposes. I should be up and running in a couple of months. I will post a build of course once I have every piece of the puzzle.
 
It's probably SOOW 6/4 portable cord, rated for 55 amps. That would give you 20A overhead when loaded at 30A with everything you listed along with your drop over the 30' expanse.
 
Awesome, @MI_Dogman! I'll be following your build closely! I'm planning a very similar build, but 3 vessel. So far I've got almost all the hardware, I just haven't decided on a panel layout. If dropping in a 50amp spa panel is as easy as it sounds, I'll have to go that way too! It would be great to be able to run multiple elements at once.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
 
Firewalker11 said:
It's probably SOOW 6/4 portable cord, rated for 55 amps. That would give you 20A overhead when loaded at 30A with everything you listed along with your drop over the 30' expanse.
Click to expand...


That sounds great! It might be a lot of juice for now, but if I want to got to a HERMs system some day I have the setup for it.
 
doug293cz said:
Power consumption for an SYL-2352 is listed as less than 5W, so their draw is down in the noise. The LED indicator lights are probably less than 1W apiece (LED lights only use about 15% of the energy required by an equivalent output incandescent.) So, all of the controllers and lights would draw less than 0.5A.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

just an FYI,
all three of my pids, timer and led indicators all run off of the same 1 amp protected fused main circuit for them....the pids and timer actually run off 24v dc powersupplies in each and draw very little power.

I run an 1800w (240v) rims as well as 2 4500w kettle elements (BK and HLT) I have no issues running my rims along with 1 of my kettle elements and a couple pumps (small 24v DC pumps) at the same time.... my amp meter shows 27.X amps for the short time these may all be on 100%... over 50 brew sessions on it and have yet to pop a breaker... if cost or power availability isnt an issue though... My house only has a 100amp service and my hot tub alone required a 60amp breaker... Some people have older homes with only a 60 amp main service...
 
MI_Dogman said:
Double pole, 4 pin
Click to expand...
Then they could be used for everything, except the HLT element switch (Switch #1.) The HLT element will draw 4500/240 = 18,75A @ 240V and those switches are only rated for 16A @ 240V.

Brew on :mug:
 
Ok, that's all I needed to know. I will probably just order some switches from Auber Interments. What do you suggest I get from there as far as selector switches? 2 NO or 1 NO and 1 NC switches. I'm still learning how to read these diagrams. I'm better with regular house hold wiring.
 
BrunDog said:
You should check NEC but I would start with 6 for 50A, 10 for 25A, 12 or 14 for other stuff. Signal wires can be 22.

-BD
Click to expand...

BrunDog,

In my control box. Should I just use the Ground nut inside the box for all the grounds, or is it ok to have a Ground Bus in my Terminal Block Strip.

Oh and I love your 50a 2 Vessel Rig. I'm building the same except not with BCS.

Thanks,

Dogman
 
dogman, what type of conductors/cable are you running between your main panel, spa panel and brew receptacle? nm (romex)? or individual conductors in conduit?
 
BrunDog said:
I would use a ground bus, then tie the ground but to it. Make sure to ground both the enclosure and the door.
Click to expand...


Ok BrunDog,

If I can bother you with one more question. I saw the gauge in wire you said for everything. My question is this:

Do I just need #6 coming in to the bus, and then come of the bus with 10 and 14-16 for everything? Like can I run 10 to the circuit breakers and contactors.

Thanks for all your help so far, I'm ready to wire. Just need that final input.

Dogman
 
Anybody with Auber LED Push Button experience. I'm having hard time figuring out how to wire these along with J-Ps wiring diagram above.

I have these positions;

24 , 14

23 , 13

And there are two others I'm guessing are the X1 & X2 for the LED. Right now I am currently on the PID Power.
 
MI_Dogman said:
Anybody with Auber LED Push Button experience. I'm having hard time figuring out how to wire these along with J-Ps wiring diagram above.

I have these positions;

24 , 14

23 , 13

And there are two others I'm guessing are the X1 & X2 for the LED. Right now I am currently on the PID Power.
Click to expand...

23 and 24 are one contact pair, and 13 and 14 are the other contact pair. You only need to use one pair on each switch in the design you are using. X1 and X2 are the LED. Connect one of the X's to neutral and the other to the load side of the active contact pair.

Brew on :mug:
 
Cool! Thanks! Could you answer my question I asked BrunDog by chance? It was about the #6 gauge wire coming into the bus. I was wondering if after the bus I can use #10 wire for the circuit breaker, contractors, and SSR's.
 
You should run 6 gauge wire to the circuit breakers. After the 25 amp circuit breaker you can run 10 gauge and after the 15 amp breaker you can run 14 gauge wire.
 
Well........ I seriously underestimated the size of wiring and space in my panel.... It's not going to work or be safe with me trying to cram wires in my panel. I am going to order a larger panel, that sucks.
 
MI_Dogman said:
Ok BrunDog,

If I can bother you with one more question. I saw the gauge in wire you said for everything. My question is this:

Do I just need #6 coming in to the bus, and then come of the bus with 10 and 14-16 for everything? Like can I run 10 to the circuit breakers and contactors.

Thanks for all your help so far, I'm ready to wire. Just need that final input.

Dogman
Click to expand...

I would use the wire gauge that matches the max current that specific wire or circuit will carry. So yes, 6 (if 50A) into the distribution busses, then each line out will be according to what it feeds: 14 for 15A, 12 for 20A, 10 for 30A, and I would recommend 22 for anything signal or low current (<5A). Smaller wire is cheaper, easier to bend, easier to change, easier to relocate, and does not take up much space in an enclosure.
 
You are telling me. I pretty much gave up on the 6 and I was going to order a bigger panel for more room to work. But I gave it one more shot and took my time, and I'm at about 80% complete now. I just have to wire up the PIDs to there respective buttons and contactors, and then SSRs. Then it will be test time once I can get my dad to visit and help me test everything. He is a Lineman so he will be installing my outlet in the garage off my panel. I'm getting closer!!!
 
There is one last thing I'm hung up on. I have this PID below for my panel. Should I wire the alarm based on J-Ps design? Or do I run position 5 to Alarm IN and Alarm OUT to position 6.
 
It looks like 5/6 is a switched circuit. Therefore one end of the alarm gets power (or neutral) and the other is connected to 5 or 6. Then the other of 6 or 5 respectively gets the other side of the power circuit (or neutral).
 
BrunDog said:
It looks like 5/6 is a switched circuit. Therefore one end of the alarm gets power (or neutral) and the other is connected to 5 or 6. Then the other of 6 or 5 respectively gets the other side of the power circuit (or neutral).
Click to expand...


I appreciate all your help! But as you probably saw on my build thread that I sucked it up and bought the Auberins PIDS that go with the wiring diagram. Should have went with them in the first place, and I am going to swap them out once they come in the mail. I might have to add a small reset button on my panel though below my alarm.

-Dogman
 

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