i REALLY need help with my brewing / water dilemma

So on and off ive noticed my beers with the same faint or sometimes very pronounced plastic flavor. I KNOW WHAT YOURE THINKING. but before you jump to conclusions, hear me out.

I have been brewing for 1.5 yrs now, and i still havent really hit a level of satisfaction with my brews. i feel i have a respectable amount of knowledge, which i have aquired from this glorious website and books on brewing. i REALLY need to figure out why all my hard work and efforts are returning such disappointing results.

first, allow me to explain my brewing process. I do 5 Gal all-grain batches, mashed in a 5 gal circular rubbermaid cooler with SS braid, double batch sparges, w/ an 8 Gal kettle for the boil, IC gets wort down to <80 in ~15 min. i ferment in a dedicated beer fridge with a temp controller, so fermentation temps are always steady and well in range. i always do 1L starters of my washed yeasts (mostly WLP001 and 002) with usually at least 8 hours on a stirplate (high-krausening). i check to make sure the starters smell good before pitching. I only secondary for dry hopping or some other "special" reason. i make sure the beer is done fermenting before racking. i do both bottling and kegging, but keg most often. my sanitation is good, but not the best. although, im fairly certain that is not the cause.

so ive been brainstorming and researching and have come up with what i think the possibilities are for the off flavor.

1) most likely i think could be chlorine in the water. i have always used hose water for my brewing. i always thought the hose water tasted fine but my father says he can taste the chlorine. so i just brewed up two 5 Gal batches 1 week ago from today (double brew day) making sure to use campden tablets to treat the water before adding to my HLT. so i suppose we'll find out if that cures my problem in about 2 weeks.

2) what i think is less likely, infection.

this leads me to my water dilemma. i would like to send a water sample to ward labs to find out my waters composition.

should i send them a sample straight from the hose? from the tap w/out the hose? should i get a big charcoal filter for the hose and then send them a sample from that?

i am asking anyone and everyone: what are your opinions on my plastic taste? and what would you do in my situation?

i am a dedicated brewer who has been down on his luck and still been putting in a LOT of effort. please help me HBT, youre my only hope.

Campden fixed my similar problems. Also, it's chloramine that will give you that flavor. Chlorine gets boiled off.

I would try to look up or request water information first. I found mine posted on this website. It's on the water company website also just much harder to find.

dale:

THIS is the water quality report available to me online, but it doesnt seem to be very helpful. my area is in the SFPUC region (blue).

also, ive heard that the water you get at your tap can be very different from those reports..

I had a similar problem and I am using almost the exact same setup as you. I also narrowed it down to the hose water being a problem, and I got an inline charcoal filter from MoreBeer (this guy http://morebeer.com/view_product/16762//Water_Filter_Kit_-_10_inch ) for my last 2 batches that will hopefully solve that.

I was also going to follow the advice on another thread and get a "potable water" hose just to make sure.

munche:

ive been eyeing that one as well. have you seen results yet?

I am kegging them this week, I'll let you know!

are you at least using an RV white hose for delivering your water? i mean, you have the process nailed down really well it sounds like, but in my opinion, you should never use a vinyl standard hose to provide brewing water. that will definitely produce off flavors. my hose water stinks like all hell when i first turn it on. i just use buckets to transport water from my tap, which i know has chlorine in it, i always add campden to it just in case there are chloramines that they didn't tell me about. insurance goes a long way.

android:

i am using a standard green hose. ive tried the water, and while it does taste chlorine-y to some extent, its not particularly aromatic.

is it even possible for beers with chlorine in them to have the plastic flavor TOTALLY dominate? has anyone else experienced it this bad and then fix it through water treatment? i just wanna know that im not on some totally different level.

CaliBrewin said:

android:

i am using a standard green hose. ive tried the water, and while it does taste chlorine-y to some extent, its not particularly aromatic.

is it even possible for beers with chlorine in them to have the plastic flavor TOTALLY dominate? has anyone else experienced it this bad and then fix it through water treatment? i just wanna know that im not on some totally different level.

Click to expand...

Chlorine and phenols combine to form chlorophenols which can smell like band aids, chloroseptic, etc.

The threshold for chlorophenols is much lower than for chlorine or for phenol so, yes, a subtle tasting amount of chlorine will lead to insidious levels of chlorophenol.

Switch to a drinking water hose, or better no hose and treat the water with campden to remove chlorine.

dominate? mebbe not, but def distracting from the beer's intended flavor. all water now used to brew is treated for chlorine/chlorimines via campden tab.

that said, I'd not drink from a garden hose nor use its output in brewing.

If the water is suspect, the easiest way to eliminate it as a variable is to just get RO (reverse osmosis) water from the grocery store machine. I use nothing but RO water, because we are on a well and our water is loaded with dissolved calcium and iron and unsuitable for brewing. I get uniformly good results with RO water, modifying it, of course, if something like Burton salts are required for, say, an ESB.

I had that same off flavor in my homebrew and I finally tracked it down to the chlorine in my water. Now I only use water from my undersink water filter system which has a drinking water spigot installed next to the regular faucet. The filter housing will accept a variety of water filters of different grades and prices but I only use solid block carbon filter cartridges @~$20 ea. I suggest you do like me and always use filtered water for the boil, rinsing tubing,buckets,carboys,bottles,kegs-everything that touches your beer. Good luck and happy brewing.

This thread was active quite recently. It may have the answer you're looking for:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/medicine-band-aid-off-flavor-solved-202469/

rico & beerbeque:

thanks, these are all great suggestions. im hoping the chlorine is the culprit. if thats the case, the two brews i just made should be clean. i will definately post my results when they are ready (~3 wks). if it does turn out to be chlorine, i will most likely get a large carbon filter.

tunoffun:

i read that thread and im pretty sure thats not it. i tasted the hose water directly and it did not taste like plastic, but chlorine was present. however, i will make sure to not use the hose in the future just to be safe.

I noticed water problems when I moved into my new apartment and my beer started to suck. GO TO YOUR GROCERY STORE AND BUY GALLON JUGS OF SPRING WATER. Use it as is and don't add any brewing salts (until you get a feel for the new water). This did wonders for me, especially for subtler beers (lighter malt profile, not too hoppy).

A couple of thought....
1. Not a big fan of drinking water from a regular garden hose, I would never use it for brewing..EVER!
2. Are you using HOT water on your hose?
3. Even if you are using a RV or "Safe" hose (I understad your not) Never use "hot" water to start your brew with....
those are my thought at the moment.
Cheers
Jay

What has worked for me so far is the following. I have a whole house filter, and a water softener. I hit the bypass on the softener, and then measure out all of the water I need the day before I brew. This comes out of the tap, as cold water. I go straight from the tap into a 1 gallon container, then into the kettle. I then dose it with campden tablets and let it sit overnight. I had an issue where the local water supply got a massive dose of chloramine to combat some other seasonal water supply issues, that contributed to a ruined batch of beer. They don't normally do this though, but they don't exactly announce it if they do, and it's piece of mind.

I leave my kettle full of water on the stove. When I am ready to start brewing I just turn on the heat and start getting all of my stuff out for the brew. It shaves alot of time off my brew day (I just moved it to the day before, but still...) and my stove can handle getting the water to 180 range just fine. I move everything off of the mash tun to the kettle outside for the big burner to boil after that.

I generally go by the rule, if I wouldn't drink it before it becomes beer, why would I drink it afterwards. I'm not a fan of garden hose water, so I don't use it.

I would say ditch the garden hose.

I had a water test done on my tap water, and over all the water is suitable for brewing.

With that knowledge, what I do is get my water setup the night before. I fill from the tap (using a vinyl brewing hose) for whatever amount of water I need. Then put it in the garage and hit it with some campden tabs to get rid of the chloramines that are in the water. This has worked out really well for me.

Obviously if the water from your tap is questionable, then a filter may be needed as well.

I use "city water" in all my brews as of late. I run it all through a 3 stage PuR filter that is attached to the kitchen sink. It is cheap and filters are pretty much everywhere. I have no plastic taste so far. Oddly, my best beer to date was brewed this way...I have 2 more brewing now.

so obviously my main concern is ridding my brew of the plastic flavor, which is most likely caused by chloramines in my tap water. my second desire is having some consistency in the water profile of the water that i will use for brewing. i figure that before i can send a water sample to Ward Labs, i will have to decide on a final method of effective water treatment to be used thereon out for consistency of the water profile for every brew.

its looking like getting THIS bad boy might be my best bet. it would be used directly off the tap w/out the hose. it would only be used for brewing water and the cleaning of my brewing hardware. to be clear, this would be the ONLY method of water treatment. i wouldnt use campden anymore to make sure the water profile is not altered.

it sounds like a solid plan to me in my own head. can you guys spot any problems with this game plan? based on experience, do you folks think this is sufficient water treatment?

Personally, I would ditch the hose just to be safe, and then take a sample straight from the tap and have it tested. This way you know what ion levels are naturally in your tap water. Then, I would decide what to do from there. In the long run it will probably save you some time, money and headaches. You can't remedy a water problem if you don't know what the actual problem is. I wouldn't go off and buy drinking water or RO water and brewing salts straight away. This is likely going to confuse you even more, and will probably cost you more in the long run. You don't need to use bottled water if your tap water problem is chlorine or Ph or something else that can be simply fixed.

In my situation, my water is generally fine for brewing from an ion and taste perspective, with the exception that it is extremely alkaline (hard). My mash Ph doesn't get low enough, so I get a lot of harsh astringent flavors from the grains and hops. Now, I'm treating it with a Ph buffer that costs me about an extra $0.25 a batch. That's a lot cheaper than buying 10 gals of bottled water per batch. The reason I know how to remedy the problem is because I got my water tested before I started trying to solve the problem.

A bit of thread necromancy here, but adding the charcoal filter seems to have pretty much eliminated the problem. I also took this threads advice and bought the white RV/Marine hose to replace my old garden hose, but I haven't brewed with that yet.

Just thought I'd add my results in case it helps someone else

It may not be the most cost effective, but I'd vote for the switch to jugs of spring water in the meantime. I usually use half "spring" and half "drinking" (RO) water. That's a good base that's free of chorine chemicals and a decent middle of the road profile.

I say this because after a few bad batches in a row, you might get frustrated to the point of leaving the hobby. Plus, water filters aren't cheap to set up, and you'd still need to get a chemicals analysis of your water and then learn how to adjust it. IMHO, water chemistry is by far the most complicated factor of brewing, and is something i myself still haven't groked entirely.

Sorry in advance if the topic is a few weeks out of date, didn't see it until the bump today.

CaliBrewin said:

so obviously my main concern is ridding my brew of the plastic flavor, which is most likely caused by chloramines in my tap water. my second desire is having some consistency in the water profile of the water that i will use for brewing. i figure that before i can send a water sample to Ward Labs, i will have to decide on a final method of effective water treatment to be used thereon out for consistency of the water profile for every brew.

its looking like getting THIS bad boy might be my best bet. it would be used directly off the tap w/out the hose. it would only be used for brewing water and the cleaning of my brewing hardware. to be clear, this would be the ONLY method of water treatment. i wouldnt use campden anymore to make sure the water profile is not altered.

it sounds like a solid plan to me in my own head. can you guys spot any problems with this game plan? based on experience, do you folks think this is sufficient water treatment?

Click to expand...

I don't see the point in buying that filter right now. It seems like you'd be spending money on a solution before you're sure of the problem. Wait until you brew a beer without your hose and with campden to figure out if the hose and chloramine was the problem. Basically, it sounds like you just changed a couple things with your water but are contemplating buying more gear before you know how it affected these latest beers. Maybe the filter is unnecessary. If the campden works, then you have a much cheaper solution than buying your filter.

As for sending something for water analysis, wait until you settle on a system -- whether its a filter or campden or whatever. Send them the water exactly as you brew with it...and then you'll know what kind of water you're brewing with.

The OP's process seems sound. I'd say the water was the culprit, or at least the most likely place to look. I suggest getting spring water from store (you can get really cheap water in 2.5 gallon jugs at the big stores) and see what it does.

Ditch the hose. I use mine, usually, but I run it for long minutes before use and so far it's been ok that way.

Long-term look for either a white hose, or a filter system to remove the chloramines and whatnot.

As far as your water report, send to Ward Labs and see what they say. I'd send 2-4 times a year if you have seasonal water supply. Some places use mountain water when it's available , and underground aquafirs when they are available. You water could change drastically and any treatment you do during one part of the year is not going to be effective or recommended for another.

Luckily, I get all of my water from a reliable underground source, so I can count on consistency.