Brewmation: An amazing turnkey brewery (not a Brew-Magic vs B3, but with comparisons)

Good news. I can gravity feed through the plate chiller!!

halucin8 said:

Here are some pics of my Brewmation. Sorry it took so long, but my computer was dead for a week.

I am busy now working on the best way to incorporate my plate chiller into the system.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

That's a nice looking man cave! The brewmation looks like the centerpiece of the room. Can entertain with homebrew while homebrewing.

I have posted another short video on YouTube of how I chill on my brewmation. Here is the link

Just posted another video, this one demonstrating the fully auto function of the brewmation.

That is a very nice system. I actually like the design of it and it seems pretty well thought out, even if it does remind me of my first job, washing dishes, at a pizza restaurant.

Is it just me or does that control panel look like an in-dash car stereo? I assume it requires 220v service.

It's on my gear-lust list now.

wreals said:

That is a very nice system. I actually like the design of it and it seems pretty well thought out, even if it does remind me of my first job, washing dishes, at a pizza restaurant.

Is it just me or does that control panel look like an in-dash car stereo? I assume it requires 220v service.

It's on my gear-lust list now.

Click to expand...

I'll let you now how my first brew session goes. Memorial Day. T minus....

There's a bunch of info on the thread already for power requirements. 30A 220V Single Phase w/ GFCI is what's required/recommended. The brewmation uses 26 amps.

It reminds me of being a bar tender with the required (in NY at least) triple sink washing regiment for glassware. I bet you could deep fry some mean turkeys in this mofo , fo sho.

Thanks for he info! this looks like a nice setup for pilot brewing. I gotta say, while most posters here seem to be cool, there are also some real @sshats who have to dump on anything and everyone! Don't let them get you down...

Wow. I have a lot to learn. The brewmation worked great. I sucked.

Don't even know if it will ferment. We shall see.

I made a plethora of dumb mistakes and ended up with something I know not what. Was nowhere near my target gravity because I screwed up the mash. Didn't realize the shutoff valve to the recirc pump was closed for about 8 minutes at the start of the mash, so my mash got up to 180, at least on the bottom. I put in colder water as soon as I noticed to get the temp down. The mash tun probe works best about 4 inches down from the top of the mash lid, but not when you screw it up like this. I was watching a happy 156 degree mash until I actually started recircing and it shot up to about 180. I actually did get a boil over in the BK because I was so eager to 'crank it up to 11' and blinked with 15 gal and about 2 inches from the top of the kettle. Well, I can say the GFCI works great cause it tripped. Total operator error. The brewhouse did well. I sucked. My final gravity was way high so I had to add hot tap water to get it down (didn't even get it down all the way) and so I could let it boil for a 5 min to sterilize. Probably a stupid thing to do, but I'm not sure how to fix disasters like this.

Anyways, probably killed my beer. We'll see. A lot of my setup isn't even ready to go (oxygenation, grain mill, etc.) and I was really just rushing to get something in the fermenter. Probably not the best plan.

I will say that when I tripped the GFCI, then dried off the brewmation, and reset the breaker, my brewmation was right there with a "resume" or "restart" dialog and a "how much time elapsed in the boil" ..to start the timer where you want.

Nice.

Also, I'm happy to report that you if you need to adjust for disasters (like adding more strike water like I did, etc.) you can do so without tripping up the full auto brew session. It doesn't seem the brewmation is a prima donna regarding the auto cycle which is great.

Sooo... there still needs to be a human in the loop. Glad to know George Jetson's brewing automaton hasn't entirely obsoleted the brewer!

180 won't instantly denature all enzymes in your mash, so you are probably OK there. You'll just have to wait till the end of the week and see what kind of attenuation you get. I'll bet it goes just fine.

Adding water to bring down a high OG is something I do all the time. No worries there either.

I knew that was coming (immediately) Yes, the brewmation does require me to turn on appropriate valves to work correctly. It still felt very star trek, though I must admit. Once I do those "well, I'll never do that again" things... I'll get it right.

I don't know if I even pitched right. So, we'll see. I know my oxygenation is inadequate. I'm just shooting it down the bev dip tube for now until my in line stone cap is made. I left quite a bit of trub/yeast in my 3 gal corny that I didn't pitch, so it's definitely under pitched. I think I may have forgotten to shake it up real good with the inch of starter beer. Can't remember.... But it's definitely an inch of yeast that I left I'm seeing this morning.

I guess I really felt the pressure to get a batch done while my rig really isn't completely done and is fairly complex, especially for a noobz. Cain't wait till I can show it off. Tried taking some vids yesterday and I just had to put it down....

SankePankey said:

I knew that was coming (immediately) Yes, the brewmation does require me to turn on appropriate valves to work correctly. It still felt very star trek, though I must admit. Once I do those "well, I'll never do that again" things... I'll get it right.

I don't know if I even pitched right. So, we'll see. I know my oxygenation is inadequate. I'm just shooting it down the bev dip tube for now until my in line stone cap is made. I left quite a bit of trub/yeast in my 3 gal corny that I didn't pitch, so it's definitely under pitched. I think I may have forgotten to shake it up real good with the inch of starter beer. Can't remember.... But it's definitely an inch of yeast that I left I'm seeing this morning.

I guess I really felt the pressure to get a batch done while my rig really isn't completely done and is fairly complex, especially for a noobz. Cain't wait till I can show it off. Tried taking some vids yesterday and I just had to put it down....

Click to expand...

Sankey, it's a hobby, relax. It's great you jumped in there and got started. You were going to make a bunch of mistakes, just like everyone else here has.

My first all-grain batch got dumped on the grass due to a hopelessly stuck sparge.

Regarding pitching yeast from a flask, I decant all the beer off the top and then add some of the wort to it in order to "swish" the yeast off the bottom. I'm always pumping the wort into a carboy anyway, so it's easy to squirt some into the flask.

I'm going to wait till I see any signs of ferment, and then decide whether to just buy the same recipe and do again. I massacred the boil too, so not sure if I'll get any hop character like Dead Guy Ale.

Also, there is the possibility that my refractometer isn't calibrated. I'll need to get some distilled water and try it out.

Anyhoo, good tip on just putting some new wort into the starter vessel. Now I know what yeast is like. My starter looked/smelled good, I just didn't actually pitch all of the yeast. Pooop!

Let us know how it turns out....how do you vent all the steam ?

I brew w/electric in basement, but if weather is nice, I do the boil on the cooker on the porch (big time saver fo me bec I only use 2KW, which gets to a boil in a longer time)

I brew in front of a window with one of those 2 fan in-the-window fans on 'exhaust'. Totally good enough.

Kevin (who makes them) brews in his basement/man cave with a very small bathroom vent installed above the BK. It's really only the BK that needs venting.

I will surely be posting videos and more commentary once I have all the kinks worked out and have brewed several batches. I had several equipment problems (like my mash element fried mid-brew and needed to be replaced) that Kevin readily fixed quite fast. It's nice that I haven't had to do any of that thru mail since he's an hr away from me and I travel near his house for my job. Fixes have been 24 hrs fast.

I will say that the above beer I questioned (in my newb doubt moment) turned out really verrrry yummy and so did my second batch. I mean, real yummy like I would definitely buy another 6'er of both. My fermenters and chamber are performing incredibly well though, which is even more important than what happens during the brew (as I am now noticing first hand).

I have done several mods to the brewmation that make it more suitable for me and can't wait to share. Did a Jamil-o-chill using the Mash pump - In-line aerator off the BK tri-clamp output.

Cheers.

How do you like the peristaltic pumps? Any specs on them, size brand etc?

That rig is awsome. I would have never thought to just use stainless sinks to brew in but what a great idea. Good to know you are having such success with it.

pickles said:

How do you like the peristaltic pumps? Any specs on them, size brand etc?

Click to expand...

I will definitely go over the pumps on my followup. At work, they are great. I did actually have one break and Kevin got a replacement from the manu. He says its the first he's seen break. Then about a week later one of the other fellows who got one in this group buy had one break in exactly the same way, so we're all guessing a bad run at the manufacturer. I'm relatively confident now in them, but I will revise my review of them as being 100% steel. The articulating arm that holds the rollers is polycarbonate and it broke. My guess is the manu had a bad run casting plastic. Anyhoo, it was (according to Kevin) an easy swap for the new part, so I may decide to get a spare articulating arm from the manu if any doubts persist. (I didn't actually get that fixed pump back, they sent him a brand new one for me, he just checked it for me to see how user serviceable it is, which it is.)

As far as the specs, dunno. They are what they are (speed/flow) to get a perfect sparge. The level of liquid in the mash tun simply does not change with the volume one pump is inputting sparge water from the HLT and the other in tandem sending wort to the BK. And with the sparging lid dispersing evenly out 16 pin holes, pretty near perfect IMO. The sparge is not very fast as it shouldn't be- takes maybe 40 min, dunno haven't timed.

The rig does come with other pumps that are good for what they are. They are bilge/sump pumps. The HLT recirc pump is as fast enough to be like (or above really) good house water PSI and works great with the chiller. The mash recirc pump is the same kind of pump but electrically speed reduced. It's about the right speed for mashing or say whirlpooling, which is what I diverted it to do also (so it would all be push button controllable via the control box). It isn't rated for boiling though, so I have to stir the chiller for about 7 min until it's more around 170 degrees, which the pumps can take. I could upgrade the pump if I want, but I don't have a prob with a little stirring action.

I appreciate the understanding for the amount of time it takes me with a followup review from everyone. Broke my arm last week, so don't think I'll be brewing for a little, just drinking. Damnation Well, at least I have 2 tasty batches to drink!

patrck17 said:

That rig is awsome. I would have never thought to just use stainless sinks to brew in but what a great idea.

Click to expand...

You passed the test. You're not a wanker!

This past weekend I went down and visited the brewmation laboratory. Kevin is a great guy, and his setup is pretty interesting. I am going to steal his setup of basically building the brewmation on top of a counter top, drilling 3 holes in it for drainage. He also has a sink built out of the front, which is a pretty good idea.
Now it is going to become more of an issue of carpentry and trips to the store to wait for a scratch and dent sale on some counter tops.

I will promise to take some pictures of my setup. I wasn't ready to jump in fully, so I have a partial system, which looks fantastic! the drainage looks different that the other pictures, but that is OK, I like how mine looks better.

sicabeer said:

I will promise to take some pictures of my setup. I wasn't ready to jump in fully, so I have a partial system, which looks fantastic! the drainage looks different that the other pictures, but that is OK, I like how mine looks better.

Click to expand...

Any pictures?

I would appreciate hearing from any of you guys who did a group buy on this Brewmation setup. By now, you should have been able to run about 13,000 brew sessions through that automated device

I'm in the market for a system, and although a build sounds very fun, I'm not really in a position to spend the amount of time required to do my own thing.

ocluke said:

I would appreciate hearing from any of you guys who did a group buy on this Brewmation setup. By now, you should have been able to run about 13,000 brew sessions through that automated device

Click to expand...

Yeah, unless you broke your arm. I have a few batches under my belt and am wanting more brew history with it before I post my final review. I would have no problem sharing my experience with you in a personal message until then, but I didn't want to get into any hot piss throwing exchanges because I don't have proper experience. I hope to post more than just pics in the end.

My arm is mending, so I am getting back into business. Besides, I've done drunkted all my beer, so I'm in need! But long story short, despite some technical difficulties in ironing out the kinks, my beers have been very tasty as of batch one, which is what matters.

I think we all have made some cool mods too. I'm still working on some (and even some with Kevin's help, which is very generous of him).

Feel free to PM me.

I am 15 batches in on my Brewmation since receiving it in May. I am enjoying the hell out of it so far.

There have been a few glitches here and there, but I must say that Kevin has always been readily accessible for tips and software changes to suit my brewing style better. I have not lost any beer from a glitch.

I have been getting a pretty consistent brewhouse efficiency of 74-77%. I experimented using the BrewMagic style mash recirc with just the hose laying on top of the grain bed, but went back to the mash lid after two batches. I did a little work on the mash recirc manifold. I used some cpvc to construct a manifold that, I feel, better circulates over the top of the mash. Mash temps stay within +/-1df of setpoint. I had Kevin add a mashout step to my software and the MT can bring the temp from 153 to 168 in around 15 minutes.

I have a cleanup routine down and never even remove either of the vessels.

Here are a few pictures.

I am very happy with the system and Kevin. I find myself brewing much more than with my previous system. I just have to start drinking more!!

Cheers.

halucin8 said:

I am 15 batches in on my Brewmation since receiving it in May. I am enjoying the hell out of it so far.

There have been a few glitches here and there, but I must say that Kevin has always been readily accessible for tips and software changes to suit my brewing style better. I have not lost any beer from a glitch.

.

Click to expand...

What have some of the glitches been?

I've only really had a couple brewery glitches. One was blowing a fuse on one of the BK burners. Kevin researched the cabling and code requirements and discovered that I could run 20A fuses instead of the 18A ones it came with. He mailed out the new fuses immediately. No problem since.

The other was the MT temp probe not being recognized when I first received it. The ground wire got knocked loose during shipment. I like the fact that the brewery does a check of these things and won't allow you to brew if something is disconnected.

Other than those two, everything else has been personal preference stuff like adding the mashout step, speeding up the mash recirculation pump, etc.

Kevin has been truly great with everything. You couldn't ask for better support.

Cheers.

Both me and DrMark had one of our peristaltic pumps break. They were part of the same order that Kevin placed for them during assembly, so obviously a bad run at the factory or whatever, can't blame him. Also, my mash tun element fried. Kevin employs a shop that forms them in conjunction with the false bottom so it is out of his hands for part of the process (which I believe he is now doing himself. I'd say some of his parts suppliers have been the source of most issues.

I will say that if Kevin weren't great to work with and very responsive and willing to take care of you quickly, this would be a no go and I would not recommend. Great communication and follow thru with customers is all you can ask from any vendor, especially for one you would be putting that extra bit of faith in for such a radical system. The full auto capabilities are so nice. Kevin's working on programming a step mash schedule and hop addition alarms for me as we speak. For the automation part, it has been pretty flawless. It has been really well built and functioning.

halucin8 said:

I have a cleanup routine down and never even remove either of the vessels.

Here are a few pictures.

Click to expand...

Those are some hot pics halucin8. I'm gonna have to keep up with the Jones's and post some soon. I like your chiller placement. You gravity feed that thing?

I'd love to know what your cleanup routine is. I haven't gotten it all down yet.

I am thinking about replacing the mash sump pump with a 12v March 809 so I can start the whirlpool right at 212*. It's another $200+ though. I could have bought a Corola at this point-sheesh!.

EDIT: OK. I'll bite: Here are a couple of my mods---
1- 'the assembly'- The hose goes to my whirlpool pump (which is also the mash pump) and the instrument tee before is both a hop-back and an in-line oxygenator (depending on whether I have a cap or my cap/diffusion stone weld on the underneath clamp... still a work in progress)
2- The bazooka screen is to give extra height so I don't get any reduced flow for a whirlpool. Without a whirlpool, the stock config is fine, but with a whirlpool, I got a significant reduced flow with pellet hops.
FYI- Kevin helped me install both of these. Thanks Kevin!

I think this is a neat system. It is a bit spendy if you are the diy type, but there are lots of guys, me included, who are just tired of building things. I generally wind up with the wrong parts about 1/2 the time and have to exchange or get refunds. I still use my diy system, but I appreciate this for what it is. It does remind me of a system called the Beermatic 2000 posted by an Aussie on youtube:

That's where I saw that! I knew it looked familiar.

Would this system be suitable for commercial applications? Seems like a great pilot system for a brewery to test new batches on, one keg at a time, without too much labor investment. You could set it and forget it and just go about your regular brew day.

Any thoughts?

CenturyStanding said:

Would this system be suitable for commercial applications? Seems like a great pilot system for a brewery to test new batches on, one keg at a time, without too much labor investment. You could set it and forget it and just go about your regular brew day.

Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

I believe that is who this system is targeted for, as it is a competitor to the Brew-Magic and B3 systems, which are the most popular systems being used by craft commercial brewers for their test batches.

Well, that and homebrewers who want full automation and do not have the time or resources to build out their own system and controls. Of course, maybe one of the guys who own one might be better suited to answer this question. I've even seen the inventor chime in on Homebrewtalk before. You out there, Kevin?

ocluke said:

I believe that is who this system is targeted for, as it is a competitor to the Brew-Magic and B3 systems, which are the most popular systems being used by craft commercial brewers for their test batches.

Well, that and homebrewers who want full automation and do not have the time or resources to build out their own system and controls. Of course, maybe one of the guys who own one might be better suited to answer this question. I've even seen the inventor chime in on Homebrewtalk before. You out there, Kevin?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean, I'd assume that if you're hand building a brewing system for $5k, you're going to make sure it's solid for commercial use, I just want to be sure, especially because it isn't all stainless.

Also, does anyone know the overall dimensions of the rig? I don't see them on his site anywhere.

E-mails are pending with Kevin, but I'm impatient, so I'm posting it up here as well, haha.

56.5 "L x 26"H x 24"D. The tuns are 21" deep, so the D is + the control box. The BK outlet is 6" above the bottom.

It's commercial applicability is one of the reasons I bought it.
I can see a lot of benefits of this setup for a pico brewpubs vs a propane. Level of automation, repeatability, greater ease of install (vs trying to install a propane system indoors), etc make the system appealing for commercial applications. Also, barring the minor kinks, this system should offer the lowest learning curve to "nailing your process" faster than any other system, but that's IMO.

As far as the all stainless aspect, I have replaced almost everything w/ it's stainless counterpart to the cost of about I would say maybe $300+, which includes considerable triclamp upgrades. Kevin just isn't super snooty about no brass as me. I think he is putting an "all stainless" upgrade option together because of buyers like me.

Basically, if your idea of making "sure it's solid for commercial use" includes having sold 10k units already, then no. I think the benefits re: everything said thus far outweigh paying b3 of sabco much more money. IMO.

Kevin is proud of his rig but chooses to remain neutral re: posting on the forum in response to fodder (good or bad). I can respect that. Not that I'm his spokesman or anything, but we've hung out now enough for me to know that.

I don't know about the Brewmation specifically, but I can't believe how much more enjoyable brewing is on an electric versus propane system. I have my own eHERMS (but looked at the Brewmation very closely) -- and the electric has really made a difference. I mean, I can control the boil level -- from a savage boil to a calm, rolling boil -- but it's also much cheaper (for me, at least) than getting the f$&*$ing bottles of propane and worry about running out propane (and stocking up on spare tanks, etc. etc.)

I'm surprised more folks don't embrace electric structures -- even more surprised that both B3 and Sabco don't offer electric versions of their setups (or upgraded setups with electric-only.)

The only downside was the one time expense of installing a 220V GFI outlet with the proper NEMA receptacle -- but once that was taken care of (and a special circuit that I can turn off after the brew day) it's pretty much good-to-go.

bobbytuck said:

I don't know about the Brewmation specifically, but I can't believe how much more enjoyable brewing is on an electric versus propane system. I have my own eHERMS (but looked at the Brewmation very closely) -- and the electric has really made a difference. I mean, I can control the boil level -- from a savage boil to a calm, rolling boil -- but it's also much cheaper (for me, at least) than getting the f$&*$ing bottles of propane and worry about running out propane (and stocking up on spare tanks, etc. etc.)

I'm surprised more folks don't embrace electric structures -- even more surprised that both B3 and Sabco don't offer electric versions of their setups (or upgraded setups with electric-only.)

The only downside was the one time expense of installing a 220V GFI outlet with the proper NEMA receptacle -- but once that was taken care of (and a special circuit that I can turn off after the brew day) it's pretty much good-to-go.

Click to expand...

Yes this is what I experience with the brewmation. I observe for a possible boil over at the start of a boil (which is prompted by a beeping alarm) at the predetermined heat level I have set at the beginning of the brew session. Adjusting the rheostat + or - shows an almost surgical immediate response to the vigor of the boil. I imagine predicting the heat level (by just recording the number in your brew notes) for a respective pre-boil gravity would become real easy (since higher gravities would make for more boil over potential).

Cheaper, no doubt - less than $5/session depending on your power prices. Not to mention more convenient re: replacing tanks. Also a huge reason I bought. I really chose to limit replace-ables. I even use steam to sanitize so I can cut down on PBW/Starsan usage.

As far as the GFI, I got an in-line GFI on the extension cord for $77, and so the only other expense was getting a 220V single phase plug with a 30 A breaker installed (like $30). Got it off ebay and had it direct mailed to Kevin for install during the assembly of my system. The $100+ for that is why people look for used spa breaker boxes on ebay. Just make sure it's 30A at least for the brewmation (which uses 26 amps max).

As far as more people embracing electric.... Many people that have build awesome propane rigs for themselves (some of which I offered to pay for duplicates) have commented on this forum that if they had to do it all over again they would do an eRig and build indoors (OK, less so on the indoors part, but). I have seen none say, "I wish I hadn't done an eRig, I'm going back to propane". Maybe electric doesn't make sense for 7bbl brewery, but then again a brew-magic is a bit like "honey, I shrunk the brewery" wouldn't you say... sort of a miniature model steam-engine, so to speak?

bobbytuck said:

The only downside was the one time expense of installing a 220V GFI outlet with the proper NEMA receptacle...

Click to expand...

Do any of you who have upgraded from 110 to 220 have a fair estimate of what this takes? It is my biggest deterrent to going all electric. I'm stuck with 110V.

My electrical panel looks like this, if it matters:

Diagram photo
Panel photo

As far as I know, 220V single phase is the same thing as 2 X 110V. So, as long as you have 2 free slots in your panel next to each other, you should be alright.

Am I right folks?

Now 220V 3 phase power is another thing entirely. But the brewmation is single phase.

I just bought a 30A 220V breaker at HD, $15 or so, and popped it in a panel just like yours and I was good to go (Since I got the GFI built into my brewmation-see page 4 of this thread). You can get a GFI breaker instead, but since I don't own where I am, I rent, I just decided to make everything as mobile as possible. It was virtually the same price to get the in line GFI as a GFI breaker box.

We installed a hot tub a couple of years ago. I think it was actually 240v and required a pretty heavy gauge of wire and a special breaker outside. I spent over $500 for that hookup. It was done by professionals and they did a superb job. These days you may be able to get a better deal.

If you know what you're buying you can definitely save money by getting the materials yourself and paying for just labor. My hookup was a basic washer dryer hookup since I BYO'd the GFI. 1hrs work or less.

Just write down the brand of your breaker box before you go to HD. They're all different. Other things you'll need are a box to mount and heavy gauge wire.