Fermcap-s: Am I expecting too much?

Saturday, I brewed a Belgian Blond (OG 1.066) with a 1.5 L starter of Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes pitched 20hrs after making up starter. Batch size was 5.25g.

Fermented at 64* in a 6g Better Bottle. Did not use a blowoff, although typically I would have, because I was using Fermcap (1st batch using the stuff). Fermentation was noticeable (quarter inch krausen of small, delicate bubbles) after 6 hrs. At that time I added 10 drops of Fermcap-s. After 8 hours the krausen was about an inch high. I added an additional 6 drops of Fermcap as I was worried about a blowoff.

Sunday morning I woke to krausen in the airlock. I quickly rigged up a blow-off tube and added an additional 10 drops of Fermcap, which knocked down the krausen pretty well. Sunday afternoon, the krausen had risen again and the beer was blowing off foam. At that point I added about 20 drops of Fermcap, which again knocked down the krausen. Sunday night, yep you guessed it, the beer was blowing off again. At this point I said "F*ck it" and let it blow off foam.

By Monday night, the krausen had finally fallen some on its own. In total I lost about a quart of beer.

My question is am I just expecting too much from Fermcap? I bought it to prevent losing beer (and the other goodies that effect bitterness and head retention) from blow-off when fermenting in my BB. Have others experienced similiar results when using Fermcap in a 6g BB?

I noticed that this yeast doesn't churn as much as other yeasts I've used. Could it be possible that the Fermcap just settled into the trub and was therefore ineffective?

FYI, yes I shook the Fermcap before I added it and yes, it was refrigerated.

i always just racked into the BB onto about 5 or 6 drops of fermcap, then use my drill-mounted whip to oxygenate the wort, then pitch yeast and never needed a blowoff tube. when you were adding these drops over time, were you just dropping them drop by drop into the krausen or were you mixing it in in some way?

I actually add mine in the boil and it seems to have some carryover effect into the ferment. I think rawlus is right in figuring it needs to be mixed in somehow.

I add 1/2 tsp to the boil only (7.25 gal) and I have no boil overs whatsoever. There's clearly a carryover effect as my fermentations now are very quiet with very little blow off.

My experience is it only helps in the boil. I've never had any effect in the fermentor.

Same here- I only use it to suppress foam in the boil.

passedpawn said:

My experience is it only helps in the boil. I've never had any effect in the fermentor.

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I use it in the fermenters as well as my starter flasks. It works very well at eliminating blowoffs. I usually wait until the krausen is getting close to the top of the vessels then add a few drops.

The only time fermcap didn't work for me was when I used german ale yeast at 65*f. The next time I dropped the temp to 58* and fermcap controlled it.

bja, it sounds like your process is identical to what I did. Do you mix in the Fermcap or just add the drops onto the krausen?

I'll try adding the Fermcap before I aerate and hope the mixing helps.

26 drops of FermCap?

Oh my.

braceful said:

bja, it sounds like your process is identical to what I did. Do you mix in the Fermcap or just add the drops onto the krausen?

I'll try adding the Fermcap before I aerate and hope the mixing helps.

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Onto the krausen, and I don't add them unless I think it's going to blowoff, so no mixing at that point.

passedpawn said:

My experience is it only helps in the boil. I've never had any effect in the fermentor.

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bummer. I was hoping this would help my starters. Some starters have a wicked krausen and others have barely one at all, sometimes with the same strains. I've frosted my stir plate with yeast a couple times too many.

It works extremely well in the boil. For fermentation, it's hit-or-miss. never had a problem with starters, but several fermentations did blow off.

In general, I found that simply using a blow-off tube is the best way to minimize blow-offs. It seems like each time I use a blow-off, nothing happens Kind of like how wort will only boil over when you are not looking.

Yea, whoever said 'A watched pot never boils.' obv never homebrewed.

jmo88 said:

bummer. I was hoping this would help my starters. Some starters have a wicked krausen and others have barely one at all, sometimes with the same strains. I've frosted my stir plate with yeast a couple times too many.

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If you use a stirplate, you might try it. I suspect its effectiveness has something to do with keeping it in suspension. So, maybe it works in a very active fermentation or a starter with a stirplate.

i think that its definitely needs something keeping it in suspension. i love it in boils, but i have never gotten any benefit from it during fermentation.

used fermcap for the first time this weekend in an 8 gal boil, and two dribbles (how are you supposed to get drops out of that paste?) totally killed the foam on the boil. There was no carry over to the fermentor, but I have learned to use a small blow off tube (beer line through a drilled stopper) in every batch. What can hurt if the tube is never needed, but if you have an airlock in and need the tube, then there is trouble.

Time to get an extra Better-Bottle, move up to bigger batch size, and just split your batch between fermenters

I do 8 gallon batches for that reason.

+1 , I use blowoff each and every time. I may switch that to an airlock after about 2 weeks, but I always use blowoff and only use fermcap for the boil.

ArcaneXor said:

It works extremely well in the boil. For fermentation, it's hit-or-miss. never had a problem with starters, but several fermentations did blow off.

In general, I found that simply using a blow-off tube is the best way to minimize blow-offs. It seems like each time I use a blow-off, nothing happens Kind of like how wort will only boil over when you are not looking.

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RE: blowoffs - Kaiser did an experiment that seemed to show that letting the kraeusen fall back into the beer (specifically, the brown gunk on top of the kraeusen) left some harshness that subsided with aging but was still detectable.

IMO, a tiny bit of blow-off (just enough to push the brown gunk out, or at least enough to make sure it sticks to the neck area of a carboy if you use a carboy) is a good thing and something I actually try to achieve. But not blowing off quarts of liquid, just enough to get the gunk out. Food for thought.

my experience with fermcaps in starters suggests that it depends on the yeast strain.
For WL 001 (cali ale) it works fine, but with white labs Pacific ale yeast, forget about it. the krausen that yeast forms is like rubber...fermcaps ain't touchin' it.