Harvesting Bell's Yeast

Planning on harvesting Bell's yeast from 4 bottles of their Amber for an upcoming two hearted ale clone I have planned. Been doing a lot of reading on harvesting from bottle conditioned beers as this will be my first attempt. A few simple questions before I get started though.

Bell's own blog reccommends using 75ml of wort for the first step and then stepping up to 750ml for the second step. 75ml is a pretty small amount and not enough to get a stir plate going. Should I just use my 1 liter flask with a sponge type bung and let it sit for a few days? Maybe give it a swirl every so often? After that has fermented out I'll just add my 750ml of wort to my flask and can then get the stir plate going. After my second step what can I estimate my cell count to be? I'll be using yeastcalc to do further step ups to get what I need for my 10 gallon batch, but need an estimated starting cell count after my 750ml starter. Also, should I be doing the standard 1.037-1.040 gravity wort for the initial steps? Or should I be using a wort with a little lower gravity?

Thanks!!

1.040 is fine for a starter of any size.

75ml seems small. If you have 4 bottles' worth of dregs, you may want to multiply that 75ml by 4. I'm assuming that's a kick start for a single bottle. I wouldn't worry too much about stirplate at the first stage. Also, they can do their things quickly and without much signs of activity when there's so little wort.

I haven't tried to estimate cell count when harvesting yeast. I usually do a small batch to start, ramp it up to a 1L starter, then decant and if I need more, I step up to a 2L or larger.

Thanks.

Yeah, 75ml does seem pretty small. The Bell's blog recommends using 1-3 bottles of beer. Mayble I'll start off with 150ml and jump up to a 1L starter for my second step.

I've been using yeastcalc to try and really fine tune my pitching rates. It's one of the things I'm trying to do to help get my beer a little bit better. For estimating cell count I think I'll mark my 1L flask at varying spots close to the bottom in ml. That way I should be able to see how many ml of yeast slurry I have and get a fairly accurate cell count. I can then punch that into yeastcalc and start stepping up to what I need for my brew.

That's exactly what I did with great success.

ETA: it's helpful to have a 250 ml flask (about $3 at the science shop) for that first step.

Thanks.

And great idea on the smaller flask. I have a 1L and 2L flask now. Never considered a smaller one for projects like this. Can't think of any place local to find one though. Any ideas?

Small jar. The shape won't make much difference. I've use a few different household containers with varying success. Mostly it depends on the shape of the bottom.

Amazon will probably have smaller flasks. Do a search for Erlenmyer.

I bought a set of 3 small flasks off Amazon for like $10 I think. Really handy when doing yeast projects.

Just to throw out my alternate method that has worked well for rogue beers, I pitch the dregs from a sixpack into a bottle of pasturized apple cider(from trader joes, no preservatives) with some space poured off the top, put the lid back on and give it a good shake. I give it a few days and then once I start hearing the telltale hiss of the starting fermentation, I transfer over to a growler bottle with an airlock and let it go. It might take a bit more time to get going than a true starter, but it sure beats boiling DME. Plus, I cold crash in the fridge and decant into swingtops for a few bonus bottles of cider.

Is Bells yeast supposed to be good? I know some who say oberon is their favorite beer, but personally I'm not a fan of wheat beers which I think I taste some of in the oberon. I've heard people say pacman is a boring ale yeast because it is too clean.

You can always pour 150 ml of wort right into the Bell's bottle on top of the dregs.

Bells yeast is very good, and very versatile. I have a 3L starter in my fridge right now for tonight's 2H IPA brew session.

I use 3-6 bottles (even 2H works, might need 3rd day at first step). 1.5 cups of water + DME for first. I wait 2-3 days and swirl often. Second step is 3-4 cups water + DME. Another day or two depending on when I see krausen. Then 2-2.5 L of water + DME. Usually crash it after only 12-24 hrs as its very active at this point.

Think this is my 4th or 5th time doing it. Works every time

And if you order a 250 ml flask from Amazon or whatever, get a couple. If you're like me, one of them might have an unfortunate accident.

BigTerp said:

Thanks.

And great idea on the smaller flask. I have a 1L and 2L flask now. Never considered a smaller one for projects like this. Can't think of any place local to find one though. Any ideas?

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Search Amazon. Lots of science stuff there. Things like that make great "add on" items to boost an order to $35 for free shipping.

Thanks all!!

I ended up ordering a 3 pack of flasks from Amazon. 50ml, 150ml and 250ml. Should have gotten these a long time ago. They are going to come in handy.

And then of course I had to get that order up to $35 for free shipping. So I'll soon have a refractometer. Another tool I should have purchased awhile ago.

BigTerp said:

Thanks all!!

I ended up ordering a 3 pack of flasks from Amazon. 50ml, 150ml and 250ml. Should have gotten these a long time ago. They are going to come in handy.

And then of course I had to get that order up to $35 for free shipping. So I'll soon have a refractometer. Another tool I should have purchased awhile ago.

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Gear buying never ends... :cross:

Homercidal said:

Gear buying never ends... :cross:

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Ain't that the truth!!

solbes said:

Bells yeast is very good, and very versatile. I have a 3L starter in my fridge right now for tonight's 2H IPA brew session.

I use 3-6 bottles (even 2H works, might need 3rd day at first step). 1.5 cups of water + DME for first. I wait 2-3 days and swirl often. Second step is 3-4 cups water + DME. Another day or two depending on when I see krausen. Then 2-2.5 L of water + DME. Usually crash it after only 12-24 hrs as its very active at this point.

Think this is my 4th or 5th time doing it. Works every time

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Completely agreed.

I've made pale ales, IPAs, brown ales, and an American Wheat all with Bell's yeast. It can be very clean fermented lower (63F or so) and estery upwards of 70F, and I generally get 75-80% attenuation. Awesome yeast.

Going to get my dregs going this evening. Those of you with the 250ml (and smaller) flasks, what do you use over the top while fermenting? The foam stopper I use for my larger flasks obviously does not fit.

Spray some foil with starsan and that'll do it.

If you don't mind, and if you bottle, can you report back on whether you get a buttery aroma and/or flavor in the first couple weeks after bottling? It happens with mine, but goes away after week 4 or so. Beer seems fine then; but it drives me nuts as to why it happens!

Good luck!

Brew_G said:

If you don't mind, and if you bottle, can you report back on whether you get a buttery aroma and/or flavor in the first couple weeks after bottling? It happens with mine, but goes away after week 4 or so. Beer seems fine then; but it drives me nuts as to why it happens!

Good luck!

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Not a problem. I don't bottle though, just recently went to kegging. But I do plan to naturally carbonate at least one, if not both, keg of the 10 gallons I'm making. Should be combarible to bottling. I'll give an update when I get to that point. If i happen to forget ( ) revive this thread for me!!

BigTerp said:

Not a problem. I don't bottle though, just recently went to kegging. But I do plan to naturally carbonate at least one, if not both, keg of the 10 gallons I'm making. Should be combarible to bottling. I'll give an update when I get to that point. If i happen to forget ( ) revive this thread for me!!

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Excellent. Cheers, BigTerp!

I would say my harvesting was a success. Started off with the dregs from 4 bottles of Bell's Amber in 150ml of wort. Shook the flask whenever I walked by it for 2 days. Added that to a 1000ml starter on my stir plate and it took off. I measured 50ml of a solid yeast cake after only my second step!! Wasn't expecting that much. Decanted and whipped up a 2000ml starter and after only a few hours on the stir plate I had this. Based on yeastcalc I only need 1500ml for my batch this weekend. Going to save the other 500ml to add to my growing yeast bank.

Brew_G said:

If you don't mind, and if you bottle, can you report back on whether you get a buttery aroma and/or flavor in the first couple weeks after bottling? It happens with mine, but goes away after week 4 or so. Beer seems fine then; but it drives me nuts as to why it happens!

Good luck!

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I did not notice any buttery aroma/flavor at all from this beer. I Have the second keg of this in my kegerator now. It turned out great!! Just ordered more ingredients to brew another 10 gallons of this.

BigTerp said:

I did not notice any buttery aroma/flavor at all from this beer. I Have the second keg of this in my kegerator now. It turned out great!! Just ordered more ingredients to brew another 10 gallons of this.

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Cool. Thanks for reporting back!

Interestingly enough, the two beers I've recently fermented with Bell's yeast hasn't had nearly the same butteriness as the previous ones did. I wonder if it's because my most recent batches have been fermented with yeast I harvested from Oberon this summer, while the previous ones were yeast harvested from Two Hearted. Maybe the stress from being in Two Hearted caused that off flavor that eventually faded.

Not a problem.

Good point on harvesting from their Two Hearted. Could very well be the difference. Stressed yeast can lead to diacetyl, which would make sense in your case getting the buttery off flavors. I harvested mine from their Amber Ale. After the first small step, it took off like a rocket. Did yours propagate quickly or did it seem slow/sluggish?

Also curious what your procedure is for stepping up your slurry? To fast of a step up or to high of a wort OG could also further stress the yeast.

Glad to hear it has gotten better though with your last batch of yeast. What else do you ferment using the Bell's yeast? I'd like to give it a try in a few other beers as well.

Buttery flavor is an indication of diasityl. Probably need to let your beer sit on the yeast a little longer.

BigTerp said:

Not a problem.

Good point on harvesting from their Two Hearted. Could very well be the difference. Stressed yeast can lead to diacetyl, which would make sense in your case getting the buttery off flavors. I harvested mine from their Amber Ale. After the first small step, it took off like a rocket. Did yours propagate quickly or did it seem slow/sluggish?

Also curious what your procedure is for stepping up your slurry? To fast of a step up or to high of a wort OG could also further stress the yeast.

Glad to hear it has gotten better though with your last batch of yeast. What else do you ferment using the Bell's yeast? I'd like to give it a try in a few other beers as well.

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Now that I have two different "mother" yeasts to compare, I'm thinking the Two Hearted yeast got stressed and shat out some butter. Like I mentioned, though, it was fine when it came out of primary, but really showed up in the bottle, then went away completely after a four or five weeks bottled.

I let mine take its good old time for the first step. I used ~1.020 wort in a 1.5-pint Ball jar for that step. After a few days of intermittent swirling, I crashed it and dumped maybe 100mL of leftover wort/yeast slurry into 1.5L of ~1.035 in my Erlenmeyer flask, then popped that on the stir plate. At that point, it went ballistic!

I've been brewing for about 14 months now and I've used the Bell's yeast in two brown ales, three APAs, two IPAs (and a third coming up), and an American Wheat. It's hard to compare the more recent batches with the older ones, since my process has gotten much better as I've gotten more experience, but I really do like the results I've gotten from using this yeast. I've used a few others for various beers, and my best results beyond this have been with good ol' US-05.

Brewski_59 said:

Buttery flavor is an indication of diasityl. Probably need to let your beer sit on the yeast a little longer.

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It shouldn't be an issue with the amount of time on the yeast or with fermentation temps, as I ramp up to anywhere from 72-76F after about four or five days and let it sit there for at least a week. As mentioned above, I think it's more to do with the yeast having been stressed than anything else since my more recent results with the Oberon-harvested yeast have been better.

Brew_G said:

Now that I have two different "mother" yeasts to compare, I'm thinking the Two Hearted yeast got stressed and shat out some butter. Like I mentioned, though, it was fine when it came out of primary, but really showed up in the bottle, then went away completely after a four or five weeks bottled.

I let mine take its good old time for the first step. I used ~1.020 wort in a 1.5-pint Ball jar for that step. After a few days of intermittent swirling, I crashed it and dumped maybe 100mL of leftover wort/yeast slurry into 1.5L of ~1.035 in my Erlenmeyer flask, then popped that on the stir plate. At that point, it went ballistic!

I've been brewing for about 14 months now and I've used the Bell's yeast in two brown ales, three APAs, two IPAs (and a third coming up), and an American Wheat. It's hard to compare the more recent batches with the older ones, since my process has gotten much better as I've gotten more experience, but I really do like the results I've gotten from using this yeast. I've used a few others for various beers, and my best results beyond this have been with good ol' US-05.

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Sounds like a perfectly good process to me!!

How does the Bell's work out in your brown ale? I typically rotate batches between brown's, IPA's, APA's and an amber now and again. I try to have 2 different styles ready to go most of the time instead of say, for instance, 20 gallons of an IPA to drink before I can get into a brown or amber.

BigTerp said:

Sounds like a perfectly good process to me!!

How does the Bell's work out in your brown ale? I typically rotate batches between brown's, IPA's, APA's and an amber now and again. I try to have 2 different styles ready to go most of the time instead of say, for instance, 20 gallons of an IPA to drink before I can get into a brown or amber.

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My first brown was only the fourth or so batch that I made, and it was quite good. I took reasonable notes, but can't quite remember specifics of flavor and aroma. I did get really good marks from all my friends and family who drank it, and I remember being pretty sad when I drank the last one!

The most recent is absolutely fantastic. I started this thread to discuss it because I was concerned about the high FG. Turns out that, for whatever reason, it just didn't attenuate all that well. The sweetness and roastiness are phenomenal, and the bitterness is just enough not to let those qualities overwhelm the beer. I don't know how much the Bell's yeast plays into all of that, but it's so good that certainly couldn't have detracted from it!

It sound sliek you and I have similar tastes and setups. I generally have two or three beers available at any time, but I don't brew so much as to have a big backlog and not be able to brew a beer I'm in the mood for. Aside from the beers I listed above, I've brewed a steam beer (first one - don't recall the yeast), a stout (1084), blonde (Notty), APA (1272 - come to think of it, I've only brewed two APAs with Bell's), pumpkin ale (US-05), and another brown (US-05). I like the ease of dry yeast, but I like to geek out with propagating liquid yeast!

Cool. Thanks for the info!!

Yes, I like variety as well. I have a two tap kegerator and try to have 2 different styles going at any one time. Right now it's a Moose Drool clone and the Two Hearted Ale clone. Followed by an Electric APA which has been naturally carbing for 2-1/2 weeks, and a Caramel Amber which was brewed on 11/23. Both of those recipes are in the recipe section and the Caramel Amber is probably my favorite of any beer I brew. Definitely worth checking out if you like ambers. I typically brew 10 gallon batches every 2-3 weeks and that seems to work well for me. Doing 2 weeks primary and 2-3 weeks naturally carbing in the keg, I always seem to have a keg ready when one kicks.

I to like the ease of dry yeast, but I've recently been washing and saving yeast like S-05 and Notty, and other liquid yeast obviously. I started using http://www.yeastcalculator.com/ to dial in my pitching rates thinking/hoping it can help make me beer that much better. For the Bell's yeast I saved it will require a 3 step starter to get to a 2L starter of which I'll save 500ml and have the recommended cell density in the remaining 1.5L for my 11 gallon batch.

We don't get Bell's around here. My daughter brought me a 12 pack of Two Hearted when she game to visit for New Years. I want to try harvesting the yeast. So I have a question regarding the idea that yeast from higher ABV beer is not the best option. If one is making a starter/culture with a small amount of yeast then the vast majority of the yeast grown up are new. Assuming good a culturing process, why would they be any different that those originating from a lower ABV beer?

Don't bother. It's just 1056. They say its something else but I did a split batch with harvested Bells yeast and 1056 and it was exactly the same. I also pulled the yeast out of two hearted dregs and it worked fine. I could have used amber but I don't like amber and I do like two hearted and I drank it to get to the dregs.

There's probably a difference in the yeast stress to some degree but fresh two hearted vs old amber or who knows what. it's all slight changes.

If you want to give it a shot just use what ya got. I feel like the only reason to do this is to have an excuse to pound three or four beers in a sitting because you aren't drinking you're "harvesting yeast".

I harvested mine from Oberon. It is definitely a different yeast than 1056. Supposedly it is a derivative of 1272.

I agree there is a difference. I made a Two Hearted Ale clone with wlp001 (1056 equivalent)then harvested Bell's with noticable differences in the yeast character. Tropical fruit is much more prominent in the Bell's.

It's not anywhere close to 1056. Try fermenting 1056 and the Bells yeast in the 68f-72f range and see how they compare. Coming from a brewer that brews 80% of their batches with Chico I can vouch this is definitely not a derivative of Chico. It's pretty estery not clean at all at those temps. The yeast is really what drives the flavor in the two hearted ale. As a matter of fact I brought the two hearted ale clone, built up from Bells yeast, to a brewery (let both head brewers try it), and a LHBS (owned by a BJCP judge) owner/employees give it a taste. I did not tell them what this was brewed with or what it was. They pointed out the Centennial right away and then all three (two head brewers and LHBS owner) stated this was definitely Bells yeast. Chico is clean...Bells is not. In order to get the 2 hearted esters you have to ferment on the warmer side of things. As far as how it compares to 1272 I can't really answer that. I used that in my second ever brew and had no clue about temp control, starters, esters, phenols, etc so I can't give an honest answer there. I've actually heard rumors that Bells yeast is the Eccentric Ale yeast

https://inlandislandyeast.com/yeast-library/inis-006-Eccentric-Ale-yeast/

Never used that either so not sure. Safest bet is to build it up from the bottles