Can you leave in Primary too long?

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pcancila

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I have an imperial stout that has been in the primary for 13 days today, 7/18/2010 and needs to go into a secondary. only problem is my secondary is only a 5g and I had an 6g yield, so in order not to wast i just ordered a 6g glass carboy should ship tomorrow.

Am I ok to wait a few extra days for the new carboy to come in?
 
I wouldn't leave a beer in primary more than 4 weeks, unless I had to. Up to then, you're fine. I usually leave all my beers in primary 3 weeks or so.

You'd probably be ok for a couple of months in primary, but I haven't ever gone longer than 4 weeks.
 
pcancila said:
I have an imperial stout that has been in the primary for 13 days today, 7/18/2010 and needs to go into a secondary. only problem is my secondary is only a 5g and I had an 6g yield, so in order not to wast i just ordered a 6g glass carboy should ship tomorrow.

Am I ok to wait a few extra days for the new carboy to come in?
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Why exactly does it need to go into a secondary? Are you oaking it? If not, you'll be fine leaving it in the primary for many weeks. It takes a while before you notice any funky tastes from the yeast, and anything imperial will almost never show any signs of off-flavors by holding on a yeast cake for a while.

My record is 6 weeks in the primary for an ale - it was a strong ale at around 7.5% ABV and 60-ish IBU's - and it won first place in a local home brewing competition. Take from that what you will.
 
My record is 54 days, which was by accident. I had brewed and intended to bottle before my son was born, but he came early and was then in the NICU for a few weeks, so needless to say I didn't bottle it when I had intended.

BUT it came out great even with dry hopping for the majority of that time. It was a hoppy American amber ale and it is a favorite of myself and several of my friends and family. I'm not saying that everyone will get the same results with that long of a primary ferm, but you really just never know what you will get, there are so many variables. Good luck and I'm sure your beer wont suffer too much for being in the primary a few extra days.
 
This is great advice! I feel confident that another week won't hurt! Thanks!

This raises another questions. This past batch of beer was my 7th brew, really all my past beers have turned out pretty good. For the most part I followed the directions that came with the kits. I believe all of them said to leave in primary for 10 - 14 days then go to secondary. that's why i asked if it was bad to go 21 days. Do the kit directions use the minimum time needed so they can have a quicker completion date for the beer?

Or how about in general, what are some of the directions that come with extract kits that can be adjusted..that is for the better!
 
Sometimes if you leave it in too long (month or more) you can get a waxy aftertaste, like a month or more.
 
I almost always try to leave my bigger beers in primary at least 3 weeks, more often 4. For a big imperial stout like that, 13 days or even 20 far more likely to be too short than too long.
 
pcancila said:
This raises another questions. This past batch of beer was my 7th brew, really all my past beers have turned out pretty good. For the most part I followed the directions that came with the kits. I believe all of them said to leave in primary for 10 - 14 days then go to secondary. that's why i asked if it was bad to go 21 days. Do the kit directions use the minimum time needed so they can have a quicker completion date for the beer?
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Yes. It sounds better to the purchaser if they're told "You can have been ready to drink in 20-30 days!".

Kal
 
IrregularPulse said:
I'm forcing down a keg of Red that was in Primary 6 weeks cause I got lazy. Won't do it again.
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What yeast? What fermentation temp? Recipe? The culprit most likely isn't the amount of time it sat in the primary unless something else was wrong.

Kal
 
I have an RIS that has been sitting in primary now for about 8 weeks. I split at about 3 weeks, putting half in secondary and the other half left in the primary. The half that is in secondary is good, and what I expected the batch to taste like. The half left in primary is full of off flavors, is a little bit on the dry side, and will get chucked in the sink. I may put it on oak to see if it helps, but I am not impressed with it at all.

I only did this little experiment as I always secondary, but heard overwhelmingly on here about how unnecessary it is.

I'm glad some people get great results from leaving their beer on spent yeast and trub for extended periods of time. But I won't risk ruining good beer with the chance that it could potentially pick up off flavors from dead yeast and old hops. Maybe I did something wrong, but it is not hard to leave beer in a bucket. So I doubt it had anything to do with just letting it sit.

So for me, the culprit was, most definitely, the amount of time that one sat in the primary. Now maybe if I could of gotten all the trub out before fermenting (which wasn't much btw, as I try and leave as much as possible in the kettle - always, before going through my CFC) it might have been different. Maybe I'll try again. But I doubt it. Taking the lazy approach isn't worth it to me. I would rather know I have a good beer waiting, instead of saving myself 30 minutes by letting is sit that long on a long dead cake of yeast.
 
suprchunk said:
I have an RIS that has been sitting in primary now for about 8 weeks. I split at about 3 weeks, putting half in secondary and the other half left in the primary. The half that is in secondary is good, and what I expected the batch to taste like. The half left in primary is full of off flavors, is a little bit on the dry side, and will get chucked in the sink. I may put it on oak to see if it helps, but I am not impressed with it at all.

I only did this little experiment as I always secondary, but heard overwhelmingly on here about how unnecessary it is.

I'm glad some people get great results from leaving their beer on spent yeast and trub for extended periods of time. But I won't risk ruining good beer with the chance that it could potentially pick up off flavors from dead yeast and old hops. Maybe I did something wrong, but it is not hard to leave beer in a bucket. So I doubt it had anything to do with just letting it sit.

So for me, the culprit was, most definitely, the amount of time that one sat in the primary. Now maybe if I could of gotten all the trub out before fermenting (which wasn't much btw, as I try and leave as much as possible in the kettle - always, before going through my CFC) it might have been different. Maybe I'll try again. But I doubt it. Taking the lazy approach isn't worth it to me. I would rather know I have a good beer waiting, instead of saving myself 30 minutes by letting is sit that long on a long dead cake of yeast.
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So you emptied half of the batch into a secondary.... and the other half stayed in place with no co2 protection from fermentation? and then you're going to blame the time spent on the yeast. I may be incorrect but it sounds like you pulled in a bunch of air(oxygen) on your beer. Your culprit good sir was you :cross:... hahaha but then again I almost always secondary... to me it provides a cleaner finish.
 
surreal_trip said:
So you emptied half of the batch into a secondary.... and the other half stayed in place with no co2 protection from fermentation? and then you're going to blame the time spent on the yeast. I may be incorrect but it sounds like you pulled in a bunch of air(oxygen) on your beer. Your culprit good sir was you :cross:... hahaha but then again I almost always secondary... to me it provides a cleaner finish.
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No, the culprit was not me. No oxygen was introduced into the initial batch. I guess I should repeat just for you since you seem to assume and imply - NO OXYGEN WAS INTRODUCED INTO THE INITIAL BATCH - the one in the primary (that's the vessel you use to initially ferment your beer). Minimal oxygen introduced to the secondaried batch, as much as would have been introduced as if I secondaried the whole batch.

Do you really think I would blame the extended primary if I had introduced oxygen post-fermentation? And I never solely blamed the yeast. I've been brewing for a while, and I've gotten my methods down good enough for me in those twenty years.
 
suprchunk said:
. . . but it is not hard to leave beer in a bucket . . . NO OXYGEN WAS INTRODUCED INTO THE INITIAL BATCH
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OK, you have my attention. How did you transfer half the beer out of the bucket without O2 (and various airborne stuff) going in? Kept it sealed? Pushed with CO2? Purged the headspace after transfer?


Edit:
This does sound like a good experiment, but without details . . . .
 
Push with CO2. I've got these neat little barrels they sell over here that I have been using for fermenting. Screw lids on top, allowing you to attach blow-off hose or a airlock. But even if I had used a spigot in the bottom of one of my other buckets, not much O2 would be getting in, negligible anyway. Then it would have purged out with the off-gassing from stirring the yeast/beer/trub up, anyway. When I get back to my other equipment, stateside, I will be using my corny kegs for everything. And I'll secondary the same by pushing with CO2. Thus, not introducing any oxygen. Much like I did this time, despite the implication otherwise from the peanut gallery above.

I might give this another go, though. I sometimes can go on trips for a couple weeks at a time, and sometimes don't have the time to rack over to secondary on short-notice trips. I don't want my wife messing it up, so keeping it in primary is a good option for those times.

I'm not saying that people can't get good beer from extended primary. I'm just saying I haven't seen good results. And I am from the school of thinking that keeping it on spent junk for too long MIGHT do more harm than good. I'm also from the school of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Which may prevent me from potentially ruining another good batch of beer by attempting it again. But when you get two totally different beers - one good, one tasting like **** - and the only difference is the much touted extended primary, that tells me to stick to way I have always done it.

Sorry for the lengthy response to a question that could've been answered with a sentence.
 
suprchunk said:
Sorry for the lengthy response to a question that could've been answered with a sentence.
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Actually, thanks for the detailed response. And I for one would be interested in hearing the results if you try it again. I’ve never bought the "yeast clean up after itself" claim. Seems to me that the yeast that have dropped aren’t doing anything, and the yeast still working is in suspension and gets transferred.
 
I will do it again next batch, hopefully next weekend.

I was really surprised that there was that much off-flavors to be honest. It is a big beer, a RIS after all. I could just imagine how bad it would be if it was a lighter beer like pale ale. And probably even worse in a wheat-based beer. I will attempt again with another RIS just to eliminate one variable. Might not be the same recipe, but it will be close.

I'll report back in a couple months. Hopefully I don't forget. :)
 
Might want to consider the effects of temperature controlled ferment as well. I recently (5 batches ago) began using a refrigerator with a temp controller for my ale fermentation. I had been of the old school philosophy that you had to use a secondary.

My practice at room temp had been a week in primary, a week in secondary (unless I was oaking or dry hopping) then into the bottle or keg.

I found out pretty quickly that everything happens slower at 65-68F than it does at room temp. My first 2 batches after changing my fermentation temps were plagued by off flavors, notably acetaldehyde because I didn't give the yeast enough time to clean up after itself.

I have tasted 2 of the 3 batches made since my acetaldehyde problem cropped up. Both of those batches were given a month in the primary with no secondary. One went to the bottle. The other went to the keg. Both batches saw great benefit from the extra time on the yeast cake.
 
I just left a pale ale in the primary for 8 months at basement temps (68 to 75 F). Came out just fine... in fact at my party the whole keg was gone and people were raving about it.
 
I think extended primaries is a bit of a gamble. Could be a safe bet, or could be a long shot.

If one does a very good job of sanitation, has a good healthy ferment and has good control of the temperature, then it can be a sure bet.

If any of the above were off a little, particularly sanitation, then your chances of off flavors goes up the longer it is on the yeast. This is particularly true for lighter and low hopped styles. One can occasionally luck out though. When actively fermenting, the yeast will out compete any contaminants. As soon as all of the sugars are used up and the yeast drop, the only major food option left in the beer is dead yeast. There are plenty of microbes that will happily munch away on dead (and live) yeast.

Of course the best way to solve this potential problem is to do the best you can to avoid any contamination. It is virtually impossible for the homebrewer to have everything the wort touches be sterile. Well sanitized yes, sterile no. The next best way to keep any contaminants from multiplying excessively is to remove their major food source. This would be the yeast at the bottom of the fermentor. Racking to another vessel will accomplish this.

And a third way would be to take advantage of the antibacterial nature of hops and alcohol and only brew hoppy beers over 6% :drunk:
 

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