Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

BTW, I have a new variable to test. Does anyone have unadultered Rhizopus Oryzae or Aspergillus Oryzae cultures? I was able to obtain a super enzyme heavy fungus I wanted to test those two against. Got the idea from a research article on ResearchGate about ethanol production from cassava waste.

"or bottle at 4 weeks no matter what"

Some of us add more water and wait longer than the traditional method. This produces a drier rice wine.

eigua said:

The OP didn't use glutinous jasmine, just plain jasmine rice (from what I can tell anyway -- it's not exactly clear). I've had great success with Three Ladies Brand broken Thai jasmine rice, also not labeled sweet, sticky, or glutinous and the grains are more translucent than sticky varieties. In fact, I feel the flavor is more interesting than what I got from glutinous rice, though that wasn't glutinous jasmine, just plain small-grain glutinous rice. However, the glutinous rice did convert to more liquid than the broken jasmine overall. On the flip side, jasmine is cheaper. When in doubt, try it. You might discover something you like.

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I have a different brand of Thai broken jasmine rice. Just curious if you have tried other broken rice brands and if there are any differences in the different brands in terms of taste/flavor as a regular rice and for making rice wine? Thank.

9au8 said:

I have a different brand of Thai broken jasmine rice. Just curious if you have tried other broken rice brands and if there are any differences in the different brands in terms of taste/flavor as a regular rice and for making rice wine? Thank.

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So far, the only jasmine rice I've tried is Three Ladies Brand so I can't say. I will say that the jasmine rice wine does taste better IMO than the glutenous rice wine, though the yield is smaller.

I have done 2 batches of the rice wine and had white mold in the 1st batch and black mold in the 2nd batch.

Other than making sure that every equipment used is sterilized and clean, the water used should be either boiled, filtered water or bottled water to avoid mold.

wc1376c said:

I do not know if you were writing to me or not, but I'll respond.

I have used every type of rice and brand an A+ AsianMart has. From sweet short to sweet medium to Thai long grain. The best batch I have had yet is with the Thai long. However, I will stand by you on this for sure, SOAK YOUR RICE. My best batches come from an overnight soak and good second rinsing before I cook.

I'll have to try cutting my yeast addition with the balls in half, see what that does.

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By Thai long, are you referring to Thai jasmine long grain rice or thai long grain sweet rice? Just want to make sure I'm reading correctly.

If memory serves, white mold was the one that *should* be ok though I've never seen it personally in a batch (though I've gotten colored mold before it really took off in a batch I soaked overnight which is why I no longer do that).

The last two batches I've done (Thai Jasmine) were a quick dip in boiling water, immediate removal/strain and dump to cool water (cleaning your rice first before any of this of course), follow up strain then immediately to the rice cooker. I've liked the results personally but ymmv.

9au8 said:

I have done 2 batches of the rice wine and had white mold in the 1st batch and black mold in the 2nd batch.

Other than making sure that every equipment used is sterilized and clean, the water used should be either boiled, filtered water or bottled water to avoid mold.

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Mold cannot be avoided, nor should it. Mold is an integral part of the process of making this rice wine. The "yeast" balls everyone is using to make it actually contain mold on purpose. From Wikipedia:

Jiqu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

"Jiuqu consists of a complex mixture of various molds, yeasts, and bacteria with their associated metabolites, cultured on a starch-rich substrate in a solid state fermentation process. ...The most common organisms found in Jiuqu are the filamentous molds Aspergillus oryzae and Rhizopus oryzae and the amylolytic yeast Saccharomycopsis fibuligera. Amylolytic and proteolytic enzymes are the most abundant metabolites isolated."

The mold is required to produce the amylase that converts the starches in the rice into simple sugars so the yeast can then ferment it into alcohol. Without the mold, there could be no rice wine produced. You'd just end up with solid rice and no alcohol.

Whether someone sees visible mold or not really doesn't matter -- the mold is in there if the starches have converted. The visible part of the mold, the hairy fluff (sometimes with speckles) on the surface, is just the mold going to spore, which it does not always do, hence the fact that some do not ever see the mold. I've read various things about warmer temperatures, higher humidity, and other factors causing the mold to go to spore. Whether or not the mold goes to spore doesn't matter however. I'm not aware of any advantage to keeping the mold from making spores.

After 24 hours at 100F Trichoderma had no visible mold, Rhizopus had VERY established mold, Koji had the most liquid rendered.

Tried first jar of the 2 week experiment batches tonight. Got about 20 oz from a quart. Strong alcohol, very little subtlety. Smelled the rest of the jars, I thought the orange, asian, and taro all had very interesting smells. It seems like 3 of the jars of the 23 are not fermenting (plantain, tapioca, and one of the rices) but have converted sugars. The "horchata" jar with vanilla and a cinammon stick smells AMAZING. 2 weeks till harvest (assuming my 5 gallon batch doesn't stop bubbling before then). The pearled barley smells almost identical to the rice.

One week from harvest, the alternative starches were a "bust." However, the three varieties of sweet potato seem to add good aromatics. I'd advise less than 1/4 total volume to be grated steamed sweet potatoes though. They gunk up movement and trap fermentables at any higher ratio.

1. Plantain too little alcohol, nutty, not great
2. Ube Good aromatics, using the rice formula was too much liquid so it was a little lacto sour
3. Taro taro notes carried through, sour same reason as above
4. Asian white flesh purple skin sweet potato see ube notes, very floral
5. American orange sweet potato least sour of the sweet potatoes, I recommend people trying batches with at least a little sweet potato for the immense flower notes it adds
6. Sweet Het Rice good, stronger alcohol nose
7. Ha Ku Bai Rice My 2nd favorite batch, tasted like sake
8. Han Kuk Mi Rice My favorite batch, tasted like sake with more sweetness than the others. AKA stood up to the excess water the best
9. Pearled Barley Terrible flavor, smelled like rice wine though
10. Ginger Just tasted like ginger, very low alcohol
11. Nagaimo One of the other tasters really liked this one
12. Tapioca pearls The worst of the batches, smelled like vomit
Costco Jasmine rice with the following variables:
13. One with a mexican cinnamon stick (canela) and vanilla beans Too much cinnamon, one stick for 5 gallons would be better (probably torn into pieces)
14. One with 1/4 c vanilla beans One of the taster's favorite, I thought it had too much vanilla
15. One with 1/8 c vanilla beans 1/4 cup guy liked this one as well, and I liked it too, but if you're looking for pure sake this adds different flavor notes
16. Two controls from batch one (3 gallon batches)Controls were very highly praised, even by our local Korean restaurant owner (gave him a sample size he went and got a bigger cup to fill)
17.
18. Two controls from batch two
19.One of the controls was a little more sour than the others, settling should fix that
20. One with no additional yeast added Did not ferment at all, straight sugar water from just ARL addition
21. One incubated 48 hours The other tasters didn't think this was different from the controls, I didn't like it as much
22. One with Happy Panda Yeast Ball Flavor on this one was much worse than ARL to me

Updated with tasting notes in bold.

With the "leftovers" of these batches and a ton of more rice, I made another 4 gallons of cooked starch for myself. It was much more sour than the jars which were kept at lower temperatures. Once I've gotten through (or given it to my distiller friend) this batch I'll be making more with different yeast strains (used a combo of red star champagne and lav1118 for the grand experiment). Then I'll test fruit additions.

I'm also considering buying pumpkins after halloween and using pectin enzyme + ARL to make a wine.

chonas said:

1. Plantain too little alcohol, nutty, not great
2. Ube Good aromatics, using the rice formula was too much liquid so it was a little lacto sour
3. Taro taro notes carried through, sour same reason as above
4. Asian white flesh purple skin sweet potato see ube notes, very floral
5. American orange sweet potato least sour of the sweet potatoes, I recommend people trying batches with at least a little sweet potato for the immense flower notes it adds
6. Sweet Het Rice good, stronger alcohol nose
7. Ha Ku Bai Rice My 2nd favorite batch, tasted like sake
8. Han Kuk Mi Rice My favorite batch, tasted like sake with more sweetness than the others. AKA stood up to the excess water the best
9. Pearled Barley Terrible flavor, smelled like rice wine though
10. Ginger Just tasted like ginger, very low alcohol
11. Nagaimo One of the other tasters really liked this one
12. Tapioca pearls The worst of the batches, smelled like vomit
Costco Jasmine rice with the following variables:
13. One with a mexican cinnamon stick (canela) and vanilla beans Too much cinnamon, one stick for 5 gallons would be better (probably torn into pieces)
14. One with 1/4 c vanilla beans One of the taster's favorite, I thought it had too much vanilla
15. One with 1/8 c vanilla beans 1/4 cup guy liked this one as well, and I liked it too, but if you're looking for pure sake this adds different flavor notes
16. Two controls from batch one (3 gallon batches)Controls were very highly praised, even by our local Korean restaurant owner (gave him a sample size he went and got a bigger cup to fill)
17.
18. Two controls from batch two
19.One of the controls was a little more sour than the others, settling should fix that
20. One with no additional yeast added Did not ferment at all, straight sugar water from just ARL addition
21. One incubated 48 hours The other tasters didn't think this was different from the controls, I didn't like it as much
22. One with Happy Panda Yeast Ball Flavor on this one was much worse than ARL to me

Updated with tasting notes in bold.

With the "leftovers" of these batches and a ton of more rice, I made another 4 gallons of cooked starch for myself. It was much more sour than the jars which were kept at lower temperatures. Once I've gotten through (or given it to my distiller friend) this batch I'll be making more with different yeast strains (used a combo of red star champagne and lav1118 for the grand experiment). Then I'll test fruit additions.

I'm also considering buying pumpkins after halloween and using pectin enzyme + ARL to make a wine.

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Wow! 7, 8 and 14, 15 and 16 sound like winners. The pumpkin idea sounds intriguing too. Thanks for sharing this.

chonas said:

22. One with Happy Panda Yeast Ball Flavor on this one was much worse than ARL to me

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This is a very interesting result to me. So can you describe what is off about the flavor of the one made with Panda balls? (Okay, that doesn't sound right.)

Where do you buy your ARL? (Angel Rice Leaven for anyone else wondering.) I've only found it on Ebay. Shipped from China seems to be the cheapest option. Do you know how ARL compares to pure amylase enzyme (equal amounts) in terms of starch conversion? ARL seems significantly more expensive than amylase enzyme, but I suppose it should have much higher potential for starch conversion considering it's alive and grows throughout the medium.

eigua said:

So can you describe what is off about the flavor of the one made with Panda balls? (Okay, that doesn't sound right.)

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This forum doesn't often amuse me this much.

Next set of tests go in tomorrow.
Amylase + LV1116
Beano + LV1116
Amylase + koji + Lv1116
Amylase + Rhizopus + LV1116
Koji + Lv1116
Rhizopus + LV1116
Mucor (RYR)+ LV1116
Trichoderma + LV1116
A mix of the molds excluding mucor (due to hangover complaints) + LV1116

I can get 5 10 gram bags of arl for 1.99 or something at my local Chinese grocer. As well as RYR.

Yeast ball had more sourness, less flower, and high alcohol maybe.If you're distilling or using a lower finishing yeast and less water it may be better.

Amylase should yield 95% conversion if proper amounts are used, the mold is finnicky, that's why sake is made with step additions rather than all at once. With 1Q samples, this shouldn't be a problem. I've heard that Amylase and beano strip flavor, but when used with a mold addition you get the same flavor in less than half the time.

Any one thought of this yeast for this wine(wlp099)? Apparently it works only with step additions of sugar which this wine does naturally, and goes up to a crazy 25% with favorable esters. Seems like a great fit?

Also going to test qa23, vh cl23, vh sn9, and wlp 740 these all yield 15%+ with supposedly low fusel production

Keep up the good work Chonas!

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There is quite a lot of headspace in these jars.

Is that necessary?

dallasdb said:

There is quite a lot of headspace in these jars.
Is that necessary?

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Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. Sometimes when it liquefies, the rice will float up and require basically double the space. I had some jars without enough head space and the liquid overflowed when the rice started to rise up too high. The only time I made it in a very wide jar like that, it didn't really float up very much at all. That batch was pretty dry though. Both jars look like they have more than enough head space.

dallasdb said:

There is quite a lot of headspace in these jars.

Is that necessary?

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I've never had it not compact from volume when pitching rice and yeast balls. I squish it down some, but there is a little air space in each batch. It always liquefies and loses volume for me. Current batch started at 5 gallons volume and after 5 weeks is at 4.25 gallons now.

Is there a problem with headspace? My first attempt at rice wine should be done in another week and a half. I have that much headspace too.

Haven't heard from my brewing partner who was holding my experiment jars. I think I'll probably stick with ARL, Koji, and/or Rhizopus with a sprinkling of amylase. Does anyone have any of the following yeasts they're willing to ship a scientist?

Vintner's Harvest CL23
Vintner's Harvest Sn9
White Labs 740
Safoeno CK S102
White Labs WLP099
Redstar Montrachet
Wyeast 4632
White Labs 705
White Labs 709
White Labs 1028
Lalvin QA23
White Labs 707
White Labs 735
BC103
UCLM S325
Wyeast 4242
Wyeast 4783
Wyeast 4134
Safale 04
Nottingham Cider
UCLM S325
BC S103

Sorry to say, but I do not have any of those yeasts I could ship off.

But as an analytical scientist, I've done a quick analysis of a my last two batches to see what was in there. I determined that one batch was at 18% ABV and the other was 14% and that both have a good amount of residual sugar, though I have not had the time to identify or quantitate. If timing allows, I'll probably concentrate the samples (by evaporation) to see what the minor components are.

I collected my first batch of rice wine about an hour ago. This stuff is pretty tasty; reminds me of mead to an extent! I like it as-is so I'm unsure about adding flavoring but I'm sure I'll try that anyway... There will be more batches of this produced for sure!

Thanks for all of the helpful info in this thread.

Question...What types of flavors do you experience if you cold crash after 2 weeks to stop the fermentation?

I would like a wine that is sweet and heavy in rice flavor, and say around 10% ABV give or take.

gwapogorilla said:

Question...What types of flavors do you experience if you cold crash after 2 weeks to stop the fermentation?

I would like a wine that is sweet and heavy in rice flavor, and say around 10% ABV give or take.

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Haven't tried, since the end-product remains quite sweet.
Another option would be to finish fermentation and dilute.
Doubt a cold crash would stop fermentation, only slow it. Better would be to pasteurize it per the thread in the cider forum.

Hey guys! Greetings from India.

After lurking here for quite a bit and 2 failed attempts at rice wine making(because I Didn't used the right type of yeast), I finally ordered some angel rice leaven from aliexpress.com

It arrived yesterday. I quickly prepared 2 batches: The batch 1 was 1.5cup rice(300grams) and batch 2 was 1cup(200grams).

The rice I used was 'short grain aromatic' rice of bengal. This rice is not easily found in my area and I doubt if i will get hold of it again. Commonly available rice is long grain rice or basmati rice.

The batch 1 was steamed. Put the rinsed rice(no soak) on a metal utensil with holes at bottom. Put on a lid and the steaming went on for almost 1 hour 10minutes. The cooked rice were chewy and sticking together. After cooking, I washed the rice with cold water and put it for cooling.

Batch 2, was cooked over stove in a small pot. I used almost 310 grams of water for 200 grams of rice. It's 1:1.5 ratio. I've read the recommended ratio is 1:1.25 but I don't think the rice could have been cooked in that amount of water. rinsed with cold water, allowed to cool and put it in a clear jar.

The ceramic jar holds steamed rice.

I will open and check on the ceramic jar only at 21 days. The smaller jar being glass will keep me updated till then.

I will keep you updated.

What type of yeast did you add?

Darthbrewder said:

What type of yeast did you add?

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In this batch, I have just used angel rice leaven. I read on this thread that just ARL is enough for 2 stage fermentation. In steamed batch, I used about 2 grams and about 1.5 grams in the other batch.

As for the previous batches, in my first batch, I just used bakers yeast. I was not aware of the process. In the second batch, I used bakers yeast along with some crushed ginger root. I read somewhere that ginger root converts starch to sugars. It did work and gave an alcohol smell but that was it. Non drinkable. I tasted some with a finger, might just be 1-2 drops, it gave me stomach infection. Took care of all the hygiene and everything but it still did.

sarthak said:

In this batch, I have just used angel rice leaven. I read on this thread that just ARL is enough for 2 stage fermentation. In steamed batch, I used about 2 grams and about 1.5 grams in the other.

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Correct, if you don't have yeast balls, ARL is the only ingredient you need to make a batch of rice wine. It will be different than the rice wine you get with yeast balls. The yeast balls provide a better starch conversion and have a higher alcohol tolerance.

I've done many successful batches of rice wine using just rice and ARL and they taste great. The big difference is the rice. I have tried and failed many times with long grain rice. In my opinion, the most successful rice for rice wine is Thai Jasmine.

Good luck and keep us posted in 21 days.

I could be wrong but I'm sure that I read on the arl package that there is no yeast, only rice flour and rizopus oryzae.
If you you are getting any type of fermentation using only arl and rice then it is probably from wild yeast.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480224221.573384.jpg

Darthbrewder said:

I could be wrong but I'm sure that I read on the arl package that there is no yeast, only rice flour and rizopus oryzae.
If you you are getting any type of fermentation using only arl and rice then it is probably from wild yeast.View attachment 378427

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Maybe, but if you check around page 260-270; you find people using just arl to make wine. Maybe it's from wild yeast but it makes the end product. In fact, many people use ARL for consistency throughout many batches.

Day number 2. It's been 48 hours. There is liquid visible in the glass bottle. The rice itself is very squishy. I think in 5 more days, liquid will begin to collect at bottom.

Used this exact recipe, with yeast balls from ebay. Good but a bit "alcoholy" I am sure there is a better word, but you know what I mean. Has anyone tried flavoring this? Any success stories? This is easy and fun to watch on my kitchen counter, but I would love to explore other flavors if that isn't against some sacred rice wine rules.

sarthak said:

Maybe, but if you check around page 260-270; you find people using just arl to make wine. Maybe it's from wild yeast but it makes the end product. In fact, many people use ARL for consistency throughout many batches.

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I'm just making sure that this doesn't get confused. Having factual information instead of hearsay is always better, especially when experimenting. Knowing that the arl itself doesn't contain any sort of yeast is a good thing. I'm not against using it, or saying that you can't have good results using arl. Telling someone that all you need is cooked rice, arl, and time in a jar, will produce rice liquor is a falsehood. It's like trying to get cooked rice to ferment with just yeast and no enzymes.

mammachick said:

Used this exact recipe, with yeast balls from ebay. Good but a bit "alcoholy" I am sure there is a better word, but you know what I mean. Has anyone tried flavoring this? Any success stories? This is easy and fun to watch on my kitchen counter, but I would love to explore other flavors if that isn't against some sacred rice wine rules.

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Flavorings used in this thread so far:
Mango, Osmanthus Flowers, pineapple, pineapple/coconut, apple, vanilla, cinnamon.

Flavorings I'm interested in trying after I get my yeast strains tested:
cardamom, anise, shiso, bay leaf, lemongrass, peppercorns, orange blossom, raisins, allspice, mint, cucumber, banana, peach, rose water.

(all are common accompaniments of rice dishes).

Previous experiments say that pineapple, vanilla, and cinnamon can be added in active fermentation, but mango and coconut are better added to the finished wine.

Darthbrewder said:

I'm just making sure that this doesn't get confused. Having factual information instead of hearsay is always better, especially when experimenting. Knowing that the arl itself doesn't contain any sort of yeast is a good thing. I'm not against using it, or saying that you can't have good results using arl. Telling someone that all you need is cooked rice, arl, and time in a jar, will produce rice liquor is a falsehood. It's like trying to get cooked rice to ferment with just yeast and no enzymes.

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No hearsay from my end. I have made rice wine using Rice and Angel Rice Leaven. Factual information.

I cooked the rice, cooled it down, mixed it with ARL in a glass container, waited 3 weeks and...had a batch of good and tasty rice wine.

Yes, there have been plenty of experiments. But, rice and ARL make rice wine. Have you tried this?

I have used arl once to convert starch in rice to sugar. Cooked rice, cooled, inoculated with arl, placed in my usual jar and waited a week. It didn't produce alcohol, but a very sweet rice pudding. I'm sure if I waited it might actually spontaneously ferment. I did add bread yeast to it on the 8th day and within a few hours had active fermentation.

My point is, on the arl package, it clearly states that the package does not contain yeast. Not saying you can't make wine with it or that it won't.
The point I'm trying to make is, the package says it doesn't have yeast. If it did then it would be marketed for for making something alcoholic, not rice pudding.

Darthbrewder said:

I have used arl once to convert starch in rice to sugar. Cooked rice, cooled, inoculated with arl, placed in my usual jar and waited a week. It didn't produce alcohol, but a very sweet rice pudding. I'm sure if I waited it might actually spontaneously ferment. I did add bread yeast to it on the 8th day and within a few hours had active fermentation.

My point is, on the arl package, it clearly states that the package does not contain yeast. Not saying you can't make wine with it or that it won't.
The point I'm trying to make is, the package says it doesn't have yeast. If it did then it would be marketed for for making something alcoholic, not rice pudding.

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Maybe you are right. I've read about this kind of scenario, where the arl does not perform 2nd stage fernentation, earlier in this thread. But those cases were very less.

Almost every arl batch mentioned here has a white mold on the top of rice pile. They say this is a colony of multiple organisms of which I'm sure yeast must be one. White mold contributes in making alcohol. A black mold means a ruined batch.

So far I'm on day 4 and the rice in glass bottle has just been reduced to a squishy rice pudding of some sorts. There are white mold strands beginning to develop in the top of pile. A lot of liquid is being formed but still not enough to collect at the bottom. I opened and took a whiff of the smell, it is slight tart and slight alcohol. So I know alcohol is being made in there.

Let's see what happens next. I'll keep you updated.