Proposed Style Guidelines. Cascadian Dark Ale

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I am from chicago. I like the the northwest is hop country, the midwest is the bread basket, the northeast is the cradle of democracy... It's a huge country. I think the name Cascadian Dark Ale has an awesome sound to it. All of this conflict smells of jealousy or envy. Be proud of it. It is all of your country. I have never even been to the northwest, but it sounds like they are brewing a lot of Cascadian Dark Ale. Makes me want to visit.
 
olllllllo is just saying that IPA's weren't brewed in India.

It was given a name that had some significance and came from practical use, not from some concieted poster standing on the shoulders of giants and naming it something that boosts his ego.

I believe it has been pointed out that the style did NOT originate in the magical kingdom of Cascadia.
 
A little birdie told me (well, and the world through a blog post) that it looks like the style will be accepted, but under the India Style Black Ale name.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
olllllllo is just saying that IPA's weren't brewed in India.

It was given a name that had some significance and came from practical use, not from some concieted poster standing on the shoulders of giants and naming it something that boosts his ego.

I believe it has been pointed out that the style did NOT originate in the magical kingdom of Cascadia.
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It's worth mentioning that India Pale Ales and Russian imperial stouts, two styles whose names you have never complained about to my knowledge, did not originate in India or Russia, and were in fact English.
 
Kilted Brewer said:
A little birdie told me (well, and the world through a blog post) that it looks like the style will be accepted, but under the India Style Black Ale name.
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By the BJCP? I doubt there would be another style revision for a good 2 years and no one person has the authority to include it.
 
Sorry, should have been more clear. The comment that was made was that the Brewer's Association was going to accept the style as an ISBA and would broaden it to include hoppy porters and stouts.
 
Kilted Brewer said:
Sorry, should have been more clear. The comment that was made was that the Brewer's Association was going to accept the style as an ISBA and would broaden it to include hoppy porters and stouts.
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I hope this doesnt create confusion for The International Society for Bayesian Analysis!
 
slowbie said:
It's worth mentioning that India Pale Ales and Russian imperial stouts, two styles whose names you have never complained about to my knowledge, did not originate in India or Russia, and were in fact English.
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My post really wasn't that long, did you read it?

I explained that I like the IPA name because it came from practical use and that people in India didn't brew it.......

Oh, sorry, didn't see your username.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Oh, sorry, didn't see your username.
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Way to be creative and mature.

And I'm sorry that I didn't realize that you have no idea what you're talking about. Do a quick google search for cascadian dark ale. I'll wait.


So, the only results you got were this thread, right? Obviously the OP just made up the name when he started this thread.
 
alexdagrate said:
AHTANUM
AMARILLO
CASCADE
CENTENNIAL
CHINOOK
CRYSTAL
GALENA
HORIZON
LIBERTY
MAGNUM
MT. HOOD
NUGGET
PALISADE
STATUS
SIMCOE
STERLING
TOMAHAWK (COLUMBUS)
ULTRA
VANGUARD
WARRIOR
WILLAMETTE
BRAVO
ZEUS

The only hop-growing regions in North America are all located within the borders of Cascadia: The Willamette Valley of Oregon, the Yakima Valley of Washington, and Treasure Valley of Idaho.

There are locations growing hops outside of Cascadia within North America, but they are very small in acreage.
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Have all of those originated from there? Upon further research I am now aware that more hops originated around there than I had thought. No need to be a ********* because you live in the precious kingdom of Cascadia.
 
ODaniel said:
Have all of those originated from there? Upon further research I am now aware that more hops originated around there than I had thought. No need to be a ********* because you live in the precious kingdom of Cascadia.
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What's the deal with all the hate coming from Kentucky? I used to live there as a kid and always thought fondly of it.

Look, the guy asked if any hops came from the PNW other than Cascade. That like asking if there are any Belgian beers other than Stella Artois.

And by the way, it's the Republic of Cascadia, not a kingdom.
 
alexdagrate said:
What's the deal with all the hate coming from Kentucky? I used to live there as a kid and always thought fondly of it.

Look, the guy asked if any hops came from the PNW other than Cascade. That like asking if there are any Belgian beers other than Stella Artois.

And by the way, it's the Republic of Cascadia, not a kingdom.
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HA!! Never noticed that.

Actually we are not fond of it here, so we hate people who live in the mythical.....republic.:drunk:;)

Look, I am OK with discussion, but the whole "It's our ball so we make the rules" attitude I am sensing here isn't cool.

You all call it what you want to, but don't expect me to.
 
I like the name Cascadian Dark Ale. Has a nice ring to it. There already is a style India Ale. Why not pick something different? Why not honor the Northwest region with a style? I vote for CDA! Do I get a vote?
 
cheezydemon3 said:
the whole "It's our ball so we make the rules" attitude I am sensing here isn't cool.
.
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point well taken. i agree that i cast the first stone.

i can understand how the regionalistic nature of the CDA can irk some. I'll try to be civil and less of a jerk about it when posting on HBT, but I'm still a VERY vocal proponent for this style and this name, but I'll remember to keep it civil in the future.
 
david_42 said:
Classic Examples:... Walking Man Big Black Homo, ...
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Hee hee... I never noiced that before! Never heard of it, but it's a damn funny name! :p

edit: So, from now on, if anyone asks for an example of a Cascadian Dark Ale, we tell them to look for a Big Black Homo!
I know carne will like that! ;)
 
eanmcnulty said:
I like the name Cascadian Dark Ale. Has a nice ring to it. There already is a style India Ale. Why not pick something different? Why not honor the Northwest region with a style? I vote for CDA! Do I get a vote?
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Because its not their style.
 
We should name it Tiger Ale because it's dark and bitter and smells like pinecones, and after a few you'll screw anything with a pulse.

Does that make any more sense than naming it after a particular region of the country?
 
I'm not necessarily trying to take a side here, I'm just looking for knowledge and understanding of the situation. Here are my questions:

Does everyone agree that the style did not originate solely in Cascadia?

Did Cascadia have any influence on the origin as far as actually brewing the style in the early days?

Is it fair to say that the Cascadian region popularized the style?

Are there any good commercial examples that do not use hops that originated in the area?

^^If not, would it be possible to brew a good example that did not use hops that originated in the area?
 
alexdagrate said:
point well taken. i agree that i cast the first stone.

i can understand how the regionalistic nature of the CDA can irk some. I'll try to be civil and less of a jerk about it when posting on HBT, but I'm still a VERY vocal proponent for this style and this name, but I'll remember to keep it civil in the future.
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:mug:
Way to man up about it, lol. you are entitled to your opinion certainly.

weirdboy said:
We should name it Tiger Ale because it's dark and bitter and smells like pinecones, and after a few you'll screw anything with a pulse.

Does that make any more sense than naming it after a particular region of the country?
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I vote for Tiger Piss Ale.


Why not American Dark Ale?

Can't we all get behind that?

Americans invented it DAMMIT!!!! Instead of national Brewing pride, we divide ourselves.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Americans invented it DAMMIT!!!! Instead of national Brewing pride, we divide ourselves.
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Here's where I see it, and let me be clear, I in no way claim to represent Abram or the other folks who coined the CDA moniker... however:

Some dudes in Oregon realized they really liked hoppy, slightly roasted beers. The versions that came to mind to them as first existing were Rogue's Skullsplitter and Phillips's Black Toque (since renamed Skookum Cascadian Brown Ale but that's a whole 'nuther story...)

They started brewing it themselves in their homebrew setups and encouraging their local brewers to make the style as well.

They are also fans of brewing organic beer.

They drink some Fish Tale Organic IPA, which is labeled as "Brewed in the Republic of Cascadia." They think that sounds kinda awesome. They notice that Victoria, Olympia, and Newport are all within the borders of this fictional nation, and coin the term "Cascadian Dark Ale."

Hopworks Urban Brewery in Portland releases the Secession Cascadian Dark Ale. It is also labeled in merchandise, on the bottles, and in the pub as a "Black IPA." There is also, however, prominent maps of the Republic of Cascadia and images of the "Doug Fir" Flag, which is the flag of the Republic. (You can purchase a flag for yourself from a small flag company in Salem, but I digress...).

It's clear to most that Phillips and Rogue independently developed very similar recipes for dark, hoppy beers. I think it's also clear that these beers were developed independently of brewers in Vermont, Texas, or San Diego. Hell, this style has probably been independently developed by homebrewers all over the world... either innovative alchemists who took chances or screw-ups who accidentally tossed some Carafa into the mash tun.

It's a crazy thing, no doubt. But keep in mind, The Republic of Cascadia is FICTIONAL. There was a real effort at one time to re-name Imperial IPAs "San Diego Pale Ale," and this is part of what pissed off CDA-boosters. Isn't using a fictional, hilarious name like Cascadia better than actually naming a particular city or county?

Part of what's awesome about Cascadia is that it jokingly refers to breaking off states and provinces from two different countries, basically because all of the new citizens would share the same tastes in rain gear. Cascadia evokes images of tall trees, clear water, and Sasquatch... lots of Sasquatch.

Enjoy it. It's like having a "Narnian Strong Ale" or an "Arcadian Mild."

So relax, kick back, and have a homebrewed "Mordorian Stout" or "Oceanic Bock."
 
It's a crazy thing, no doubt. But keep in mind, The Republic of Cascadia is FICTIONAL. There was a real effort at one time to re-name Imperial IPAs "San Diego Pale Ale," and this is part of what pissed off CDA-boosters. Isn't using a fictional, hilarious name like Cascadia better than actually naming a particular city or county?
Click to expand...

But, the Cascades certainly aren't fictional, and that's the first place I think of when I hear "Cascadia". And wouldn't you know it, the Cascades are most closely associated with Oregon.


I don't agree with the San Diego Pale Ale either. I think both are tacky rah-rah names.
 
Cheers brother, if that is the order of things.

Others have said that it originated in Ale Pails elsewhere.

I guess it doesn't really matter.
 
That is my point as well. It doesn't matter where it developed, because it developed many places. Cascadian Dark Ale has great sound to it. Texas Black Ale sounds cool too! Like Texas Black Oil Ale. San Diego Pale Ale does not really evoke any images for me. If it has to be a new style why not give it name with style?
 
Synovia said:
It's not the region's style. It was developed elsewhere.
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Actually, it can be a regional style based on either where it originated or where it was popularized.

I think someone already pointed this out: think India Pale Ale or Russian Imperial Stout -- they weren't really created in those places.

The Pacific northwest certainly can lay a claim to popularizing dark ales full of (locally produced) American hops. Is anybody REALLY contesting this?
 
weirdboy said:
But, the Cascades certainly aren't fictional, and that's the first place I think of when I hear "Cascadia". And wouldn't you know it, the Cascades are most closely associated with Oregon.
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I'm curious to know why you think they are mostly associated with Oregon? Mt. Rainer is the tallest. Mt. St. Hellens blew up, and Mt. Baker holds the world record for snowfall in a season. All of them are in the State of Washington.

I prefer CDA, but it's just a name. The beer is all the same.

Shakespeare said:
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
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Add another big brewery using CDA. It just might stick

Deschutes Press Release


04 March 2010 – Bend, Oregon – What takes 22 brews and more than a year of experiments to reach perfection? Deschutes Brewery’s newest Bond Street Series release: Hop in the Dark Cascadian Dark Ale (C.D.A.). C.D.A. is a new style of beer that emerged recently in the Pacific Northwest, more widely known as a Black I.P.A. There has been a significant movement and debate in the region to call the style C.D.A., and Deschutes Brewery leads the way with Hop in the Dark.

This ominous looking liquid combines prominent Northwest hops with roasted malts to create a black tinted India Pale Ale type beer. Hop in the Dark aromas come from Cascade, Amarillo, Citra and Centennial hops that float over a gentle undercurrent of velvet malt complexities.

“We’ve been serving renditions of this beer in both our Bend and Portland pubs for over a year, experimenting on our customers as we perfected the recipe,” said Brewmaster Larry Sidor. “This beer has subtle coffee undertones born from a blend of oats with dark, Munich and crystal malts. Classic IPA flavors and aromas are due to courageous additions of various hops.”

Hop in the Dark is the latest to join Deschutes Brewery’s Bond Street Series, which originally rose up from the hundreds of beers the brewery has tried out on friends and critics at the Downtown Bend Pub. These local favorites, old and new, are brewed in small batches a few times a year, displaying Deschutes Brewery’s diversity and creativity.

Deschutes Brewery invites beer lovers to take the plunge – a hop, if you will – into this new Dark Cascadian Ale. Many may never even try to swim for shore. Available across the western U.S. in 22 oz bottles and on draft from late May through September.
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The name of course is self-aggrandizing, but still you all have to admit that the PNW is a huge part of what makes up many of the "American" style beers. These beers are normally hoppy, especially when compared to their European counterparts.

I am 100% in favor of rewarding this part of our country with the style name. And thanks for the hops, Cascadia! (a big heehaw goes out to Puterbaugh Farms)

Now, whether or not another style in the BJCP guidelines is necessary or not is another matter.
 
passedpawn said:
The name of course is self-aggrandizing, but still you all have to admit that the PNW is a huge part of what makes up many of the "American" style beers. These beers are normally hoppy, especially when compared to their European counterparts.
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Among many others, the two largest American breweries associated with what you call "American" style beers, Sierra Nevada and Stone, aren't located in the Pacific Northwest.
 
To me, the press release says it all.

"C.D.A. is a new style of beer that emerged recently in the Pacific Northwest, more widely known as a Black I.P.A."

If it is more widely known as something other than CDA.... then why the move to change the name?

BJCP Style 27

American Dark

A. Cascadian Dark Ale.......

B. Minnesota Mudd (Not to offend but rather to illustrate regional differences)

C. ..........
and so on
 
weirdboy said:
Among many others, the two largest American breweries associated with what you call "American" style beers, Sierra Nevada and Stone, aren't located in the Pacific Northwest.
Click to expand...

I think I am missing your point here (or, more likely, I wasn't clear before). As pointed out here before, almost all the American-grown hops you use in your beers come from the PNW. And, in the BJCP guidelines, American style beers (yea, like our pale ale) are hop-forward.

It is hops that usually gives a beer it's "american" prefix.

It is Cascadia from which the hops come.
 
passedpawn said:
I think I am missing your point here (or, more likely, I wasn't clear before). As pointed out here before, almost all the American-grown hops you use in your beers come from the PNW. And, in the BJCP guidelines, American style beers (yea, like our pale ale) are hop-forward.

It is hops that usually gives a beer it's "american" prefix.

It is Cascadia from which the hops come.
Click to expand...

So a California Common should have been named after Northern Brewers, then? We're naming the beers after the growing locations of the ingredients?
 

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