Vendor Processing Time

This is a bit of a rant, but what is it with the time it takes vendors to get orders out the door? Three, four days is not uncommon. Add shipping time and that means you have to order something 1-1/2 to 2 weeks out.

So many other markets routinely get products out within a day or two. Not even talking about the Big Guys (ie Amazon) that ship the same day; not a fair comparison.

I've ordered from Northern Brewer and AHS before but am tired of wondering whether my order is going to take 2,3,4+ days to send out.

Business strategy note for stores that want to gain market share; promise that you'll get orders out within a set time (1 or 2 days) or you'll give a decent discount. Fulfill this by having the support staff available. Increased sales will more than pay for it.

There seems to be industry malaise with order processing time. Maybe as consumers its our fault because we tolerate it.

My $.02.

There are some homebrew stores that ship the same day the order is placed. For example William's Brewing.

kevreh said:

This is a bit of a rant, but what is it with the time it takes vendors to get orders out the door? Three, four days is not uncommon. Add shipping time and that means you have to order something 1-1/2 to 2 weeks out.

So many other markets routinely get products out within a day or two. Not even talking about the Big Guys (ie Amazon) that ship the same day; not a fair comparison.

I've ordered from Northern Brewer and AHS before but am tired of wondering whether my order is going to take 2,3,4+ days to send out.

Business strategy note for stores that want to gain market share; promise that you'll get orders out within a set time (1 or 2 days) or you'll give a decent discount. Fulfill this by having the support staff available. Increased sales will more than pay for it.

There seems to be industry malaise with order processing time. Maybe as consumers its our fault because we tolerate it.

My $.02.

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You must be a young-un'....Consider what mail-order was 20-30 years ago, 3-4 weeks was probably the average. The only reason 3-4 DAYS seems unreasonable to you is that Amazon has streamlined their shipping system so that it is stupid fast, and accounts for a good percentage of the market share for retail items.

Also, take into account that homebrew shops just don't pick and ship goods....there is typically processing in there is as well (grinding grains, bagging up into smaller quantities from bulk, etc.). Its quite a bit different than a robot going to pull a book from a pile and throwing it into a box.

Want instant gratification? Try a LHBS.

I have ordered from both NB and AHS, and have never had to wait more than a day or two to get tracking and that includes ordering over the weekend.

I am very happy with both shipping departments.

broadbill said:

You must be a young-un'....Consider what mail-order was 20-30 years ago, 3-4 weeks was probably the average. The only reason 3-4 DAYS seems unreasonable to you is that Amazon has streamlined their shipping system so that it is stupid fast, and accounts for a good percentage of the market share for retail items.

Also, take into account that homebrew shops just don't pick and ship goods....there is typically processing in there is as well (grinding grains, bagging up into smaller quantities from bulk, etc.). Its quite a bit different than a robot going to pull a book from a pile and throwing it into a box.

Want instant gratification? Try a LHBS.

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Nope, don't consider myself a young-un (still listen to the 80's channel on xm to reminisce )
Yeah, and 20-30 years ago we had 300 baud modems, which I'm sure you would find intolerable by todays standards So "20-30 years ago" has no bearing on today.

I made it a point of NOT comparing an internet homebrew store to Amazon because their not comparable.

Your right on the LHBS, comparing prices and factoring shipping its pretty much a wash. Obviously easier to order from my desk, but maybe I'll start getting supplies for two batches at a time.

You are ordering from the wrong places....

Midwest, AHS, NB, and especially morebeer take forever.


Farmhouse brewing supply and Graintoglass both have extremely fast turnaround and good pricing.

AHS used to ship quickly. Lately, they have gotten very slow (4-5 days to process an order, plus ship time).

However, I made a small order with them on Friday (oxygenation kit and a pack of campden tablets), and it was at my house yesterday. I got my ship notification on Monday, so this time, the turnaround was great.

i usually order my stuff form AHS, and it does seem that if you are getting grains it takes longer than if you aren't getting grains.. but i do love their feature of mixing the grains for each of my recipes for me.. i typically order 3 batches at a time

homebrewdad said:

AHS used to ship quickly. Lately, they have gotten very slow (4-5 days to process an order, plus ship time).

However, I made a small order with them on Friday (oxygenation kit and a pack of campden tablets), and it was at my house yesterday. I got my ship notification on Monday, so this time, the turnaround was great.

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I have also noticed the recent slowdown. For the first two years of homebrewing I could order on Monday or Tuesday and be sure I'd get my goods before the weekend. Now it's kinda a crap shoot. My last order shipped very quick though. Maybe they just get swamped sometimes.

These processing & shipping times are increasing for a simple reason. 1M home brewers & counting. & that's just North America. Not surprising ordering & receiving in 2-3 days doesn't happen much anymore. They're basically getting log jammed everyday by folks from all over the place at once. No man being an island,you're gunna wait longer. On my last order,midwest was propcessing over the weekend+,due to inventory taking. Then they sent me the regular bench capper instead of the Super Agata I ordered,a difference of $6.
I talked in their chat window to a sevice tech,& he's sending me the right one with a return label for the one they sent originally.
So they still have great customer service.

Not that long ago I had a pretty bad wait time from Northern Brewer. They took about a week before it was even shipped. Then it took another week to arrive.

Recently placed another order with them and it was shipped within 36 hours, which I consider reasonable.

Nothing can be done about the carrier. If you want cheap shipping, it takes as long as it takes based on your distance from the shipper.

However, my normal go-to is Williams. They ship the same day as long as you get your order in by something like 3pm PST. And because I live on the west coast, standard shipping costs happen to get the product to me over night, every time. I know that if I place an order on Thursday, it will be here by Friday and I can brew on Sunday. Their prices are in line with the market and I have never had a problem with them.

unionrdr said:

These processing & shipping times are increasing for a simple reason. 1M home brewers & counting. & that's just North America. Not surprising ordering & receiving in 2-3 days doesn't happen much anymore. They're basically getting log jammed everyday by folks from all over the place at once. No man being an island,you're gunna wait longer. On my last order,midwest was propcessing over the weekend+,due to inventory taking. Then they sent me the regular bench capper instead of the Super Agata I ordered,a difference of $6.
I talked in their chat window to a sevice tech,& he's sending me the right one with a return label for the one they sent originally.
So they still have great customer service.

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I follow this, to a point. Thing is, if business is getting that much better, you need to hire staff to keep up with it.

broadbill said:

You must be a young-un'....Consider what mail-order was 20-30 years ago, 3-4 weeks was probably the average. The only reason 3-4 DAYS seems unreasonable to you is that Amazon has streamlined their shipping system so that it is stupid fast, and accounts for a good percentage of the market share for retail items.

Also, take into account that homebrew shops just don't pick and ship goods....there is typically processing in there is as well (grinding grains, bagging up into smaller quantities from bulk, etc.). Its quite a bit different than a robot going to pull a book from a pile and throwing it into a box.

Want instant gratification? Try a LHBS.

Click to expand...

I remember anything ordered from a publication (magazine or comic book) had in print "6-8 weeks for delivery"! This was mid to late 70's though. I am happy with anything 7-10 days and ecstatic at anything under a week!

Youngsters... jeez!! Lol

I'll throw on the pile.

I've noticed that almost all of the online vendors are taking longer to procure and ship. Ordering ahead of time is one thing, but I worry about how long my yeast is sitting around losing viability.

At this point, I order as far in advance as I can and pick up my yeast at my LHBS - just to be safe.

Hopefully it's just growing pains and the service will come back online soon.

I have found William's Brewing and Rebel Brewing to be super fast on fulfillment and shipping. That has definitely made them my go-to online vendors.

homebrewdad said:

I follow this, to a point. Thing is, if business is getting that much better, you need to hire staff to keep up with it.

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Yep, and that was my point, if anyone wanted to set themselves apart they could offer faster, more consistent turn around times.

Someone, eventually, will setup a Zappos model.... warehouse and supplies near each coast and the midwest (=fast shipping), super fast turnaround, impeccable customer service.

homebrewdad said:

I follow this, to a point. Thing is, if business is getting that much better, you need to hire staff to keep up with it.

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kevreh said:

Yep, and that was my point, if anyone wanted to set themselves apart they could offer faster, more consistent turn around times.

Someone, eventually, will setup a Zappos model.... warehouse and supplies near each coast and the midwest (=fast shipping), super fast turnaround, impeccable customer service.

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You guys also have to realise that they're running a business,not a charitable orginization. they have to pay a minimum wage at least,& if the person works at least 40 hours,they have to pay benifits. Buy stock,etc & still turn a profit. It's not as easy as it sounds to juggle those & a whole lot more I haven't even mentioned. They had fast turn around times till more home brewers came online. But being the major sites for supplies,they get hit the most. Unlike the little places you guys mention from on here that most outside of HBT don't know & never heard of. That's why they're faster atm because they don't have truckloads of customers every hour jamming them up. Think about it. Money is NOT unlimited to hire scads of help.

Lowest price , best quality or best service? You can only pick 2!

catdaddy66 said:

I remember anything ordered from a publication (magazine or comic book) had in print "6-8 weeks for delivery"! This was mid to late 70's though. I am happy with anything 7-10 days and ecstatic at anything under a week!

Youngsters... jeez!! Lol

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I'm over 40 I guess that is why I agree!! I'm ordering stuff from across the country and when I get a ground delivered package in 5-7 days I'm ecstatic!

unionrdr said:

You guys also have to realise that they're running a business,not a charitable orginization. they have to pay a minimum wage at least,& if the person works at least 40 hours,they have to pay benifits. Buy stock,etc & still turn a profit. It's not as easy as it sounds to juggle those & a whole lot more I haven't even mentioned. They had fast turn around times till more home brewers came online. But being the major sites for supplies,they get hit the most. Unlike the little places you guys mention from on here that most outside of HBT don't know & never heard of. That's why they're faster atm because they don't have truckloads of customers every hour jamming them up. Think about it. Money is NOT unlimited to hire scads of help.

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You and I agree on a lot, but not on this. I get growing pains, but if a company truly has truckloads of customers jamming them up they can hire the help to handle the load.

Also, nothing says you have to pay benefits. You can hire part time people to pack boxes.

I have no idea what the actual situation is, so I won't pretend to speak for these businesses. What I do know is that there are plenty of mail order merchants with massive ordering demands that can turn things around quickly. These guys have gotten slow/spotty of late, and I hope it improves.

homebrewdad said:

Also, nothing says you have to pay benefits. You can hire part time people to pack boxes.

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Yup! That's the way to increase customer service. Low pay - no benefits.

homebrewdad said:

You and I agree on a lot, but not on this. I get growing pains, but if a company truly has truckloads of customers jamming them up they can hire the help to handle the load.

Also, nothing says you have to pay benefits. You can hire part time people to pack boxes.

I have no idea what the actual situation is, so I won't pretend to speak for these businesses. What I do know is that there are plenty of mail order merchants with massive ordering demands that can turn things around quickly. These guys have gotten slow/spotty of late, and I hope it improves.

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Federal law says they have to pay benifits if they work full time. I know my sons complained about this stuff the last 15 years. Part time would work,but how many can they afford vs how much do they really have available to pay?
Not to mention owners/investors input. I hope things pick up too,but not at my expense. If they have to pay more people,they sure as hell ain't takin the hit...

I really don't think it's too much to ask to have something that you paid for in the mail within 24 hours.

edit: obviously with weekend exceptions

Bumbler said:

Yup! That's the way to increase customer service. Low pay - no benefits.

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As opposed to taking a week - or longer - to pack an order? I'm not saying that's the answer, but it could be part of it.

The "back in my day" comments amuse me. Sure, it took weeks to get a mail ordered item a couple of decades ago. A couple of decades ago, homebrewing wasn't the accessible hobby that it is now, either. For that matter, the Internet didn't exist like it does now; homebrewtalk couldn't have even been possible.

Things change, and sometimes, for the better. It's not unreasonable to expect good, fast service at reasonable prices... especially when the vendors in question have managed such things up until recently.

The company I work at is experiencing major growing pains, as well. We've learned that some of our tried and true processes are simply not scalable, so we have to develop more efficient ways to accomplish the same tasks we've always done. Ownership is certainly not telling our clients "sorry, we've gotten too much business to be able to meet the same three day turnaround we've always promised".

Grow and adapt, or watch your business walk to someone who will.

unionrdr said:

Federal law says they have to pay benifits if they work full time.

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I'm aware of this, which is why I suggested part timers. Not saying this is "the" answer, just throwing out ways to help bump up capacity.

I make 2 batches a month. I plan a month ahead of time and buy 2 kits at a time from Morebeer. Im always stitting on something to brew. I also use my LHBS for yeast and little odds and ends

Cali to NYC takes less than 2 weeks from Morebeer with the free shipping, im fine with that.

homebrewdad said:

Grow and adapt, or watch your business walk to someone who will.

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Agreed. If you can't fill a need, there's someone else who will.

I am in no way, shape or form saying that subpar customer service is "ok". It will definitely drive business to more capable competitors. I have my pet peeves about about service I receive (rudeness, poor knowledge by staff, etc) but waiting a reasonable time isn't one of them.

Reasonable is very subjective and varies among individuals. What I find acceptable others do not, and vice versa. I am a patient person by nature and refuse to let something that's out of my control ruin my mood/day. It's not worth it to me, but I have other buttons that if pushed will set me off! I pick and choose my battles to keep frustration low.

homebrewdad said:

I'm aware of this, which is why I suggested part timers. Not saying this is "the" answer, just throwing out ways to help bump up capacity.

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Your right, a lot of small and medium sized business geared towards customers service use part timers. Nothing wrong with it and its a good way to bring new hires into an organization.

You can meet varying demands with additional help and most importantly Quality Control (which is always an employee) to make sure there are minimized errors. Many (most?) places have the QC person initialize invoices that are in the box.

Brew hardware is in the same boat. Exclusive items and good prices has us overwelmed. We are systematically offloading tasks to staff but its hard to train people new when you are already sleeping 4 hours a night and all that jazz.

unionrdr said:

Federal law says they have to pay benifits if they work full time. I know my sons complained about this stuff the last 15 years. Part time would work,but how many can they afford vs how much do they really have available to pay?
Not to mention owners/investors input. I hope things pick up too,but not at my expense. If they have to pay more people,they sure as hell ain't takin the hit...

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homebrewdad said:

I'm aware of this, which is why I suggested part timers. Not saying this is "the" answer, just throwing out ways to help bump up capacity.

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Point of clarification: There is no federal mandate that employers provide benefits to full time employees. Most employers do provide benefits to full time employees but only as a recruiting tool - they are not required to do so by law.

Even the recently passed and much feared Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) does not require employers to provide benefits to full time employees. It does fine employers who do not provide benefits, but only if they have more than 50 full time equivalent employees.

I think we can all agree that managing a growing business is difficult. Too much business has ruined as many companies as too little business.

I think the salient point here is that you need to manage growth properly if you want to survive long term.

Part of the art of business management is knowing what your triggers and bottlenecks are so that you can have systems and processes in place to manage around them.

The increase in volume will benefit the online HBS for a time. But the increase will not last if they drive customers off with poor service.

We all gladly accept 2-3 week shipping times when we order items from China because we are saving a but-load on the cost. You can't charge market prices and provide sub-market service.

Shipping from online retailers is expensive (again). If an online HBS guaranteed 24hr processing and 3 day shipping - I would do most of my buying from that HBS. Conversely, if an online retailer re-instituted $6.95 flat rate shipping, I would do most of my buying from that HBS (even if it took two weeks to get my order).

Bottom line: service the crap out of your customers or pay them not to care.

Do. Or do not. There is no try.

I started buying local, even though its a 20 minute drive. No biggie and I don't have to wonder if my order will go out in 2 days or a week.

I enjoy shopping from NB and AHS, but will only do so if my brew session is two weeks away.

I've also noticed the processing delay increasing.
I've moved to ordering 2 sets of ingredients at a time and then sourcing my yeast locally.

I'm also not buying the "back in the day" argument.
That day is gone. Evolve or die.

Just this past Tuesday afternoon, I submitted a...for me...sizeable order with NB [four partial mash or all grain "kits" plus ingredients for a fifth brew]. I received an email message EARLY Thursday morning that the entire order had been shipped and it would be delivered on Friday courtesy of Big Brown. The "turn-around" time from receipt of the order to shipped out the door was less than 36 hours. And the packages WERE delivered on Friday. That is quite acceptable, methinks.

glenn514

Yep, not bad. If only there was consistency in turn around time. I've seen quite a variance in time with a given vendor, with the reason/excuse always "we're just trying to catch up to all the orders".

I work in a hbs and do most of the internet orders that come in. If it comes in by 3pm, I do my very best to get it out by 4 the same day. If we are out of something, an email is sent as soon as it is noticed that we are out of it. I give the customer different options, wait until we receive it (most of the time it is already ordered and awaiting to deliver), substitute for similar item or ship everything that is in stock and notify when is in stock. We really strive for awesome customer service all the time. It can get a little overwhelming at times, but should never have to wait over 24hrs for some sort of communication. The owner of my shop is always checking emails and communicating if there is any issues.

As for the few post that I Have read in this topic, stating you just use your hbs for fresh yeast and small items, if everyone did that, that store would never survive. A local hbs shop needs all the valuable customers it can get to try to keep the lights on and stay open. If they close, then where are you going to get your fresh yeast or that small emergency item that day that its needed?

Just something to think about, support locally.