Safale S-04 Cider

9 days ago I started a 1-gallon batch using pasteurized store juice and Safale S-04 with some fresh grated ginger and raisins. I was wondering why it was still bubbling so I took an SG reading: 1.022 (OG 1.050).

Based on that I'm guessing I should expect another 7-9 days of fermentation. I know I just need to be patient and wait, which is exactly what I'm doing, but I'm just curious if this is normal. I've read that it only takes a few days to ferment when making beer, but didn't track down anyone talking about fermentation time with cider. What have other peoples' experiences been?

I don't even check my gravity for the first month.

I almost always reach Fg in just a couple of days, but it's ok if yours is not there. Sometimes it goes slow because of a lack of nutrients, or a lack of oxygen, or a low temperature, etc.

Often, I will stir the first few days to get rid of the co2 and to allow oxygen in and I'm sure that speeds it up quite a lot as c02 is toxic to yeast.

If it's still dropping, and it's still bubbling, it's ok. One nice thing about using s04 in cider as that once it's done working, it will drop clear and the cider will clear right away usually so that's a good indication it's done.

I used S04 as one of 5 different yeasts in a divided up batch of pear must. The S04 was really sulfurous compared to the others. I was able to work out most of it, but still was my least favorite variant. I'm curious in others results with it.

S04 is my go to yeast for cider. Never had anything but excellent results from it.

Yooper said:

I almost always reach Fg in just a couple of days, but it's ok if yours is not there. Sometimes it goes slow because of a lack of nutrients, or a lack of oxygen, or a low temperature, etc.

Often, I will stir the first few days to get rid of the co2 and to allow oxygen in and I'm sure that speeds it up quite a lot as c02 is toxic to yeast.

If it's still dropping, and it's still bubbling, it's ok. One nice thing about using s04 in cider as that once it's done working, it will drop clear and the cider will clear right away usually so that's a good indication it's done.

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Really? It typically takes 2 weeks for me, and I always add nutrients. Winter ciders - lower temp and late season apples - can take 3 weeks. Maybe I'll start stirring mine.

I use Lavin EC-1118 - I prefer a cider made with wine yeasts, which I think are better suited to the higher gravity and fruit base. I also add some corn sugar (6 oz) at the start and use a teaspoon of pectic enzyme for each gallon.

I get a super dry product in a week, with a good portion of that time devoted to settling. It also carbonates nicely within two more weeks with a corn sugar addition at bottling.

Quaker said:

I used S04 as one of 5 different yeasts in a divided up batch of pear must. The S04 was really sulfurous compared to the others. I was able to work out most of it, but still was my least favorite variant. I'm curious in others results with it.

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I like it. It clears well and makes very tasty cider. It also carbonates quickly when bottle conditioning.

My only complaint about S-04 is that the lees are light and fluffy and easily disturbed. You have to be careful when racking or risk sucking up sediment with the siphon. I get better yield with Nottingham.

Maylar said:

My only complaint about S-04 is that the lees are light and fluffy and easily disturbed.

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I found that as well. I had somewhat similar lees with Cote des Blanc. The WLP Saison III, D47 and EC1118 were well all compacted.

So this cleared just a few days ago and is bottled now. In retrospect the slow start wasn't really an issue since I wanted to let it sit in primary for 3-4 weeks in any case.

Unfortunately it seems like it has fusels in it since a half-pint gave me a headache. Guess I should have done temperature control better; early on I let it get a little warm because it started off so slow, and I only kept it at 65 for two weeks instead of the whole four it took to ferment. I wondered if the temperature mattered after the majority of the fermentation finished... and now I know that it does. I used a bucket with ice packs to cool it down and a carboy sticker thermometer.

So, my advice to everyone: unless you have a super cool brewing fridge setup, just use a yeast with a temperature range that's suited for the season. I've since learned that some people like to make their ciders with saison yeasts (such as Belle Saison), for simplicity's sake that may have been a better experiment.

S-04 is good to 77° - how warm was yours?

Maylar said:

S-04 is good to 77° - how warm was yours?

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During the first two weeks it was generally in the 62-68° range, but at the end it got up to 72° thanks to a small heat wave. In week 3 and 4 I let it get as hot as the ambient temperature, between 75-84°.

Bummer. And you're right, chose a yeast for the season. I think EC-1118 is rated for summer temps. But this is why I don't make summer ciders any more, I've been spoiled by the flavor difference with slow cool fermentations.

I just finished another half-pint of this and it actually only gave me a sort of lingering discomfort instead of an actual headache... weak enough that the batch isn't a waste.

I thought fusels never went away ... could it be something as strange as what part of the carboy the bottle is siphoned from? The first bottle I drank was from the very bottom.

Yooper said:

I almost always reach Fg in just a couple of days, but it's ok if yours is not there. Sometimes it goes slow because of a lack of nutrients, or a lack of oxygen, or a low temperature, etc.

Often, I will stir the first few days to get rid of the co2 and to allow oxygen in and I'm sure that speeds it up quite a lot as c02 is toxic to yeast.

If it's still dropping, and it's still bubbling, it's ok. One nice thing about using s04 in cider as that once it's done working, it will drop clear and the cider will clear right away usually so that's a good indication it's done.

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When you say you stir, Yooper, should I be fermenting in a my beer pal/bucket with airlock on, and remove the lid everyday to stir? Every other day?

Some posts on here have said you don't even need a lid and airlock - that can't be true, or is it?

giorgio-alemani said:

When you say you stir, Yooper, should I be fermenting in a my beer pal/bucket with airlock on, and remove the lid everyday to stir? Every other day?

Some posts on here have said you don't even need a lid and airlock - that can't be true, or is it?

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Yes, it's true. I put a towel over the bucket so I can stir the first few days easily. That's if I don't have a ton of fruit flies around, then it's a lid and airlock. I do that always for wines, for cider it sometimes depends on how fast it's going- my ciders sometimes go really fast.

So I have been using S04 and Notty but I don’t use a fresh pack of yeast, I usually make a low hop light colored beer and rack the cider right on the cake and it’s usually done in 5-7 days.

Not sure if it’s because of what is in the cake that helps with fermentation or if because there is a large amount of yeast.

I have been doing it this way for a few years now and works well for me.

We use DV-10 yeast. It is a S. bayannus yeast and does wonders in apple juice. Adjust the acid up to around .650 with Malic, add superfood, a little DAP and off and running with 1 lb/M

Zymomancer said:

During the first two weeks it was generally in the 62-68° range, but at the end it got up to 72° thanks to a small heat wave. In week 3 and 4 I let it get as hot as the ambient temperature, between 75-84°.

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Yes, that's likely a little hot given how fast S-04 ferments cider. I bet it was running unrestrained at full-tilt fermentation speed! I like to pitch around 58F and ferment down to 48-50F with S-04 to keep it running slow. However, fusels cany mellow out a little over time so maybe tuck some bottles away in a dark corner and re-visit them in a year.

RPowell said:

S04 is my go to yeast for cider. Never had anything but excellent results from it.

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Do u ever re-use it?

I should add a note that I've had some VERY tart (I think acidic) ciders result from S-04 pitched in ciders with malt extract added. I really should take some pH readings on finished ciders to see if there is noticeable drop in pH with S-04.

I would not recommend re-using any cider yeast for risk of the tired yeast producing H2S because of depletion of nutrients. I guess this might be averted by adding sufficient nutrients in the first place, but that can lead to excessive attenuation of ciders (not an issue if back-sweetening).

Given the low cost of a pack of S-04, might as well just pitch a new pack for each batch.