Wild yeast what could it be?

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djbradle

djbradle

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Had a 1/2 pint of leftover belgian strong dark wort that didn't go into the fermenter and was placed in a fridge on 12/2/14. Fast forward to my intention yesterday to do a starter for a Belgian yeast and what do I find? A bulging lid and active fermentation.....

I was wondering how this happened at fridge temps, proceeded to mix this mess with about 12 oz of a tripel's leftover wort with some added h2o to reduce the gravity, and this is what I have now. I'm going to produce a cleaner fermentation with dme in the next step after decanting all that hopped beer. Smells kinda mild fruit but very clean. Anyone else have this happen? Could it be a wild lager yeast? The temps since December ranged from high 30's to upper 40's.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428678061.952997.jpg
 
Hmmmm. Had a strong taste of butterscotch in a sample about 24 hours into that 1 liter fermentation. Never tasted that before, whaddya think?

At this point about 3 days into it there's no perceptible aroma that I can pick out. Maybe I have a dud. It's been at around 78-80f.
 
No idea. Sounds interesting. Larger sounds right for the temps but flavours sound very strange. I'd totally brew something with it if it were me. :D 1 Gallon batch perhaps?
 
Butterscotch sounds like diacetyl; various wild and domesticated bugs will kick it out, and brett will clean it up nicely over time (this is why brett and pedio are often pitched together in sours – pedio kicks out diacetyl as well as lactic acid, then the brett cleans it up).

I also don't think you necessarily have a lager yeast; ale yeasts and wild bugs can survive, if not thrive, at fridge temps – otherwise, we'd have a lot of dud fermentations after pitching yeast we got outta the homebrew store's cooler or shipped in a cold pack. Whatever it is, it had four months to chew on that wort, probably an intolerable lag phase if you're trying to ferment, but I imagine just about any brewer's yeast would show some activity in that much time.
 
Thanks for the response guys! I will brew up a gallon or so for sure. On the Brett and Pedio possibility I guess I'll see what comes of this first fermentation and taste after a few more weeks after a good long cold crash. Obviously I have no ability to isolate what will be in the slurry unless I plate it. Maybe there's another way to isolate the sacc?
 
On a side note. How can it be determined if it was or was not a lager yeast other than doing several fermentations? Is obtaining a wild lager yeast not possible in certain places? What makes a wild ale yeast more possible? Or am I missing the point in that wild yeasts are just that, wild and they need to go through many generations until they are lab isolated into a clean ale yeast?
 
So I built up that yeast after decanting the beer ( into a flip top 750ml bottle for a taste test of course) with another 1000mls of 1.036 wort and it's been firing away since 48 hours ago. The first taste was not bad at all from a pipette but with the beer carbed and chilled I'll better be able to evaluate it. I would say just very green tasting with no apparent funkiness I could gather.

I have a simple ag 2 gallon brew prepared for this starter with 3.5 lbs of Belgian pilsner and some acid malt.

How many ibus should I go with? Maybe 15-20? I have Magnum, Hallertau, and Ultra on hand.

Getting ready to cold crash the 750 bottle tonight for about 2 weeks before I taste it.
 
Are you thinking low IBUs so you can better identify the character of the yeast?
 
Should I stick with the 2-3 weeks cold condition before consuming? What would you guys do?
 
Mmmmm. Chardonnay and Mcintosh apples. I can't deny that some of the ingredients played a part but it's hard to tell. I'm glad I bottled this one up and didn't dump it. Running out of free time but I intend to brew up that blonde/Pilsner soon.
 
Brewed up the 2 gallon batch and pitched the yeast at 68F with a 1.057 og today. The 1 liter flask starter has some pellicle type bubbles and had the same flavor and aroma as above. This recipe had 94% Pilsner and 6% acid malt. Ibu's were 29 with magnum for bittering and hallertau for aroma/flavor. Since the test bottle and the step up starter were expressing the yeast flavor enough I decided to up the ibu's. My guess is this yeast is of more than one variety but what do I know? Will report back after terminal gravity.
 
So here are the current numbers for the 2 gallon batch:

Original Brix - 14.02 Original Gravity - 1.057
Current Brix - 5.7 Current Gravity - 1.002

7.1% abv

Taste is simliar to the first test batch but much younger.
 
Poured a 750ml clear fliptop into a large 32 oz glass after the cold condition in the 30'sF.

Whoa....didn't expect this at all. Getting some bubblegum and belgianesque flavors in the taste. Estery with some complex notes that are hard to describe at this colder serving temp. Update after a few more sips and a bit warmer.
 
Getting a flavor profile like a Weihenstephaner Vitus strangely enough. It is very tasty. Not dry really. Carb volumes were 2.5. It has good mouthfeel with moderate carbonation. Bubblegum and banana graininess. Much different from the starter sample. Again it was a simple grain bill fermented at the upper 60's. At this point it would be well worth the effort for a larger batch. Wished I saved the cake from the 2 gallon batch but because I saw the waxy flakes on top starting to form I thought it may not be worth the saving. Well, I have two more 1.5L magnum bottles with plenty of sediment I will step up.
 
So now after warming up I'm getting the same flavors but they're more prominent. Some of that tart apple is coming out stronger now. Very happy with the results and the fact that I caught such yeast is phenomenal.

Tasting kinda like a saison too.
 
What an idiot [emoji17] I should have never chucked that yeast cake. I should have washed it and saved it for a larger batch. I'll be taking the sediment from the magnums and building them up for an 8 gallon batch. This thing taste nothing like Vitus but much more like a Collette from Great Divide. I mean really it has this creamy mouthfeel and tart sweetness.
 
Got 4.5 gallons of this at the end of primary fermentation. Smells great as was the last two batches. It has those mild pellicle bubbles now and I wonder whether to let the fermentation ride it out much longer that usual or just rack and bottle when I like the taste. Maybe something more complex will take shape. It's the same recipe as before. 90 some odd % of belgian Pilsner and the rest is acid malt. What think ye?
 
Colorowdy said:
Let it ride if it is bugs and critters the gravity will drop more.
Click to expand...

Letting it ride since your last reply and I decided to throw a scoop of the sour pellicle into it since the granny smith apple flavor was a little strong. It has a nice pellicle and sourness to it now that I will blend with my other sour beer possibly making a very pleasing lambic.
 
Kinda want a culture now. I have a bunch of sour browns I've been thinking about blending. Glad everything is working out for you.
 
Should I stick with the 2-3 weeks cold condition before consuming? What would you guys do?
 
If bottle conditioned (and even kegged I guess) it is always very helpful to cold condition for at least two weeks to bring the CO2 into solution and drop out proteins that make clarity an issue but some yeasts and increased amounts of proteins will indeed cause chill haze.

I find all my batches,save for this one, benefit from it.

Now here's the weird reason why I'm even stumped wth this sour. Even after cold condition for the 2-3 weeks the beer is super clear but as soon as I pop the cap the bottom sediment layer explodes with carbonation leaving a beer that is about 2.5 volumes with good retained CO2 in the beer. It's the weirdest thing and I've never seen it before with any other yeast. This is not a case of over carbonation since I primes for 3.0 volumes.
 
Perhaps with the addition of the pellicle chunk, you introduced some new bugs (brett?) that are taking down your gravity even further. Sounds to me like fermentation wasn't complete.
 
Ruckusz28 said:
Perhaps with the addition of the pellicle chunk, you introduced some new bugs (brett?) that are taking down your gravity even further. Sounds to me like fermentation wasn't complete.
Click to expand...

See below ( double post through the app)
 
Ruckusz28 said:
Perhaps with the addition of the pellicle chunk, you introduced some new bugs (brett?) that are taking down your gravity even further. Sounds to me like fermentation wasn't complete.
Click to expand...


This was regarding my sour brewed back in March not the one in this thread. That original one was strictly Cuvée Renee dregs....This wild yeast has been through it's second generation and is still in the fermenter.
 
Ah ok. I lost that in context. I too introduced some dregs into a beer back in april. I'm ready to bottle it next week. I'm hoping it comes out well like yours.
 
So I cannot for the life of me get this batch to carbonate. I tried upping the temp for a loooong time ( 2-3 months). I opened all the bottles and added the the cask yeast from Danstar. Nothing. This was set to 3 volumes of CO2. Is there sometimes a sour ale that will not carbonate due to some PH or chemical changes?
 

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