Anyone tied to Clone Southern Tier's Chocolate Stout???

My brother in law and I stumbled upon this brew a few months ago and he's coming to visit again soon and is interested in getting in on a brew day. I thought we'd try to brew a clone of this while he's here.

Anyone?

The breakfast porter I brewed and have in the recipes here remind me 100% of the hops flavor profiles of that stout, I assume with the chocolate and lactose (I assume it takes), I'll have to add more quantity, but the ratios and types seem perfect.

As far as grains and malts, I'm thinking...

6lb Amber LME
2lbs 2-Row
1lb C50-60
1lb 8oz Chocolate malt
6oz Honey Malt
12oz Belgian Chocolate (enough?)
12oz Lactose (more?)

Are you talking about Chokolat? I haven't but would be curious if anyone has a recipe.

Yeah. After I posted the OG Post, I realized it's spelled Choklat

This is what it says on their sight:

11.0% abv • 195º L • Imperial Chocolate Stout • 22 oz / 1/6 keg
2-row barley / caramel 60 malt / barley flakes / chocolate malt / bittersweet Belgian chocolate / kettle hops: chinook & willamette

You can use beercalculus to adjust to the right IBU's, SRM, abv, etc.
I would llok at a typical Imperial stout recipe for a basis, plug in the variants (bittersweet chocolate, etc) than balance it out on that site. Good luck!

hmmm I kind of want to try this now, sounds really good! Post up how it comes out if you do. You could probably get close doing a liquid extract base with specialty grains (trying to find out more info).

Thanks Brew for the info.

I will adjust the recipe I started with and begin the calculations. Will update as I go.

Thanks again

This is what I'm pretty much settled on...

Partial Mash:
2lb 8oz - 2 Row
1lb 8oz C60
1lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Flaked Barley

Remaining Fermentables:
6lb Amber LME
3lb 4oz Dark LME
1lb Light DME

Boil Profile:
First Wort - .5oz Chinook, .5oz Willamette
60min - .5oz Chinook. .75oz Willamette
20min - .75oz Willamette
15min - 1T Irish Moss
Flame out - 1lb Belgian Semi-Sweet Chocolate

Calculations
OG: 1.108
FG: 1.027
for 10.8% ABV

39 SRM
50.7 IBU

Fits the profile for a Russian Imperial Stout.

I still can't decide on a Liquid Yeast to use that will handle 11% alcohol and not give off the fruity esters.

Any help?

You could use a wine yeast, I wouldn't worry about fruitiness from yeast so much with a stout I'm pretty sure most stout yeast types are suppose to give off more of a fruitiness.

Another thing you can do is add yeast nutrient and potassium sort of like you would a mead. You would do it in stages at the beginning, middle and towards the end of fermentation but no later. This would help keep the yeast going strong.

You could also look on wyeast or white labs sites to find a suitable yeast strain for your requirements.

Thanks.

no problem... I'm surprised you haven't gotten many other comments???

I think it sounds delicious, will need quite a bit of time conditioning though. Probably three months at the least.

I can handle that.

I can't wait to give it a try.

Any update on how this wored out for you? I'm interested in cloning this beer as well. It has a insanely intense chocolate taste that no other beer I've tasted can get close to =) So good =)

I haven't gotten around to brew it yet. I am planning a brew day soon though!

Cubslover said:

This is what I'm pretty much settled on...

Partial Mash:
2lb 8oz - 2 Row
1lb 8oz C60
1lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Flaked Barley

Remaining Fermentables:
6lb Amber LME
3lb 4oz Dark LME
1lb Light DME

Boil Profile:
First Wort - .5oz Chinook, .5oz Willamette
60min - .5oz Chinook. .75oz Willamette
20min - .75oz Willamette
15min - 1T Irish Moss
Flame out - 1lb Belgian Semi-Sweet Chocolate

Calculations
OG: 1.108
FG: 1.027
for 10.8% ABV

39 SRM
50.7 IBU

Fits the profile for a Russian Imperial Stout.

I still can't decide on a Liquid Yeast to use that will handle 11% alcohol and not give off the fruity esters.

Any help?

Click to expand...

Did you decide what yeast to use. I was thinking of using white labs English ale yeast for a very similar beer. Of course I am planning on a huge starter made with a stirplate. What do you think?

Anyone tried this recipe yet? This is next in line after my Two-Hearted Ale clone. I'm anxious to hear how it comes out, specifically if it produces the bold chocolate flavor. I've only had this beer on draught so I'm anxious to try it in a bottle too.

I know they say that there is real chocolate in there. But, it straight up tastes like artificial chocolate. Akin to extract. The aroma I get from it is scratch and sniff sticker chocolate. With a real chalky, fake aftertaste.

Regardless of my thoughts on what they actually put in there, I am interested in how this turned out.

I have also been wanting to brew something like this. I made a post earlier but have not gotten any replies yet. I am more interested in making a super chocolaty stout and not necessarily cloning Southern Tier. I am brewing this on Thursday.

Here is the base recipe I am planning on using. I am using the DME since I am new to all-grain and the last RIS I did my efficiency was lower than planned I think due to the amount of grain in my mash tun.

Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70%

14 lb - Pale 2-Row (63.64%)
0.5 lb - CaraMunich (2.27%)
1 lb - Special B (4.55%)
1.5 lb - Roasted Barley (6.82%)
0.5 lb - Chocolate (2.27%)
0.5 lb - Brown (2.27%)
1 lb - Milk Sugar (4.55%)
3 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light (13.64%)

HOPS:
3 oz - Chinook (AA 13) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
10 oz - Ghirardelli Unsweetened Cocoa, Time: 1 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil
2 each - Vanilla Beans, Time: 1 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

Mash at 154
Mash out 168
Batch Sparge

Dnolan36 said:

I have also been wanting to brew something like this. I made a post earlier but have not gotten any replies yet. I am more interested in making a super chocolaty stout and not necessarily cloning Southern Tier. I am brewing this on Thursday.

Here is the base recipe I am planning on using. I am using the DME since I am new to all-grain and the last RIS I did my efficiency was lower than planned I think due to the amount of grain in my mash tun.

Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70%

14 lb - Pale 2-Row (63.64%)
0.5 lb - CaraMunich (2.27%)
1 lb - Special B (4.55%)
1.5 lb - Roasted Barley (6.82%)
0.5 lb - Chocolate (2.27%)
0.5 lb - Brown (2.27%)
1 lb - Milk Sugar (4.55%)
3 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light (13.64%)

HOPS:
3 oz - Chinook (AA 13) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
10 oz - Ghirardelli Unsweetened Cocoa, Time: 1 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil
2 each - Vanilla Beans, Time: 1 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

Mash at 154
Mash out 168
Batch Sparge

Click to expand...

I just brewed an imperial chocolate stout that I tasted when transferring to secondary the other day. I don't have the recipe in front of me but it had 1lb of chocolate malt (amongst other grains). It tasted amazing. And very chocolatey for having no cocoa or actual chocolate in it. Mine was an extract with a mini-mash. It was my first mini-mash and it went horribly wrong (very low efficiency, took way too long etc.).

Interesting.. the thing that intrigues me about the southern tier is that it tastes ALOT of chocolate. Not just "alot for having no chocolate in it" I'm after something with a powerful chocolate drive in it wich the stout backbone.

I recently brewed an Imperial Chocolate Stout at 10.4% ABV. I used 8oz of unsweetened Ghirardelli cocoa powder in the boil. I pulled out about 10oz of wort out during the boil, mixed in and dissolved the cocoa and dumped it back into the boil with 5 minutes left in the boil. Then aged it with vanilla beans and cocao nibs. It tastes like strong dark bitter chocolate. I wish it was a little sweeter, maybe a little lactose. Either way it is pretty good.

I'm pretty darn sure that this beer has Lacto in it as well as vanilla. That's why it's flavor profile is so close to Creme Brulee.

I live relatively close to Southern Tier, about 20 minutes away, and I too am a fan of the Chokolat. I tried to make my own clone using a partial mash recipe. It turned out as a good stout with some chocolate taste, it was no where near the actual Chokolat. I chatted with an employee at Southern Tier about their recipe and he didn't divulge much, but he did say they add a liquid extract to get the strong chocolate flavor. "We add it in my the buckets."

Extract? I would have never guessed. I would have guessed a ton of cocoa husks in the mash and chocolate malts at least. Did you speak to a brewer or someone else? I wonder if you emailed the brewer to ask, would the answer be the same?

I too am in search of getting that amazing chocolate flavor of Chokolat. It's one of my favorite beers. I recently brewed this Dark Chocolate stout recipe. It came out very good with some good chocolate notes, but it still don't have that "hit you over the head" chocolate taste like Chokolat. And it used chocolate malt, cocoa powder, chocolate extract and lactose. The only thing I can think is to up the level of every chocolate addition and probably doubling or tripling the chocolate extract and also adding cocoa nibs into secondary.

Hello said:

Extract? I would have never guessed. I would have guessed a ton of cocoa husks in the mash and chocolate malts at least. Did you speak to a brewer or someone else? I wonder if you emailed the brewer to ask, would the answer be the same?

Click to expand...

It's really not surprising at all. I know that as homebrewers we like to use the source material whenever possible, but on a commercial scale it's just not as feasible.

For example when adding vanilla beans, everyone here will tell you to add whole vanilla beans, but do you really think that they are splitting up hundreds of $5 vanilla beans for a batch? I guarantee they are using a bucket of vanilla extract. I have a friend that works in the flavor industry and he said that many craft brewers use liquid flavors and extracts. It's just more practical on the scale they are dealing with.

I read somewhere online that Southern Tier possibly uses Godiva Chocolate Liquor as the extract. It might've actually been an older thread somewhere on HBT.

mtnagel said:

It's really not surprising at all. I know that as homebrewers we like to use the source material whenever possible, but on a commercial scale it's just not as feasible.

For example when adding vanilla beans, everyone here will tell you to add whole vanilla beans, but do you really think that they are splitting up hundreds of $5 vanilla beans for a batch? I guarantee they are using a bucket of vanilla extract. I have a friend that works in the flavor industry and he said that many craft brewers use liquid flavors and extracts. It's just more practical on the scale they are dealing with.

Click to expand...

It is certainly surprising if ST uses an extract in my opinion. I really thought they would have sourced something more natural. That is what I should have written. I know brewers and breweries and I know they use extracts, but if ST does then it just surprised me. That being said...I, as well as others, missed this post...

Brew_4iT said:

This is what it says on their sight:

11.0% abv • 195º L • Imperial Chocolate Stout • 22 oz / 1/6 keg
2-row barley / caramel 60 malt / barley flakes / chocolate malt / bittersweet Belgian chocolate / kettle hops: chinook & willamette

You can use beercalculus to adjust to the right IBU's, SRM, abv, etc.
I would llok at a typical Imperial stout recipe for a basis, plug in the variants (bittersweet chocolate, etc) than balance it out on that site. Good luck!

Click to expand...

So if they do use extract for this recipe then I would be a little surprised. Not sure they would openly list that on the bottle, but then again, why not?

This is going into BS today for a future brew.

They probably leave it off because some people don't think it's, "natural." Even you said:

Hello said:

I really thought they would have sourced something more natural.

Click to expand...

Anyway, I'd be curious if you can get to ST's chocolate level without extracts. The recipe I linked to above used similar levels of chocolate malt and lactose, 2/3rds the chocolate AND chocolate extract at bottling and the chocolate is no where close to ST's Chokolat.

Hello said:

It is certainly surprising if ST uses an extract in my opinion. I really thought they would have sourced something more natural. That is what I should have written. I know brewers and breweries and I know they use extracts, but if ST does then it just surprised me. That being said...I, as well as others, missed this post...



So if they do use extract for this recipe then I would be a little surprised. Not sure they would openly list that on the bottle, but then again, why not?

This is going into BS today for a future brew.

Click to expand...

Southern Tier uses a ton of extracts. Pumpking has extract. Creme brulee has extract, and chokolat definitely has exctract. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but a lot of folks due frown upon it, which is surely why they aren't open about it on the labels.

In for this one

A lot of the clone recipes on this page are using cocoa powder instead of bittersweet chocolate. That could be the reason they are missing the intense chocolate flavor that Choklat has.

When using whole chocolate it is important to add it at the begining of the boil to volatize the oils in the chocolate, otherwise you will get poor head retention and an oily slick on top. See BYO article: https://byo.com/stories/item/313-brewing-with-chocolate

In my clone I am using semi-sweet chocolate chips and cocoa liquor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_liquor) wich is basically unsweetened baking chocolate. I'm not going to bother with cocoa nibs in the secondary since there will be plenty of cocoa solids in the fermentor left over from the chocolate added durring the boil.

If you want a hit-you-over-the-head sweet chocolate flavor in your beer, you can add hersey's syrup with your priming sugar right before bottling. Just make sure to adjust the amount of priming sugar to compensate for how much sugar there is in the syrup you are adding.

Has anyone who has tried Chokolat had Samuel Smith's Organic Chocolate Stout as well? And if so, how do they compare?


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rocketsan said:

Has anyone who has tried Chokolat had Samuel Smith's Organic Chocolate Stout as well? And if so, how do they compare?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Click to expand...

They don't, in my oh so humble opinion

Smith's is far more bitter and less on the chocolate. I'm the type of guy that eats dark chocolate plain and in large quantities, so if a stout is going to go chocolate it better go all the way. The ST Choklat stout is probably my favorite chocolate stout, perhaps tying with Rogue's Double Chocolate Stout.

As a bit of info on my opinion, I don't much like milk chocolate (at least plain) and think that Hershey's chocolate isn't worth my time

Managed to find Choklat on my last trip to the U.S., it was good but I still prefer Samuel's...and both are trumped by the Creme Brûlée stout.

I'm trying this for the first time. Absolutely one of my favorite stout I have ever had.
Does anyone have a confirmed clone recipe of this beer? There been many options on this forum however as anybody actually tried it and if so how close did it come. What would you do differently what would you do the same?

One of my favorites as well, but I have not tried to clone it.

Posted in the wrong thread... Doh!!

Cubslover said:

This is what I'm pretty much settled on...



Partial Mash:

2lb 8oz - 2 Row

1lb 8oz C60

1lb Chocolate Malt

1lb Flaked Barley



Remaining Fermentables:

6lb Amber LME

3lb 4oz Dark LME

1lb Light DME



Boil Profile:

First Wort - .5oz Chinook, .5oz Willamette

60min - .5oz Chinook. .75oz Willamette

20min - .75oz Willamette

15min - 1T Irish Moss

Flame out - 1lb Belgian Semi-Sweet Chocolate



Calculations

OG: 1.108

FG: 1.027

for 10.8% ABV



39 SRM

50.7 IBU



Fits the profile for a Russian Imperial Stout.



I still can't decide on a Liquid Yeast to use that will handle 11% alcohol and not give off the fruity esters.



Any help?

Click to expand...

How did this turn out?