Noob needs clarification about swamp coolers

Sorry in advance for my n00bish behavior.

I'm attempting to piece together the MANY references to swamp coolers, but am lacking any one definite "how-to" on the subject.

I'm currently fermenting a cream ale at an average of 69 degrees. I would like to get it around 65 degrees.

1) From my understanding, a swamp cooler is basically putting the primary in a large bucket/rubbermaid container with water with a continuous cycle of ice to keep the water chilled. Correct?

2) Now, I have also read about putting a t-shirt on the primary first, then placing that in the water. Is this to achieve an even lower temp?

3) Can this be set up during fermentation or would i be better off not disturbing the primary and using the cooler for future batches?

Thanks for any help you can send my way!

No need to apologize. You have the basic idea. The t-shirt wicks up the water and keeps a more uniform temp. If you're early in fermentation, like a day or two, it's worth attempting. If you're 4-5 days in, I'd just wait until your next batch.

I have a 2.5 bushel bucket in which I put about 6-10 inches of water then put the primary in that. I'll throw a few of those gel ice packs in and switch them out a couple of times a day. Works like a charm.

1) Correct
2) You put it around the top and into the water, pulls water onto the top of the carboy to keep it cool
3) Sure, it will settle out by the time you rack off for bottling or secondary

./pwned!

Rather than using ice cubes, I put plastic water bottles on the freezer. Then about twice a day I would switch them out and put fresh ones in.

I do the same as everyone above, as far as swapping out freezer packs.

I also have 1/2 gallon jugs that are frozen. I prop a fan on the edge of my bath tub and the other edge of the fan on the edge of my bushel bucket (full of water). I swap out placing the 1/2 gallon jugs in front of the fan. It may seem like over kill but in Florida I have a hard time keeping cool temps. SWMBO won't let the AC go below 77-78.

I think a ferm chamber is in my near future.

Also, try aiming a small fan at the carboy that has the t-shirt draped over it. The cool water evaporating off the shirt will help cool things even further.

fezzman said:

I prop a fan on the edge of my bath tub and the other edge of the fan on the edge of my bushel bucket (full of water).

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Electronics and water!! be careful! Time for a ferm chamber build...less risk of death by electrocution!!

strat_thru_marshall said:

Electronics and water!! be careful! Time for a ferm chamber build...less risk of death by electrocution!!

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I had a feeling someone would point that out.:cross:

The bath doesn't get used. There is only enough room around my fermentor, while in my large bushel bucket to slide thin ice packs. It is physically impossible for the large fan to fall inside of the bucket while my fermentor is inside. Really, it won't even fit in the bucket without the fermentor.

If SWMBO approves of my setup* then all is right with the world.



*she doesn't like the clutter but sees nothing unsafe with the setup. Even with these extra steps I can never seem to get temps below 71...and that is if I change ice very frequently. I think I just need a ferm chamber to keep a constant low temp.

If your beer is fermenting at 69 degrees now I'd just leave it their. 65 might be a more ideal temperature for your yeast strain, but you typically don't want to cool your wort once it starts fermenting. Leave this batch alone and go with your swamp cooler method the next time out.

fezzman said:

...Even with these extra steps I can never seem to get temps below 71...and that is if I change ice very frequently. I think I just need a ferm chamber to keep a constant low temp.

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How much water do you use? the more water volume (3/4 the way up) the better you'll be able to control it - assuming you get the water to a desired temp first. When I was doing it this way, I'd get cold water from the faucet (82F), dump in a 20# bag of ice, get the water to desired temps, then put my carboy in.

indoor/outdoor thermometer from wally world has a lengthy waterproof probe that gets dropped into the water bath, and then swapping frozen water bottles twice a day does the trick - All the fan did for me was make the room unbearably humid...

Hang Glider said:

How much water do you use? the more water volume (3/4 the way up) the better you'll be able to control it - assuming you get the water to a desired temp first. When I was doing it this way, I'd get cold water from the faucet (82F), dump in a 20# bag of ice, get the water to desired temps, then put my carboy in.

indoor/outdoor thermometer from wally world has a lengthy waterproof probe that gets dropped into the water bath, and then swapping frozen water bottles twice a day does the trick - All the fan did for me was make the room unbearably humid...

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I did notice that the room gets quite humid with a fan.

I fill my blue bucket all the way to the top, which is about at the 5 gallon mark on my primary bucket. I use a shirt to wick up over the rest of the sides.

Maybe I just need an even larger diameter plastic bucket. I only have about 2" extra clearance all the way around my fermentor. I guess I've always been worried about using too much ice at the start, like your 20#, just because I was worried about crashing the yeast before they ever get to work.

fezzman said:

Even with these extra steps I can never seem to get temps below 71...and that is if I change ice very frequently. I think I just need a ferm chamber to keep a constant low temp.

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I don't know about you guys, but the evaporative cooling method looks underwhelming to me. Several people lately have stated they can only get temps down so far.

I used an ice cube cooler ($25 at Academy Sports) for a little extra insulation than a Rubbermaid tub provides, and do the ice pack method, no t-shirt, no fans. Cover the opening of the cooler with folded over towels to help insulate. With a carboy only the neck will protrude through the towels.

I fermented my witbier at around 63 degrees with 78 degree ambient temps, no problems maintaining temperature whatsoever.

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/38DD-Mother-of-a-Fermentation-Chiller

I built that and can get the temps down to 62 so far. It works like a charm and the ice is in tubs so I switch it out once every two days after the initial cooling period.

In a dry climate (like the southwest) a swamp cooler can drop temps 20-25 degrees below ambient. This is best best case scenario. In moister climes they don't work so well. Plus on using the fan, another plus if you can ventilate the room. The air can only hold so much moisture before evaporation fails.

beerthirty said:

In a dry climate (like the southwest) a swamp cooler can drop temps 20-25 degrees below ambient. This is best best case scenario. In moister climes they don't work so well. Plus on using the fan, another plus if you can ventilate the room. The air can only hold so much moisture before evaporation fails.

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That's what I was going to say! In the humid areas of the southeast, I think a swamp cooler would have limited usefulness since it relies on evaporative cooling. If the humidity is high, the evaporative cooling doesn't work.

What will work better in that case is something like the Son of a Fermentation Chiller, or even a cooler. In my case (not nearly as hot as in FL of course!), I have an Icecube wheeled cooler. I took off the hollow lid, and made a new foam lid out of 4 layers of foam insulation. I cut a hole for the airlock to poke out. I can fill the cooler with water, and give my fermenter a water bath, and add frozen water bottles to it. I float a thermometer in the water bath, and wheel it to the coolest place in my home. (There are pictures in my gallery, at the end of all of the other pictures).

joekerr1 said:

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/38DD-Mother-of-a-Fermentation-Chiller

I built that and can get the temps down to 62 so far. It works like a charm and the ice is in tubs so I switch it out once every two days after the initial cooling period.

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That is absolutely beautiful. I think I'll have to give some serious thought to that.

Yooper, your cooler idea sounds do-able too. Anything has got to be better for my temps than my current setup.

thanks everyone for the advice! I figured that was the general idea of the cooler.. but i wanted to be sure.

I will wait until next batch to use the cooler.. as I'm already about a week into my first batch..

an update for anyone thats interested.

I do NOT recommend using the party tub with rope handles for a swamp cooler. There is no insulation and I am struggling to get a consistent temp. I have been cycling out four frozen 20 oz soda bottles about every 4-6 hours (thats if I'm even home or awake to make the swap). The temp will settle down to about 64F for about an hour , then rise to about ambient temp of the room (70-72F) over the next few hours. The swamp cooler was also placed directly underneath my air conditioning unit in my kitchen.

I placed a t-shirt over the bucket, and towels over the top of the cooler.

If you're going to try a swamp cooler, use a cooler as your base, not the party/keg tub. I am now going to build a nice looking mother of fermentation chiller and try that approach for my next brew!

Buckets and carboys fit very well in 10 gallon round coolers. Coolers multitask beautifully in the home brewery as insulated fermenter coolant jackets, keg ice buckets, and mash/lauter tuns.

I looked for the round coolers but could only find five gallon ones. also I'm too late in the season to find a good supply of various coolers; the stores are clearing them out now.

for 18 dollars I'm building a simple, no frills mother of fermentation chiller. That will be at least as good as a swamp cooler using a cooler for my needs, and I can make it look nicer and not have to hide it in a closet.

These types of coolers are only necessary for the first week or so of primary right? After that temps don't need to be controlled as much? I'm asking because changing out ice bottles twice a day for a month (if I wanted it sit in the primary that long) seems tedious.

like everything... it depends on who you ask. I think it is probably okay to let it slide after the first week during initial fermentation, but I would rather have the temp steady during the whole primary and secondary (if I do secondary). That's just me.

And yes.... changing out bottles twice or more a day is annoying... I hope to only have to change bottles once every couple of days with the MOFC, using frozen 2L soda bottles.

joekerr1 said:

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/38DD-Mother-of-a-Fermentation-Chiller

I built that and can get the temps down to 62 so far. It works like a charm and the ice is in tubs so I switch it out once every two days after the initial cooling period.

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Is that an iPod in Micah's chiller?

Yeah, you're right I'm sure I'll get various answers to that question. I think in the end I am going to go away from a swamp cooler setup and go with a mini-fridge.

MetallHed said:

an update for anyone thats interested.

I do NOT recommend using the party tub with rope handles for a swamp cooler. There is no insulation and I am struggling to get a consistent temp. I have been cycling out four frozen 20 oz soda bottles about every 4-6 hours (thats if I'm even home or awake to make the swap). The temp will settle down to about 64F for about an hour , then rise to about ambient temp of the room (70-72F) over the next few hours.

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I suggest using 2L bottles instead of 20 ouncers.

I live in MI, keep the ambient temperature in the apartment at 73, and I can keep the temperature on my primary down to 65 pretty easily by using a basic bucket full of water and frozen water bottles.

I have a couple of 20 ouncers that I use when I just need it to get a bit cooler, but my workhorses are the 2L bottles. They take longer to fully melt out, so they can keep the temperature more consistent.

Again though, I do agree with other posters that there is only so much this method can do. If your temperature is not very controlled where you're keeping the water, then it's not going to be able to do very much. Starting at a baseline of 73 is going to make this much more effective for me, than someone else starting from a baseline of 77 in terms of how fast the ice is going to melt in the bottles initially.

2L would work great I'm sure.. but won't fit in my party tub. There is about four inches to spare on either side of the bucket..

MetallHed said:

2L would work great I'm sure.. but won't fit in my party tub. There is about four inches to spare on either side of the bucket..

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Ah...well, for people who are still in the pre-purchase stage, if you have the space I recommend getting one of the big rectangular rubbermaid type tubs. I think I paid $6 for one? I'm not sure of the exact capacity, but it easily fits my 6.5 gallon primary bucket and then has about 6 inches of space on all 4 sides. This means more water and more space for ice bottles, which makes using the bigger, 2L bottles a breeze, and it helps retain the coolness easier too.

I imagine having only a small ring of water surrounding the bucket would greatly reduce the effectiveness of the method, again, faster warming.

I use an Igloo "Cube" type beer cooler. It is a little taller than the average cooler so I can fill it with water and small frozen water bottles. Once the water and wort get cool, you only have to change the bottles about once a day (if that much). It is insulated, so the heat loss is minimal. I leave the lid open and cover with black plastic trash bags, with a hole in the top for my airlock. I keep a thermometer submerged in the cooler water so I can check the temperature periodically. It seems to work great for me. I can cool and hold temps, even for lagers, with no problem.
One added benefit is the outside of the cooler doesn't condensate and make a mess.