Brewing School

I know this site is dedicated to homebrewing, but I need help deciding on a brew school. I applied to American Brewers Guild Craftbrewer's Apprenticeship and the UC Davis Extension Master Brewers Program. I was accepted to both and I was having trouble deciding. The ABG is cheaper but I have also heard great things about the UC Davis program, and the ABG program is distance education so it isnt traditional classroom learning. I am in my early 20s and so I have very few contacts in the brewing world that I can ask about this. If you would let me know any good or bad things you've heard about either program, or which you would choose yourself, I'd appreciate it.

Choose the one that drinks the most beer...

...but seriously you probably can't go wrong with either one. Not too many of us on this forum have a brewers degree. It depends on what you want to achieve with this degree: work for a major brewery or start your own someday.

Also, I found this website with links to many different brewery programs including the two you mentioned.

Brewing Schools


Turn your hobby into a career that you can love with passion!
American Brewers Guild [offsite link]
Craft Brewers Apprenticeship Program

American Society of Brewing Chemists [offsite link]
The ASBC provides courses and Seminars on a specialized basis, including such topics as Hop Technology and Barley Malt Quality,

Canadian Malting Barley Technical Centre [offsite link]
Provides technical assistance, education and training for Domestic and International customers.

Doemens - Germany [offsite link]
Partnered with Siebel Institute as part of the World Brewing Academy. World renowned.

Heriot-Watt Unversity International Centre for Brewing & Distilling [offsite link]
Located in Edinburgh, Scotland, this brewing school boasts a distinguished international reputation.

How to Become a Certified Cicerone
Seven months after taking, and not passing, the Certified Cicerone Exam, I was still licking my wounds. Did I have the right stuff to hold the distinction of Certified Cicerone?

Master Brewers Association of the Americas [offsite link]
Continuing Education programs for Master Brewers. Packaging Technology; Malting Science; Flavor Workshop, Sanitation & Pest Control; Excel for Brewers

Scandinavian School of Brewing [offsite link]
Located near the Carlsberg Brewery, the school is a private and independent institution located in Copenhagen. It is owned and operated by the Danish Brewers´ Association, the Norwegian Brewers´ Association, the Swedish Brewers´ Association and the Finnish Brewers’ Association.

See You at Brew School [offsite link]
Thinking of taking the plunge into a life of brewing? Article highlights brewing schools, with listings, addresses, contact information, tuition costs and program offerings.

Siebel Institute of Technology & World Brewing Academy [offsite link]
Chicago brewing paradise is partnered with Doemens in Germany as part of the World Brewing Academy. World renowned! 3-day and 12-week programs available.

University of California, Davis [offsite link]
Available education levels are: Master Brewers Program; Professional Brewers; General Certification & Packaging; Intensive Brewing Science

VLB Berlin - Research & Teaching Institute for Brewing in Berlin [offsite link]
Also known as Versuchs-und Leranstalt fur Brauerei in Berlin. Located in Berlin, courses are taught entirely in English. Comprehensive programs in Brewing Technology, Logistics, Engineering, Management, Water Treatment, more...

Wissenschaftszentrum Weihenstephan [offsite link]
Program in Brewing & Food Science Technology. Close to Munich. Students must be able to speak fluent German - Free tuition for Theses Program, as well as all courses!

I admit up front that I don't really a lot about either school. But, I look at this like any other lab-based college degree. I personally think you would get more out of the UC Davis program. It's a traditional college program with labs and hands on learning. Plus, it's likely that you would have more access to things like internships and job placement. I'm always a little leary about distance learning programs. Some things you can learn on your own out of a book, but anything that requires a lot of hands on doing (like brewing) seems like it would be better suited to a classroom setting.

Plus, I've been to grad-school, and you really learn to appreciate the comraderie of your classmates, and the convenience of having professors readily available to help you out with just about anything.

Just my opinion.

i was thinking of applying for these programs as well. i cant really decide myself.

I would really consider what you want to do with it, as stated above. It MIGHT help you get a job at a brewery, but you have to understand that job will be as an assistant brewer making no more than 12 dollars an hour. Two years ago, I was convinced that I would be going to school and then starting my own brewery. I know now that I don't need more schooling to get a job at a local brewery or to start my own.

You stated that you don't know many people who work in the local breweries, and that will have to change. Your best bet getting a job at a smaller brewery is having friends in those places. Making all of the people there understand that you know what you're doing is important.

That said, I think that classes can give you an edge at a brewery. Having the practical knowledge will help you no matter where you go. You will be in debt from all this unless you have the money to bankroll this type of program and that won't really get you higher pay, but I'm betting it is a cool experience. As for which school... I'd go with anything hands on. ABG and Davis are both great schools, but if you can afford the time to go somewhere, I would.

If I was able to attend a brewing school, I would go with the Siebel Institute of Technology in Chicago.

Teromous said:

If I was able to attend a brewing school, I would go with the Siebel Institute of Technology in Chicago.

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I just read up on that program and they have a 12 week Master Brewer program that involves working/learning over in Germany for a couple of those weeks. That would be awesome experience and make one well rounded.

No personal experience, but from research I say UC Davis or Siebel - and I'm from VT where I could live at home and commute to the ABG program they have in Middlebury.

Sorry, at the moment I can't really give deeper justifications as to my choices, but I did research these extensively at one point and those were my choices... but I decided to finish my Engineering degree before becoming a professional brewer

That Siebel course site just made me drool. That seems like the best bet aside from just working in a brewery.

Baja_Brewer said:

No personal experience, but from research I say UC Davis or Siebel - and I'm from VT where I could live at home and commute to the ABG program they have in Middlebury.

Sorry, at the moment I can't really give deeper justifications as to my choices, but I did research these extensively at one point and those were my choices... but I decided to finish my Engineering degree before becoming a professional brewer

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Engineering might be more useful to a brewery than another brewing degree... perhaps especially EE, with the way things are going.

Yeah, I have a secret desire to move back to IL and go to the Siebel Institute. But first I'd have to win the lottery and quit my job

yeah thats the thing, the brewing program I liked at Siebel was the most expensive of the three. I was thinking I might do the distance ed at ABG while hopefully getting some kind of internship then try to take a couple of the 2 week or 3 day courses offered at Siebel because that would be cheaper than going through the entire World Brewing Academy Master Brewers Program.

I couldn't even find a price when I was looking at the Siebel program. That looks awesome though.

In most careers, schooling is nice but it is no substitute for experience. I imagine that brewing is the same.

And, if you are looking to start your own brewery or brewpub, remember that most businesses that fail do so because of accounting. Taking some good bookkeeping classes will do more for your dreams than a course on yeast biology.

It hasn't been mentioned yet so I will add that a part of the ABG program is a spending a week in either VT or CA (depending on what time you take the courses) at a brewery/lab. You also get placed into an apprenticeship, and they have job placement assistance. You also have weekly webinars, online discussions, get DVD's of material, etc. You aren't just left to learn on your own and hope for the best. It's not classroom learning, but it's as close as you get w/ a distance program.

I'll also back up what others are saying in that eduction is all good and well, but experience is what will get you there. I bet you could ask 100 brewers if they had any brewing education and the majority would say either they didn't up front, and if they did have education it was after they were brewing.

I would bet money that you would meet more people and be more successful at building relationships and networking, in a "real" college.
There's something to immersive training - When you eat live and breathe your education VS just logging in every day.

Kilted Brewer said:

I'll also back up what others are saying in that eduction is all good and well, but experience is what will get you there. I bet you could ask 100 brewers if they had any brewing education and the majority would say either they didn't up front, and if they did have education it was after they were brewing.

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Without anything to really back this up, I suspect that whether the degree helps you or not would matter primarily if you were looking to get a gig with one of the major breweries (BMC) or if you were looking to get involved with a micro (or starting your own). I know one of Kai's buddies works for Bud up in NH, and has a degree from UC-Davis.

It's my dream to quit my job and take the 20-week course at Siebel. Then work for a brewery until I had the money and experience to start my own brewery/pub/inn in some picturesque location. But that course is like $22,000, not including housing, and there's no guarantee that I'd be able to get a job after graduating. Then there's the fact someone mentioned about making $12/hr, which would make paying back the loans tough.

Then there's the fact that I've been trying to make friends with local breweries and volunteer/work part time with them but it's harder than it sounds. It seems like they don't want help.

It's hard breaking into the industry.

I toured UC Davis when my wife was getting accepted in to a Graduate program. I wished she would have picked Davis over Irvine. I really liked the community. There was a lot of agriculture in the immediate area and having grown up in a farming town it felt more like home. I actually had a turkey come up to me begging for food at one point. I'd drop So Cal for Davis in a heartbeat. With luck, maybe she'll get a postdoc position up there.

I'm getting things in line to try and attend Siebel in November to take their 2 week "Concise Course in Brewing Technology" in November. It is their entry level course and is 7 hours a day 5 days a week for two weeks. I am also in my early 20's. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree a little over a year ago and have been able to get jack squat as for as jobs go. Thinking it's a perfect time to pursue a pipe dream.

BogusOwnz said:

I'm getting things in line to try and attend Siebel in November to take their 2 week "Concise Course in Brewing Technology" in November. It is their entry level course and is 7 hours a day 5 days a week for two weeks. I am also in my early 20's. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree a little over a year ago and have been able to get jack squat as for as jobs go. Thinking it's a perfect time to pursue a pipe dream.

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The Consise Course is pretty great. I went last year (thank you, AHA and Lallemand!) and I have to say I learned a lot. I think it was what made me decide that I might not need more school to get into brewing, though. Lots of people there with the idea of starting something, and it seemed that the most prominent traits needed were the drive to do it and a personality that fits the business. Oh, and understanding money or having someone that does. Big-time important.

Siebel is an awesome school though, and run by some great people and I'd go back if money wasn't an issue.

Seems being about and not just talking about it is the key getting started I agree. As far as the money understanding goes, the best thing I have close is my step mother has an MBA.

A point I haven't seen mentioned is this: before you spend money on formal education, make sure you don't hate brewing professionally. Working in a small brewery is nothing like homebrewing. Its lots of janitorial work, basically. Just mashed in? OK, now its time to scrub the floor and clean a tank. Take a five minute break to get the runoff going, and now its time to clean kegs for a couple hours. Take another five minutes to make sure your boil is going, and now you get to shovel a couple tons of piping hot grain out of the mash tun.

Its not easy to get your foot in the door in a professional brewing environment, and you may decide that formal education is the only way you're ever going to get experience in a brewery. But you should make certain that you've exhausted every avenue open to you first, before you lay down that $10k. Obviously most pros aren't in it for the money, and love what they do, but you may not. It would suck to be paying off that loan on an assistant brewer's salary and come to the realization that you hate going to work every day.

BogusOwnz said:

Seems being about and not just talking about it is the key getting started I agree. As far as the money understanding goes, the best thing I have close is my step mother has an MBA.

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MBA = degree in networking

When MBAs are honest, their Rolodex is worth more than their degrees.

Accounting is where it's at. If you can do good accounting (not "creative" accounting) you can turn a profit in a business collecting and selling dog poo. I firmly believe three people in this world will never starve:

1) Farmers
2) Salesmen
3) Accountants

(corrolary 1A: prostitutes... if the farmers already have enough food for their family)

I think 2 should be changed to successful salesman. A lot of salesman are starving.

BogusOwnz said:

I think 2 should be changed to successful salesman. A lot of salesman are starving.

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Correct qualification.

Oregon State University has an undergraduate degree in Fermentation Science (under the Food Science and Technology program). Here's the link: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foodsci/undergrad/fermopt.htm
They've got courses on making beer, etc. I just heard about this program a few months ago, and if I was interested in getting a Bachelor's degree, I'd definitely look into this program. I know nothing about it other than what's on the website, but they've got a small brewery at the school. They also have courses on wine production and cheese making under the program. Sounds like a good time to me.

At BYO.com in the blog section a guy writes about UC Davis from week 1 to after the course was completed. It was pretty interesting.

I'd just like to mention that experience home brewing probably is not enough. While this might not be the case for every brewery, I have seen at least a few that say that you shouldn't even bother applying unless you have formal education in the trade.

Just my opinion, but I would pursue an MS in fermentation science if I were in your position (A BS if you dont already have one). This would give you a good background to either going into research which may be relatively easy and profitable after networking with the school, work at a brewery (especially a larger one) would be easier with a formal degree, or continue schooling. Those two week programs are great and all, but that seems like something you might want to do after getting a degree... a BS or MS would give you a lot more options in my opinion, and if you're lucky you can probably land a research or teaching assistantship and not have to pay much. my $.02...

I do not believe that schooling is by any means the correct choice to make when wanting to break into the industry.

It is too expensive for getting a job in an industry that pays too little, and it isn't required except for certain jobs that you won't get anyway without a lot of experience.

I think the earliest schooling in brewing should be considered is after a year of experience. You might not like brewing professionally, you will have a better idea of your earning potential with and with out the schooling and thus better able to make an informed decision about whether or not it is financially feasible for you to pursue.

Brewing school should not be used as a "foot in the door" type move. I don't believe it is a great way to go about it. A much much much better way to get a brewing job is not by responding to a posting on ProBrewer, because tons of people out there obviously already know about it so your competition will be huge, and brewing school may not be enough to differentiate you from your competitors. The best way to get a brewing job is from word of mouth from other brewers. Make friends with as many brewers as you can. When many brewers are looking for someone, they'll tell some of their buddies in the industry about it. If you are good buddies with a brewer, and he knows you are looking, and you have fed him some damn good homebrew, he may just tell you about a job he heard about that may be opening up soon.

The way you get a job in a hobby industry like this is by getting the job before it is even posted publicly. There is simply too much competition out there for you to get a job from postings within a reasonable time frame.