First batch post mortem

Post mortem may be a bit premature, but there's not much left I can do to this beer...

I've been lurking and reading for awhile and brewed up my first batch about five weeks ago. I had been reading Papazian's Joy and decided to take a crack at the Avogadro Expeditious Old Ale which entails a couple of Munton's Old Ale kit. All went bascially according to plan until I turned off the heat to the wort and added it to the fermenter. Papazian just calls for me to add cold water to get to five gallons based on about a 2 1/2 gallon wort. In retrospect, I should have figured that simply adding cold tap water - which is not that cold - to hot wort meant that after adding, my temperature was down to about 125. And it stayed...

I had read in Palmer that fast cooling of the wort is essential. Therefore, I was really getting frustrated with the slow cool down because of all the bad things that could happen in the interim. I eventually resorted to adding ice from my freezer but it still took well over an hour - maybe two hours - to get to a point where I could even think about pitching the yeast.

Anyway, two weeks in primary and three weeks in bottles later, I cracked the first bottle today. It is drinkable...kind of. It has a sour taste that reminds of the way a house smells the morning after a big beer bash. It looks good and is carbonated about right for an old ale and the alcohol level is solid. But, it doesn't have much body (malt or hops) and the dominant note is...twangy, I suppose. My stomach and I have a slightly uneasy relationship right now....

The Good Revvy says not to throw any beer away (prematurely) and I'll keep sitting on this for awhile - if there is any hope for a beer resurrection. I learned some from this- my second batch (Oatmeal Stout from Austin Homebrewing) is in secondary now and this time I iced that pot down fast. This tastes and smells outstanding thus far. I have hopes but that is still weeks away from saving me.

Anyway, the difference between reading and doing is pretty large. Any assurances that this first go is not a failure would be welcome.

The necessity of a rapid chill is not universally recognized. Search this forum for "no-chill brewing."

About the worst thing to do when brewing is to panic When you added ice to the beer, you may have introduced contaminants that got a head start on the beer before the yeast could take over. The contamination risk from adding ice is worse than the contamination risk letting it take its time cooling.

However, none of these "off" chemicals can kill you, but they will taste weird, and enough time will reduce the impression of these off flavors, because the yeast are still busy converting chemicals in your beer even now.

It's also possible that simply due to having such a big beer, it may simply not be ready yet. The bigger the beer, the longer it needs to condition to be drinkable.

behrendprof said:

It is drinkable...kind of.

Click to expand...

Then you have done better than I did on my first try. My first one was not drinkable. I learned right from the start that ambient temp isn't the temp of the wort and I fermented too warm. Onto your case though...

bernerbrau is 100% correct in stating that rapid cooling is a far lesser evil than throwing ice in the primary. Your freezer is a lot nastier than you'd probably give it credit for. I've noticed that Palmer and Dave Miller are both a little heavy-handed in their use of the words "essential" and "important." My initial guess is that the twangy will eventually go away and the sour will not but only time will tell. Some people fill plastic containers with water and freeze them. Then just before cooling, they sanitize them and toss the frozen containers in the wort. Never done that myself but it's a thought if you're eager to pitch right away. If that's the worst that happended, you're doing A-OK. Good luck with the next batch.

Hey behrendprof:

Good on Ya! Doing is learning. For every hundred persons that think about trying to make their own beer, only a fraction of a percentage step up and do it.

The value of getting the wort temp. down rapidly is debated back and forth. When I was doing extracts I used a utility sink and ice baths. Stirring the ice bath, and stirring the wort really helped to get the temps. down. One of the mistakes that I see is that new brewers get impatient, and pitch the yeast while the wort is too hot.

You'll be amazed at how much the beer can change with time. I can't help you with the off flavor that you described, but if you're using fresh ingredients, and good sanitation, you should hit the next one out of the park.

Good Luck...

You do realize you are making an "old ale," right? Why do you think they call them OLD ales? Because they are meant to be consumed young? It's like a barleywine, it is a BIG beer and that means it's going to need time to mellow out and condition.

This is a beer you think in terms of MONTHS, not mere weeks.

In other words, it's probably gonna take quite some time for the beer to come into it's own. And what you think is a sour taste is more likely (and often confused by folks) is astringency....and that will take some time to mellow out.

More info can be found here....Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

Lazy Llama came up with a handy dandy chart to determine how long something takes in brewing, whether it's fermentation, carbonation, bottle conditioning....



Just walk away from this beer for awhile...and go brew a hefe or an ipa or a bitter with a quick turnover time. If you're going to brew a big beer, especially something like an Old ale, you have to be patient.

Revvy - hadn't thought of it that way. Papazian implied this was a fast turnaround brew which was one of the reasons I tried it. I do think it will be pretty dense in the ABV column so I'll wait. Wonder why this was positioned as a fast (expeditious) solution - heck, Papazian's recipe called for 1 week primary 2 in bottles, as I recall.

The comment about astringency is a good one. Perhaps I have trouble defining taste terms. My first thought was "bitter" but hops are bitter and this wasn't it. THere is a certain dryness or puckering-ness to this.

To Wen, Hal, & Berner: thanks very much for your comments here. I knew about the problems of commercial ice but figured if I could add house water, ice made from same should be ok.

I think I'll go buy beer and relax.

Revvy said:

You do realize you are making an "old ale," right? Why do you think they call them OLD ales? Because they are meant to be consumed young? It's like a barleywine, it is a BIG beer and that means it's going to need time to mellow out and condition.

This is a beer you think in terms of MONTHS, not mere weeks.

In other words, it's probably gonna take quite some time for the beer to come into it's own. And what you think is a sour taste is more likely (and often confused by folks) is astringency....and that will take some time to mellow out.

More info can be found here....Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

Lazy Llama came up with a handy dandy chart to determine how long something takes in brewing, whether it's fermentation, carbonation, bottle conditioning....

Just walk away from this beer for awhile...and go brew a hefe or an ipa or a bitter with a quick turnover time. If you're going to brew a big beer, especially something like an Old ale, you have to be patient.

Click to expand...

That chart is awesome. If your first beer is drinkable, that is awesome! I fermented my first beer (a hefeweizen) at about 85 degrees. It was quite the banana and ester bomb. You picked a pretty complex style to start with too...Old Ales are not easy.

Learn from mistakes and move on. I have learned something with every batch and every batch gets better than the last.

Eric