Will these ssr's work?

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They should work fine. They will probably need a heat sink if you're going to run them at full capacity though.
They will work fine for a march pump too, but I think you would have to use them like a standard relay - On/Off, not as a speed control.
 
SweetSounds said:
They should work fine. They will probably need a heat sink if you're going to run them at full capacity though.
They will work fine for a march pump too, but I think you would have to use them like a standard relay - On/Off, not as a speed control.
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Thanks, that was my plan for the pumps.
 
Just out of curiousity why would you need an ssr for a pump? Are you running 240vac pumps? The march pump I have is 120 vac and I can power it off/on with a switch.
 
gunner65 said:
Just out of curiousity why would you need an ssr for a pump? Are you running 240vac pumps? The march pump I have is 120 vac and I can power it off/on with a switch.
Click to expand...

Maybe I don't? I was planning on running them through a BCS-460, and was under the impression you needed a relay for switching?:confused:
 
wildwest450 said:
Maybe I don't? I was planning on running them through a BCS-460, and was under the impression you needed a relay for switching?:confused:
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Sorry I didnt know you going full auto. The other day you posted about PWM I thought you firing your brew kettle PWM and needed an on/off for the pump. Yes, if you are going brewtroller thingy full auto you need a way to fire the pump. I will take my nose out this as I know very little about that software.
 
gunner65 said:
Sorry I didnt know you going full auto. The other day you posted about PWM I thought you firing your brew kettle PWM and needed an on/off for the pump. Yes, if you are going brewtroller thingy full auto you need a way to fire the pump. I will take my nose out this as I know very little about that software.
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If you know very little your one step ahead of me. Not going full auto...yet. But with the price of pids and for what it does this is a no brainer. Plus the fact that I always have my laptop out when I brew.
 
It is a cool little system especially the exchange of software between other users. Customization is endless with these. PIDs are only about $40 each but I only needed one in my system.
 
gunner65 said:
PIDs are only about $40 each but I only needed one in my system.
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Yeah, i'm just trying to justify it.:mug:
Although i'm going to start near the top this time, instead of constantly upgrading. This will allow me many different options in the future.
 
You have sparked the engineer in me to spend the past several hours researching I think the brewtroller system may be in my future.
 
wildwest450 said:
I think a 5500 watt element pulls 22amps at full tilt. Is 25amp big enough or should I go 30? And will these work for a march pump? I figure I can just get them all at one time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-D2425-So...ultDomain_0&hash=item1e5a4ad013#ht_500wt_1154
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Are you going to use one SSR for the element, or two SSRs (one SSR for each hot leg for safety) as the BCS-460 forum suggests ? I'm asking because i am considering the same system.

Question, if you use one SSR for each leg of the 240v, does each leg pull 11 amps (11amps x 2 = 22amps) ? If yes, then wouldn't a 25amp SSR on each leg be fine?
 
wildwest, 25A would be fine. Im running 5500W on these
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ys_-z-_Timers/Solid-State_Relays/AD-SSR225-DC

Zer, current in = current out. It's a 22A load at 240V. Each relay will see the full 22A. It goes into relay 1, through the element and then through relay 2. Since AC is alternating current, the current flow will then run through relay 2, through the element, and then out relay 1. Think of the electricity sloshing back and forth through the wire.

SweetSounds, standard octal relays wont survive 22A. You're talking BMF power relays, contactors, or small motor starters. However, the BCS can only drive small amounts of DC current, hence the SSR.
 
CodeRage said:
wildwest, 25A would be fine. Im running 5500W on these
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ys_-z-_Timers/Solid-State_Relays/AD-SSR225-DC

Zer, current in = current out. It's a 22A load at 240V. Each relay will see the full 22A. It goes into relay 1, through the element and then through relay 2. Since AC is alternating current, the current flow will then run through relay 2, through the element, and then out relay 1. Think of the electricity sloshing back and forth through the wire.

SweetSounds, standard octal relays wont survive 22A. You're talking BMF power relays, contactors, or small motor starters. However, the BCS can only drive small amounts of DC current, hence the SSR.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! Those ssr's are expensive. Are heat sinks a necessity? And are you saying you need 2 per element?:confused:
 
For a 240V operation, I wouldn't bother with the extra SSR. SSR's can fail either open or shut, depending on how they are designed. I would just use one SSR to switch one leg. A heating load is just a big resistor in series, so you can switch either side, L1 or L2. You want to add in a 2-pole supplemental breaker rated for your load as your primary safety device as well as a GFCI/RCD device for ground fault detection.

Also, depending on what ambient temperatures the SSR is going to see you'll want to derate the SSR for your load. Most SSR's have derating curves on their datasheet and you'll want to make sure your device won't be operating in higher temperatures, reducing the current handling of the device. For example, a SSR rated for 30 A @ 70F may be derated to 25 A @ 90F... Just something to think about when selecting SSR's.
 
Like I said, those SSRs work fine at room temp.

I switch both legs of my element using a 40A 2 pole electro mechanical contactor. When the HOA switch is in Auto it pulls the contactor in, I have one SSR driven by the PID controller attached to one leg. I'm of the mentality if a device is in automatic it is considered to be on. at all times. However, when the HOA switch for the element is in the Off position there is no voltage on either side of the element.

Yes, heat sinks are mandatory when running the higher currents. As the triac in the SSR (the part that allows AC through) transitions from off to on and on to off is when it generates the majority of it's heat. This is due to the resistance change in the junction. If you are switching very frequently you will need a bigger heat sink.

I wanted DIN rail mounted SSRs, makes installing and modifying a control panel neat, easy, and clean. That may be why they were so expensive. I did not originally spec those for the 5500W element, I was running a 4500W in my BK but changed it to a HWD 5500 about 9 months ago to test 'wort scorching' (which by the way has not been evident in my beer for the last 9 months. So it has stayed. I would recommend those SSRs for 5500W at room temp. If you are getting crydoms might as well splurge and get 30A or 40A models. The cost difference is really negligible.
 
I'm in the process of building an E-HERMS and am using Auber Instruments SSRs for my elements. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=30
$19 for a 40A SSR seemed like a pretty good deal to me. That side also sells high power contactors. My plan is to run both legs of each element through a contactor which is controlled by a main power switch, then one leg through the SSR for PID control.
 
CodeRage said:
wildwest, 25A would be fine. Im running 5500W on these
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ys_-z-_Timers/Solid-State_Relays/AD-SSR225-DC

Zer, current in = current out. It's a 22A load at 240V. Each relay will see the full 22A. It goes into relay 1, through the element and then through relay 2. Since AC is alternating current, the current flow will then run through relay 2, through the element, and then out relay 1. Think of the electricity sloshing back and forth through the wire.

SweetSounds, standard octal relays wont survive 22A. You're talking BMF power relays, contactors, or small motor starters. However, the BCS can only drive small amounts of DC current, hence the SSR.
Click to expand...

Thanks Coderage.

I found some cheap SSRs (40A, 24-480V AC, 3-25 mA control/input) with heatsinks here. $14.99, but takes 15 days to receive from China.

Wildwest, keep in mind that if you are going to use the BCS-460, the control/input current for the SSR must be less than 20 mlliamps because the max current that the BCS-460 can send to an SSR is 20 mA. I think the SSR that CodeRage suggested will work fine, BUT, since it has an input current of 16 mA (see specs on right), you would only be able to use one SSR per BCS-460 output.

If you wanted to control multiple devices with a single BCS-460 output, the input current of the SSR must be less than 10mA. Example, if an SSR has an input current of 3.7mA, then you could control up to 5 devices (5 SSR's x 3.7mA = 18.5mA, which is less than the 20mA maximum) on each BCS-460 output. A brewer may want output 1 on their BCS-460 to control both 5500W 240V elements in his 40 gallon BK, with each element on a separate SSR.

Anyone, please let me know if the above info about the BCS-460 is incorrect. I have been reading the BCS-460 forums for only a day now, so I could have misunderstood something.
 
wildwest450 said:
Anyone care to share a pic of your panel guts so I can get a visual?:eek:
Click to expand...

I'm building a BCS based system...
I am still in the process of building the final panel. Right now I have it laid out on a temporary plywood back plane.. I have brewed several times and I'm happy with the functionality so I am moving forward (very slowly). The temporary build thread is:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-question-153310/index21.html

There is a logical electrical diagram and wiring diagram in post #204 and pics of the temporary setup in post #210.

Mine is fairly involved, it could be simpler, but I would strongly recommend you do a wiring diagram before you start building. As you can see, it quickly becomes quite a mess, the diagram was invaluable.

There will be a few changes in the final version but the functionality is still the same as in the thread.
 
wildwest450 said:
I appreciate the info, I can't get the links to work though. :(
Click to expand...

Sorry about that... #204 is a link to the Viso files (someone asked for a copy of the files so they could modify for their own use).

There is a link in post #200 to a zip file containing PDF files of the same.
(I had to zip the files because they were to big for me to attach)
 

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