Banjo Burner performance questions

Hi folks - need some of your collective brains to help me out with this. No matter what I do, I can't get a clean blue flame from my Banjo Burner. It sucks propane like crazy - it froze up the outside of the tank the other day in 60F weather and the tank sitting in the sun. Doesn't seem to matter how I set the air shutter, and I'm getting so much soot on the bottom of my keg that it falls down onto the burner.

Any suggestions for what to do? I'm stumped!

My guess is that you have a natural gas orifice installed and this is causing it to burn overly rich. You should be able to purchase a propane orifice for it. Could have been a mistake on the part of the seller. Can you contact them and inquire? This burner is available in both a high pressure and a low pressure model. It's possible that you have a low pressure orifice installed rather than a natural gas orifice as I first mentioned, but the result would be similar.

Close the air valve the whole way. (don't tighten the nut)

Turn down the gas valve the whole way.

Open the tank valve

Crack open the gas valve so you can just hear the gas coming out. Light the burner.

Turn up the gas valve 1/4 turn.

adjust the air valve so you get a nice blue flame. Then you should be able to open up the gas valve a bit. I don't think I ever run mine full open.

Tada.

B

I don't think his problem is due to tripping the OPD or excessive flow valve as he mentioned that it's sucking lots of gas. It's more likely a problem with the orifice.

I found that my hose to orifice was not tight, and I was losing a lot of gas in the wrong direction.

Seems like the general consensus is that something isn't put together correctly. I'll try taking it apart then reassembling the whole shebang, then see how it works. I thought I had the orifice attached tight enough to the hose, but perhaps I didn't. I'll give it a whirl and see what happens. Thanks for all of your input!

If your getting soot then there's too much gas and not enough air in the mix. Since its sucking gas like crazy, I'd guess the problem is on the gas side.

+1 on the wrong/messed up orifice

I'd first go over every fitting and hose with soapy water to make sure that your tank valve connector, regulator, needle valve, and hose orifice fittings are not leaking. then I'd think the orifice is to large, you have a bad fill of gas, or you are trying to give too much fuel for the burner.

My propane tank setup needle valve can only be opened about 1/2 a revolution before the blue cones of the tips lift off of the burner no matter how I change the air shutter.

OLDBREW said:

I'd first go over every fitting and hose with soapy water to make sure that your tank valve connector, regulator, needle valve, and hose orifice fittings are not leaking. then I'd think the orifice is to large, you have a bad fill of gas, or you are trying to give too much fuel for the burner.

My propane tank setup needle valve can only be opened about 1/2 a revolution before the blue cones of the tips lift off of the burner no matter how I change the air shutter.

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Exactly! That drove me nuts. I need some heat, that's why i got the thing to start with. The flame tips were almost touching the BK bottom, yet it would only handle 7 gallons at proper boil. I put my old burner back in until something gets figured out. It has the LP nozzle and regulator and hose from the factory.Sure does burn quiet though...

I sent an e-mail off to Northern Brewer, who I bought the burner from, and asked about my issues, and mentioned that several of you suspected that I have the wrong orifice. I'll post again with their response. If that doesn't work, I'll go directly to the Bayou Classic folks for some help (Bayou Classic website said to contact the vendor that I bought it from first)

Cheers!

Just as an FYI to all who are having issues with their burners. Kladue posted this link in another thread to a chart with orifice sizes for BTU's output. One thing you could do is check the orifice size you have and look at the chart to get an idea where you are at.

http://bacharach-training.com/orifice_chart.htm

I was just using my burner today and remembered something. When the tank gets all iced up the pressure decreases and the flame gets all small and weak. So now I start my boil with one tank (gas turned way up) that ices up and then finish with another tank (gas not so high). Also my air shutter is about 1/2 open. this works well for me. You could try setting your tank in some warm water too instead of switching.

HangLoose said:

I was just using my burner today and remembered something. When the tank gets all iced up the pressure decreases and the flame gets all small and weak. So now I start my boil with one tank (gas turned way up) that ices up and then finish with another tank (gas not so high). Also my air shutter is about 1/2 open. this works well for me. You could try setting your tank in some warm water too instead of switching.

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Placing the tank in a tub of water will help prevent it from icing.

Catt22 said:

Placing the tank in a tub of water will help prevent it from icing.

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If it isn't condensation in the tank, then the burner demand is too high for the tank size. If it is the latter, then think 40 or better yet 100lb tank.

OLDBREW said:

If it isn't condensation in the tank, then the burner demand is too high for the tank size. If it is the latter, then think 40 or better yet 100lb tank.

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It isn't a problem with condensation in the tank at all. There's normally no moisture in the tank, so nothing to freeze. Yes, the demand for this type of burner is high and that is a major contribution to the problem. What is actually happening is that the high demand causes the tank to chill to the point that the vapor pressure of the remaining liquid propane is drastically reduced resulting in a lowered flame level and corresponding lower heat output. The problem occurs most often when the tank is more than 3/4ths empty or so. The low volume of liquid propane chills faster than if the tank had more in it. A larger tank would certainly help to minimize or eliminate the problem, but the cost of the big tank and the thought of hauling the larger tanks to get refills might not be so appealing. The simple and easy solution is to put the tank in a tub of water which will help prevent the liquid propane chilling excessively. Using warm water for this can help when brewing outdoors in cold weather. Even the smaller burners can be susceptible to this phenomenon when run at high output levels when the tank is low and particularly so in cold weather.

I could see someone up north trying to put a tank into a water bath. 10-15 minutes at minus 35*f and the tank is frozen into the bath.


If you want to use the big burners, you need a big tank to handle the demand.

It's like a guy with a 357 magnum python trying to use 22 shorts for bullets

crazy thought... is there something blocking your airflow at the adjustment plate? I've had spiderwebs and stuff in there before. Take a look.

OLDBREW said:

I could see someone up north trying to put a tank into a water bath. 10-15 minutes at minus 35*f and the tank is frozen into the bath.

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IMO anyone who would attempt to brew outdoors at a minus 35F would be crazier than you are.

In the winter I brew indoors in the basement with natural gas either on a 3 keg herms system or 54 or 70qt ice cube coolers. Summertime I brew outdoors using propane with either setup in a detached garage.

I sized the piping in the basement to handle the cubic foot demand, and I use the proper sized propane tank to handle the demand when brewing outdoors a 40# tank isn't that heavy. Better buying the proper size equipment then to dunk a tank into hot water to boost the pressure.
I might just be a little crazy from making my own shine all these years.

Figured out my problem! I was looking around the burner for a serial number - I've been working with the fine folks at Northern Brewer to try and figure this out...in the process, I noticed that the inlet tube had about a 1.5" outer diameter, but less than 1/2" inside diameter just inside the point where the open end of the orifice. I poked at it a bit and it started to crumble- seems that there was a plug of whatever casting medium the manufacturer uses, that had only been opened up when the threaded hole that the orifice screws into was drilled out. I scraped all of the medium out, reassembled the whole thing, and lit the engines. Result - a pretty blue flame that stayed blur as I increased the gas flow. It also seems to be putting out about twice the heat that it was before. Now I just gotta get together the stuff for another batch and really let her rip. I'm psyched that it was so easy to fix. Thanks to all for your input!