Scarthingmoor
Well-Known Member
I've got a 2L growler, conditioned with some corn sugar. I'm wondering if the Growler would take longer to condition than a smaller bottle?
Do Growlers take longer to condition?
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Lechien
Well-Known Member
I don't think most growlers are made to carb in, you may have a bomb in the making.
Ravenshead
Well-Known Member
From what I've read, growlers can't withstand the pressure associated with conditioning. That may be a rather large bottle bomb you're sitting on.
Your growler might explode long before it gets the chance to condition....Growlers are meant to hold carbonaTED beer, not carbonATING beer. There is a difference.
To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.
Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.
Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.
Our Buddy Rukus
I think it goes down to this.....is it worth playing Russian Roulette with your money and the time you spent bringing your brew along from grain to bottling day???
To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.
Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.
Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.
Our Buddy Rukus
This is because during carbing, the pressure can go above 30 or 40 PSI. I have a thread in the cider forum where I did several tests bottle carbing sweet hard cider. There is allot of data there if your interested.
I have a bottle with a pressure gauge on it. I recorded pressures during the carbing process. This is how the data was generated. I also recorded pressures while pasteurizing the cider.
I recently bottled some lager I made. I also filled my gauge bottle and my lower pressure gauge bottle pegged at 35 PSI as that was the limit of the gauge. It probably ended up in the 40's, but no way to tell for sure.
When we bottle condition beer, we are really simulating force carbing like the keg folks do. We cause a ferment by adding sugar. This creates a high pressure in the bottle. CO2 doesn't like to dissolve in a warm liquid. We then put some bottles in the fridge. The temperature of the liquid drops and the CO2 then begins to dissolve in the liquid.
It seems to take several days at fridge temperatures for the CO2 to fully saturate the liquid for a maximum saturation for that liquid temperature.
While the CO2 is moving into the liquid, the pressure slowly drops. I've monitored this process as well with the pressure gauge.
Pressures go way higher than folks think while bottle conditioning. In the following data, I carbed sweet hard cider and stopped the carbing and then pasteurized the cider when the bottle was at 22 PSI. My Lager went above 35 PSI. The data doesn't show the extremes the pressure rises with beer as I stopped the cider at 22 PSI, but it would have continued if i hadn't stopped it.
The gauge bottle has a nice side effect, it tells you when your bottles are conditioned as the pressure rise stops. I then throw them in the Fridge to cold condition for several days before I open. The gauge also tells you when they are carbed as the pressure drop stops. Pretty basic really.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/bottle-carbing-idea-final-data-review-205862/
I think it goes down to this.....is it worth playing Russian Roulette with your money and the time you spent bringing your brew along from grain to bottling day???
Mpavlik22
Well-Known Member
I've successfully used growlers to carb in. It takes just as long as regular bottles.
And no I've never had any growler bombs. as long as u don't add more than required amount of priming sugar you'll b fine.
And no I've never had any growler bombs. as long as u don't add more than required amount of priming sugar you'll b fine.
Now in answer to your original question about bottle size and carbing, a larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...
Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...
Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...
So yes a larger bottle like a growler, if it could withstand the pressure, would take longer to carb and condition than a 12 ounce bottle.
Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...
Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...
So yes a larger bottle like a growler, if it could withstand the pressure, would take longer to carb and condition than a 12 ounce bottle.
Lechien
Well-Known Member
This is direct from northern brewer website:
Standard issue 64 oz liquid libation transport vessel for the Civilian Brewing Division. This growler features a blank white space for adding in details on the beer inside and date bottled; using a dry-erase marker allows you to change it at any time. Takes a #6 stopper or a 38 mm screw cap. Pressure capable to 2.4 volumes of co2, not recommended for highly carbonated beers. Avoid bottle carbonating or priming with these growlers, as an unintentionally high level of carbonation could cause the glass to break.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/civilian-brewing-division-growler.html
I would hate to see you have a mess.
Standard issue 64 oz liquid libation transport vessel for the Civilian Brewing Division. This growler features a blank white space for adding in details on the beer inside and date bottled; using a dry-erase marker allows you to change it at any time. Takes a #6 stopper or a 38 mm screw cap. Pressure capable to 2.4 volumes of co2, not recommended for highly carbonated beers. Avoid bottle carbonating or priming with these growlers, as an unintentionally high level of carbonation could cause the glass to break.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/civilian-brewing-division-growler.html
I would hate to see you have a mess.
+1, and those are about the standard thickness of most growlers available, not the fancy heavy decorated ones, but your standard brewpub growler most of us have lying around.
There's enough "growler goes boom" threads to mitigate those folks who have tried and been successful, to me it's russian roulette to use them, they may work, or you may have several gallons of beer pouring on your carpet. I don't know why the difference between putting carbed beer in something and trying to force something to carb in them is so alien to most folks.
FightingBob
Well-Known Member
I've successfully carbed in one of those 2L Rock Bottom growlers that looks like this:
Does that mean it's okay to use this? Maybe I just got lucky. I ran out of bottles on a low-carbed stout and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Does that mean it's okay to use this? Maybe I just got lucky. I ran out of bottles on a low-carbed stout and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
I've successfully carbed in one of those large in a 2L Rock Bottom growler that looks like this:
Those tend to be thicker walled than the basic ones folks have lying around. I think on one of the vendor's sites they do say it could be carbed in.
Would I? Hell no, something that fancy and expensive, I would save to serve carbed beer in, if I kegged.
Scarthingmoor
Well-Known Member
Mine is already primed in a similar growler to the one above, going on 4-5 weeks in the bottle. I figure I'll open it tonight to be safe. Sounds like colder temps drop the pressure (am I right about that?) If it hasn't gone yet, is it safe to assume that I can throw it in the fridge now and not have it blow on me?
Scarthingmoor
Well-Known Member
To avoid posting another thread, maybe I'll just throw a quick question out here as well. Is it better to batch prime or to prime bottles individually? Certainly seems easier to do a whole batch. What's the thinking on this?
I think it is really better to bulk prime (boiling your priming sugar in 2 cups of water for 5-10 minutes then adding it to your bottling bucket while you are racking your beer into the bucket-this will mix the priming solution and beer thoroughly.)
You have more control over priming this way. Adding dry sugar into each bottle can cause a couple things- the mentos/diet coke gushing effect, OR inconsistant carbonation, it is really difficult to accurate measure out a tiny amounts of sugars without getting a few grains more or less in each bottle, you could end up with inconsistant carbonation.
Carbonation drops are ok, but some folks say it takes longer for them to carb up than the 3 weeks @ 70 degrees it usually takes, and there's a lot more sedimentation in the bottles.
But other folks like them.
Ok this growler bomb thing took me by surprise. I got a 2L Altenmünster Oktoberfest growler, with a swing top, and used it for bottling/conditioning a red ale. The beer was fully carbed and tasted great after 1+ month conditioning in the growler.
But you're saying these can become huge bottle bombs?
This bottle is HEAVY and the glass seems way thicker and more durable than most beer bottles. So is the danger here because there's almost .5 gallon carbing up? I figured this monstrous bottle would be more safe. Pic of the growler is below (the bigger of the 2 bottles)
But you're saying these can become huge bottle bombs?
This bottle is HEAVY and the glass seems way thicker and more durable than most beer bottles. So is the danger here because there's almost .5 gallon carbing up? I figured this monstrous bottle would be more safe. Pic of the growler is below (the bigger of the 2 bottles)
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
Unibrow said:
I would say that's more of a big bottle than growler. Anytime you are pressurizing a glass container you are taking a risk. I would guess that one would be ok though.
Thanks Jeepin - I brought it to a party and everybody was calling a growler so maybe I just misunderstood what I had.
Yeah, the glass is so thick it didn't even cross my mind that it could explode. Seems like the most durable bottle I've ever seen, besides those "stone" bottles with Delirium.
Yeah, the glass is so thick it didn't even cross my mind that it could explode. Seems like the most durable bottle I've ever seen, besides those "stone" bottles with Delirium.
+1 I have had the exact same experience as this guy
wolfman_48442
Well-Known Member
We could probably find examples of people that have successfully run with scissors too, but I hope none of us would recommend actually doing it.
We're all here to enjoy beer, and doing it safely is the best way!
Regulation
Well-Known Member
I have 10 of these which I bought in bulk 15 bucks each.. It states they are German made and good up to 4 barg Almost 60 psig..
I have carbed/ conditioned in each one 6+ times no problems. Although I plan to start kegging and just using them to transport beer.
But If you have growlers like these they are great to carb in.
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