Analyze my Arrogant Bastard clone

So this was my first brew ever. I picked an Arrogant Bastard clone. It was bottled for 5 weeks per the directions and I finally tasted it. It actually tastes good but isn't close to AB. Keep in mind I don't have a very good palate so being able to describe the difference isn't going to happen.

Here is what I used -

Steeped 1.5 lbs Crystal 120L Malt
10.5 Lbs Amber Extract
2 1/2 oz Chinook at 60
3/4 oz Chinook at 15
3/4 oz Chinook at 5
White Labs California Al V 051

In Primary for 6 or 7 days
Moved to secondary for 6 or 7 also

There was nothing that happened during brewing that sticks out as mistake at all. If anything it went better than my second brew.

Some random info if it helps -

Fermentation was a constant 73 degrees +/- 1 degree
Bottles sat for 5 weeks in dark room

I know this may not help at all without being able to taste it but I was just wondering if anyone had any info. Again, it actually tastes good so I am not too annoyed by it, I just wanted to get it right and understand why it tasted off. Also, I was told at the homebrew store that this one is dead on flavor wise.

Thanks in advance !

FWIW, here's a link to the Brewing Network's clone attempt - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-stone-arrogant-bastard-176191/

even though they called it not cloned, there is some good info within the post/ recipe

sorry pal, descriptions are not good enuf. For a true analysis PM me for my address. Please, can you send a minimum of 24 samples as I have many discerning friends plus I'm sure we will drop a few.

Here at the white labs site, they state optimum temperature is 66-70.

that's a pretty tight range, but your 73 might have been a tad warm.
I'm sure it's drinkable. Next time try to hold the temps lower. Start at the low end, so the fury of fermentation can wreak havoc and still keep you in range.

Hang Glider said:

Here at the white labs site, they state optimum temperature is 66-70.

that's a pretty tight range, but your 73 might have been a tad warm.
I'm sure it's drinkable. Next time try to hold the temps lower. Start at the low end, so the fury of fermentation can wreak havoc and still keep you in range.

Click to expand...

Last night I listened to "Can you brew it" on the Jamil show and they had the brewer from Stone who would not answer any of their questions when they were trying to figure out what was in the beer. They did say they ferment all of their beers at 75 degrees if I remember correctly. Could have been 73 maybe.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter unless I am using the same yeast they are.

It is hard to clone a beer that brewers spend so much time on let alone when you are new to brewing. First off, stone uses a whirlpool if I'm not mistaken and they would use more hops per barrel than you have in your recipe.

A typical rule of thumb for bitter beers is to double your bitter addition for the amount of aroma and flavor hops. That being said you have a lot for your bittering addition but this may be a partial boil, not sure if you mentioned that.

Also I think it has been said several places but WLP007 is the closest you will come to stones yeast and that plays a big part.

humann_brewing said:

It is hard to clone a beer that brewers spend so much time on let alone when you are new to brewing. First off, stone uses a whirlpool if I'm not mistaken and they would use more hops per barrel than you have in your recipe.

A typical rule of thumb for bitter beers is to double your bitter addition for the amount of aroma and flavor hops. That being said you have a lot for your bittering addition but this may be a partial boil, not sure if you mentioned that.

Click to expand...

Yeah...it was a partial boil. Don't have the room yet for full.

Wingfan13 said:

Yeah...it was a partial boil. Don't have the room yet for full.

Click to expand...

that being said, that is not a lot of finishing hops then.

humann_brewing said:

Also I think it has been said several places but WLP007 is the closest you will come to stones yeast and that plays a big part.

Click to expand...

I think the closest you would get is Pacman, which is the yeast Stone actually uses.

ChshreCat said:

I think the closest you would get is Pacman, which is the yeast Stone actually uses.

Click to expand...

huh, where did you see that? I know your from the NW so your not confusing stone and rogue right?

Yeah, I think that's Rogue for the Pacman.

And Stone said they ferment everything in the 70's? (OP) - wow, that's warm! Got a link to that podcast?

Hang Glider said:

Yeah, I think that's Rogue for the Pacman.

And Stone said they ferment everything in the 70's? (OP) - wow, that's warm! Got a link to that podcast?

Click to expand...

keep in mind that they are using conicals that are umpteen ft tall and the hydrostatic pressure keeps ester production from fermentation to a minimum.

So long story short, they can get away with it.

Hang Glider said:

Yeah, I think that's Rogue for the Pacman.

And Stone said they ferment everything in the 70's? (OP) - wow, that's warm! Got a link to that podcast?

Click to expand...

Here is the link. Listening again now to make sure I was correct.

http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/cybi08-31-09.mp3

Off by a few, at the 19:55 min mark he says they have a proprietary yeast from white labs and that they ferment at 72 degrees.

I'm pretty sure I've heard Greg Koch say they ferment most of their stuff around 68.

Most of the time as homebrewers we need to ferment cooler than the pros

Wingfan13 said:

Here is the link. Listening again now to make sure I was correct.

http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/cybi08-31-09.mp3

Off by a few, at the 19:55 min mark he says they have a proprietary yeast from white labs and that they ferment at 72 degrees.

Click to expand...

As humann_brewing pointed out, fermentation temperature does not transfer directly to a homebrewing scale. I think they mention this later in the episode and give the temp they used, which I believe was under 70 degrees.

ChshreCat said:

I think the closest you would get is Pacman, which is the yeast Stone actually uses.

Click to expand...

I believe Stone has their own proprietary strain. BYO suggested WLP002 when they did their stone clone issue.
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16539&size=big&cat=all&ppuser=8531

humann_brewing said:

huh, where did you see that? I know your from the NW so your not confusing stone and rogue right?

Click to expand...

Wouldn't be the first time I was confused, at least. Rogue and Stone always seem like practically the same to me.

I did use Pacman for my Arrogant Bastard clone and it worked really well.

+1 on getting the fermentation temps down under 70.

I'm confused. when they say fermentation temps, they're talking about the temp inside the fermenter, right? Or are they talking about ambient temps?

mikeysab said:

I'm confused. when they say fermentation temps, they're talking about the temp inside the fermenter, right? Or are they talking about ambient temps?

Click to expand...

The temp of the beer in the fermenter. That can be several degrees higher than ambient temps outside.

One of the things I remember from that podcast(its been a month or so since I heard it) was that the commercial brew had more esters than the attempted clone. 73 might be a little too high but if I was shooting for some esters I would ferment it at the upper end of what White labs says, so maybe 70 or so.

I know the temp inside is higher than ambient, but with all the talk of temperatures, I just want to clear up WHICH temperature wyeast, or WL, or you guys are talking about. It's probably an obvious thing, but it doesn't take much to confuse me. This IS the coffee brewing forum, right?

corbomite said:

One of the things I remember from that podcast(its been a month or so since I heard it) was that the commercial brew had more esters than the attempted clone. 73 might be a little too high but if I was shooting for some esters I would ferment it at the upper end of what White labs says, so maybe 70 or so.

Click to expand...

Or use a yeast more prone to esters.