Huge Stir Plate -Aerate 6 Gallon Batch??

I just invested in a monster stir plate that can move 200 liters at 2400 RPM. I can get a huge vortex with 6 gallons of water at only 600 RPM. My question is... Can I use this to aerate my batch when pitching yeast? Also, How long would you aerate the wort/yeast for? 30 minutes?

Wow that's awesome. I'd love one of those for my immersion chiller

Make a two batches, one on the stir plate, one without.
Taste after aging and let us know...

I wondered what it would take to make a stir plate for 5 gallons.

The problem is that unless you blow O2 into the head space the max O2 level you can get is 8ppm due to the fact air is only 20% O2, you are meant to shoot for 10-15ppm to kick of your yeasties. Stirring works for a starter as it is continous and the O2 concentration is being contsantly topped up.

Clem

I'd be interested to see how well it moves wort compared to the water. I know my homemade computer fan stir plate acts differently with 1.040 wort vs tap water.

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Nice! I was thinking of making a ghetto version by using a variable-speed 12" box fan and some neodium magnets. Without getting too, uhh, personal.... how long is your stir bar?

nanop said:

Nice! I was thinking of making a ghetto version by using a variable-speed 12" box fan and some neodium magnets. Without getting too, uhh, personal.... how long is your stir bar?

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That made me laugh!! This will move up to a 6" stir bar, but I have a 3" stir bar in the carboy. I will send pics of the IPA I brew this weekend.

I understand that we need pure O2 for higher gravity beers. However, Jamil and Palmer say pure O2 is not needed and can hurt a low-medium gravity beer. Palmer uses a pump w filter for 30 minutes. I'm going to try this and see how it goes.

It will move wort!! The pic is showing movement at 600 RPM and it tops out at 2400.

I will try the big stir plate for wort aeration on Sunday. But want advice on how long to keep it going. I want to go long but not long enough to hurt my brew. Advice?

First off holy hell that's impressive. I absolutely love lab equipment!

Second you'll only get so far. My best advice is go let it vortex for a few minutes. 30min with a pump and filter sounds like 20 min too long. Might as well just use 30sec of those small 02 cans with a .2micron filter.

vinyl_key said:

Wow that's awesome. I'd love one of those for my immersion chiller

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This is what I would be wanting to investigate as well. Constant agitation should be very efficient for chilling wort. Also should do a good job of getting a nice trub/hops cone prior to draing.

i know the action is different... but a research article showed that 1 min of shaking got the level of o2 up to the desired level. So 30min seems high.

Just listened to the Brew Strong(Jamil&Palmer) show on Aeration a couple days ago and Palmer's reasoning was during whatever amount of time you provide air just allows for the yeast to be able to absorb more O2 during that time.

How much more O2 the yeast will absorb/use in 10mins to 30mins, don't know.

i read the white/zainascheff yeast book a while back,i've lent it to a friend so this is from memory only so some of the figures mentioned may not be accurate.

8ppm is the highest obtainable o2 solution you can obtain with air,this is fine for a beer of about 1.040 s.g. but the higher the gravity the beer the more o2 is required

yeast consume all the available o2 within about 30 minutes of pitching so if you leave it on the stirplate after pitching the yeast will be consuming the o2 as your adding it,so i imagine you can get to any desired concentration of o2

of course excessive o2 is undesirable so i suppose some experimentation with an o2 meter would be needed to establish a rule of thumb to see how much o2 is adsorbed per minute,i suppose this may be different depending on the gravity of the beer so a few different trials may be needed.

i'd be keen to see the results if you do try this.

cheers
martin

that stirbar setup would be awesome for making uberstarters for a high gravity lager pitch. or if you have a 10 or 20g setup. I'm jealous.

optimatored said:

i know the action is different... but a research article showed that 1 min of shaking got the level of o2 up to the desired level. So 30min seems high.

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You have a link to that "research article"?

fyi, White's Yeast claims 5 minutes of shaking a vessel with 5 gallons of brew only got the O2 content up to a measly 2.71 ppm...

Cheers!

I have a feeling that while you can get all the O2 you need in a single shot with pure O2, you could also get it using a second aeration. I think we'd just need somebody to do the experimentation to find out exactly when is the correct time to do subsequent aerations. I know i've heard/read about people doing it between 8 and 12 hours after pitching. i've also heard of aerating every 4 hours for 10 minutes till kreusen develops.

thegerm said:

I have a feeling that while you can get all the O2 you need in a single shot with pure O2, you could also get it using a second aeration. I think we'd just need somebody to do the experimentation to find out exactly when is the correct time to do subsequent aerations. I know i've heard/read about people doing it between 8 and 12 hours after pitching. i've also heard of aerating every 4 hours for 10 minutes till kreusen develops.

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White either did this or cited someone else's work, but in Yeast he recommended another round of O2 12 hours after pitching for high OG brews...

Cheers!

I would use it for the full fermentation, talk about keepin the yeast in suspension!

Vance71975 said:

I would use it for the full fermentation, talk about keepin the yeast in suspension!

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you'd be running major risk of oxidation with all that surface area turnover, unless your airlock seal was immaculate.

I love the idea for using it during cooling. Never thought of that. I just read reviews of some of the stir plates that people would buy for 100 bucks that would fall apart after 10 batches... and thought I would get something with a little more umpf. Got this on ebay!! There are still some available if anyone else wants to get another toy(Im from WI, so I am not selling them).

I like the idea of aerating at the pitch and 12 hours later and think I may try it. I have the yeast book but haven't pounded through it yet!!

Please pass on any other advice you have, as always it is greaty appreciated...

Any update on this?
I also have a stirplate capable of doing an entire batch and was wondering what the outcome was.

vinyl_key said:

Wow that's awesome. I'd love one of those for my immersion chiller

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What would you do with this and an IC???

kpr121 said:

This is what I would be wanting to investigate as well. Constant agitation should be very efficient for chilling wort. Also should do a good job of getting a nice trub/hops cone prior to draing.

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I'm still not getting this. You talking about putting your stainless bj on this thing with your IC and a stirbar?

I'm curious, but maybe just not understanding the concept...

Edited for clarity.

I think he should try a whole fermentation .
My opinion is the yeast are producing gas therefore it is always positive pressure not negative.
With an airlock on the gas is only traveling in one direction and therefore no real risk of oxidation. I think you would get a better fermention because it releases the yeast waste gas better. and keeps the yeast in suspension. PLEASE try it

If i had this setup, I would stir until i saw + signs of fermentation, then cut it off. Also, id only leave tin foil on the top until fermentation started, then add the air lock.
The difference between this and pumping air into the fermenter is that just stirring the beer doesnt draw any air into the carboy. al you are really doing is bringing the yeast underr the surface of the beer into contact with the air where it can absorb the O2. there will only be slight intake of air into the carboy from this method vs. actually pumping air into the carboy. thats why the 30 minute restriction on the air pump, and why I would use the stir bar until signs of fermentation start.

cooldood said:

I think he should try a whole fermentation .
My opinion is the yeast are producing gas therefore it is always positive pressure not negative.
With an airlock on the gas is only traveling in one direction and therefore no real risk of oxidation. I think you would get a better fermention because it releases the yeast waste gas better. and keeps the yeast in suspension. PLEASE try it

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I'm kinda thinking the same way, it seems it might work, especially if you set for a slow churn maybe?

jbaysurfer said:

I'm still not getting this. You talking about putting your stainless bj on this thing with your IC and a stirbar?

I'm curious, but maybe just not understanding the concept...

Edited for clarity.

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Keeping the wort moving around the IC? A basterized CF?

05m50dan said:

If i had this setup, I would stir until i saw + signs of fermentation, then cut it off. Also, id only leave tin foil on the top until fermentation started, then add the air lock.
The difference between this and pumping air into the fermenter is that just stirring the beer doesnt draw any air into the carboy. al you are really doing is bringing the yeast underr the surface of the beer into contact with the air where it can absorb the O2. there will only be slight intake of air into the carboy from this method vs. actually pumping air into the carboy. thats why the 30 minute restriction on the air pump, and why I would use the stir bar until signs of fermentation start.

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What about using an inline HEPA filter and maybe a 1-way check valve to keep pulling air in?

bdogg171 said:

Keeping the wort moving around the IC? A basterized CF?

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I guess so, but a pump with wort return that spins it in the opposite direction of the IC is cheaper

jbaysurfer said:

I guess so, but a pump with wort return that spins it in the opposite direction of the IC is cheaper

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Not if you dont have a pump it isn't.

bdogg171 said:

Not if you dont have a pump it isn't.

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A pump costs the same whether I have one or not.

Yeah, if you have one of these but not a pump, I get it, but at risk of overexplaining, I was confused why someone would covet this device to use with their IC when they could covet a much cheaper device. It's all good. I lean toward the arcane.

Holy zombie thread, batman.

My post you quoted was from a long time ago, and I have since purchased pumps to transfer liquids on my single tier stand, I use one of the pumps to recirc the BK during chilling. I also have a dedicated stir plate, so I have no interest in this device anymore (other than that it’s still pretty cool!)

At the time I was thinking this would be nice to have since I had no intentions of buying pumps. Would have been a multi-tasker if used for starters, during chill, and then possibly during active fermentation as others had described.

With the brewing knowledge I have gained in the past 3+ years I certainly wouldn’t “covet” this thing. If I got it for free or dirt cheap I’d probably figure out a way to use it in the process though!

So what if it was from a long time ago?
It's still an interesting idea in my opinion so sue me for running across it I guess

bdogg171 said:

So what if it was from a long time ago?
It's still an interesting idea in my opinion so sue me for running across it I guess

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My lawyer will be contacting yours!

JK, and I didnt mean to come off rudely, was just surprised this popped back up.

I actually thought it was a cool idea then and still do but I wouldnt be spending any large amounts of money on something like this, as I think its excessive for yeast starters and there are better alternatives for chilling wort.

If I came across this in a yard sale or flea market I would definitely be taking a close look at it and seeing what I can use it for in brewing. But I do that with just about every doo-hicky I see anywhere!

Cheers! To open minds and closed fermenters!

Lol, I don't have a lawyer so I guess I'm screwed, will you take a homebrew to drop the case?

Don't be surprised that it popped back up, search is a heck of a tool when your on the can.

My though was since I have an industrial stir plate maybe pump air through stone into the carboy while spinning for say 10 min or so, cut off air while continuing the spin, after 10 min or so turn air back on for another 10 or so? Maybe pointless and silly.