Blue Moon Clone

Yep...I didnt strain mine at all. It all settles out.

I just racked and bottled my 5 gallon batch last weekend. My question is with the oats...I used 1.2 lbs of quaker oats....steeped at 170 degrees for about 20 minutes. The starting point was the Northern Brewer Witbier kit, with Wyeast 3944 Belgian Wit yeast.

My question is with the trub...I had a full gallon of unusable material at the bottom of my fermenter. It was a viscous golden sludge that I assume was due to the oats, but not sure,..thats why I am asking. Any ideas?

I just brewed my clone (found McCormick's Valencia Orange Peel @ the grocery store! woot!) yesterday, and I have similar trub hanging about. It looks almost like yeast trub but a bit darker (and was there before ferment really started). Haven't seen much of that before so I assume it's due to the oats, but it's also my first beer with proper wheat malt.

ok so I made up my own to see if the flavor will come thru even more. what i did is for go the wheat this time and made a blonde ale with 1/2 oz of coriander,1 oz bitter and 2 oz sweet orange peel at 10 mins. It was 7lbs 2-row,1lb pale malt,1lb flaked oats and 1/4lb of vienna. I hit 78% to a gravity of 1.050. my next batch will be the way wayne has done it. that way ill keg both and give um a side by side. let me know what ya think.....on another note i am going to get the McCormick's Valencia Orange Peel for the next batch,but my question is- the orange peel has SODIUM SULFITE (ADDED AS A PRESERVATIVE) will that have any effect on the beer bein a preservative? would that explain the wierd trub the others r seein

O and should i still use whirlfloc or will it take the cloudy out of the beer

I would not add any clearing agents. I didnt pay much attention to the weird turb but maybe because i just assumed it was essential oils from the orange peel that was making a thin layer on top. If it looks kinda like a light colored oil slick (like the gulf of mexico only not brown - yes thats a personal shot at BP) then i would assum its orange oils, not worry about it. If someone wants to try it they can boil some water, add a small amount of orange peel and let it sit for 10 min then stick it in the fridge and see what is left that would be a good indication if it is undissolved orange peel

agezzi said:

O and should i still use whirlfloc or will it take the cloudy out of the beer

Click to expand...

Wits are supposed to be hazy, so no need for whirlfloc.

Cookiebaggs said:

I used Wayne1's percentages and used 1056 yeast instead of a belgian.

50.0% 10.25 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)
40.2% 8.25 lbs. Wheat Malt
9.8% 2.00 lbs. Flaked Oats

1.25 oz. Hallertauer Whole 19.3 IBU 75 min

2.00 Oz Corriander Seed 10 Min.(boil)
0.75 Oz Bitter Orange Peel 5 Min.(boil)

Click to expand...

I'm planning on using this same recipe with the except I will be adding .75 oz of sweet orange peel dried (5min) as well as bittering orange.

Anyone have any input on this idea?

My suggestion would be to also use about 4-8 oz of rice hulls in the mash tun. The flaked oats and wheat to have a tendency to set the mash. The rice hulls will allow the wort to smoothly flow during the lauter.

I would suggest using sweet orange peel. The actual amounts of each will need to be adjusted for your particular system and tastes. The amount I originally said was scaled down in direct proportion from the large batches I would make. When using spices, direct scaling is not always correct. Just use the stated amounts as a guideline. The ratio of coriander to orange peel is the most important. Brew it up, let it age and taste it. If it is not quite right, adjust the amount of spice and try again.

I am not aware of any formula for calculating amounts of spice. I am not aware of any test or rating of ingredients to determine how much flavor any particular type or brand will impart to beer. It is all hit or miss, try, try again

FWIW, I and the other commercial brewers always used pellet hops. They are easier to whirlpool out of the wort. They also produce a bit more bittering and flavor than whole leaf hops. Use what works with your gear. For me it has always been pellets.

The boil has always been 90 minutes. This is important to extract the most from the hops and to allow the wort to evaporate to get the proper extract. If possible use a full wort boil for 90 minutes. Strive for 17.5 IBU

Here is my final recipe for tomorrow brew session. Any last minute thoughts and changes you would recommend?

Blue Moon Clone

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 11.00 Wort Size (Gal): 11.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 18.06
Anticipated OG: 1.045 Plato: 11.24
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 17.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
51.4 9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
40.5 7.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Belgium 1.038 2
2.7 0.50 lbs. Rice Hull America 0.000 0
5.4 1.00 lbs. Wheat, Torrifed 1.036 1

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 3.90 9.6 90 min.
1.00 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 3.00 7.4 90 min.
2.00 oz. Coriander Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.
1.00 oz. Orange Peel Bitter Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.
0.75 oz. Orange Peel Sweet Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast US-05 SafAle American Dry Ale

Sampler,

I don't see any oats in there

Take out the torrified wheat and sub in flaked oats. You really want the smoothness from the oats.

I would prefer to see just the sweet orange peel, but you may want to brew up a couple of batches to see what you prefer for taste.

Good luck with the brew.

I just checked the with the wife and she says we have 2 boxes in the cubbard.



Lucky me

Now as for the orange peel, I'm going to try and make one last minute attempt to be pick up McCormicks Valencia Oranges in the morning. Since I'm making a 10 gal batch what are you recommendations?



Eeek... $17.99

Wish me luck

I only paid like $4 or $5 for the McCormicks. I used 1tsp and couldnt taste it at all. The 3 tsp of crushed corriander was perfect though. Next time Im going to try it with 3 tsp of Orange peel.

i wouldnt use bittering orange at all and just increase the sweet orange. I would also ad 2 lbs quick cook oats. not sure your mash but last time i mashed at 152 and wished i would have done 154. I am also been playing with the idea of 1/2 crystal 40 per 5 gal to add a sweet taste i get when i drink blue moon. Mine so far with out crystal and at 152 were good but a little bitter. I also zested 2 fresh oranges on the fine grater and i can taste the orange in the beer. However, the crispness of the beer is trying to hide it

i paid $4 for mine are you shopping at world market or something? Any run of the mill grocery store should have it for $4-5 I would add 3 tsp minimum. As several people have said you really can over do it on orange peel. Keep in mind blue moon has hald an orange slice added during serving. If you add too much orange peel you can just leave out the orange slice

I was looking around to see if i could find other blue moon recipes to see if anyone has nailed down any part of blue moon other than brewninja with the 3 tsp corriander and i found a recipe for bell's oberon that was interesting:

Brew365
All Grain Recipe - Bells Oberon ::: 1.050/1.013 (6 Gal)
Grain Bill
5 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
5 lbs. - Wheat Malt
1 lb. - Munich Malt (get the lighter stuff if you have a choice)
1/2 lb. - Crystal Malt (10L)


Hop Schedule (28 IBU)
1/2 oz - Northern Brewer (or Hallertau, your choice) (60 min.)
1/2 oz - Saaz (60 min.)
1/2 oz - Saaz (15 min.)
1/2 oz - Saaz (0 min. - flameout)


Yeast
Here are three choices, in order preference:
1. Culture Yeast from the Bell's Oberon bottle EARLY in the brewing season
2. Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast [fruitier than WLP001]
3. White Labs California Ale Yeast (WLP001) or Safale US-56


Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash at 150° to 152° for 60 min.
Sparge as usual
Boil for 60 minutes
Cool and ferment at 66° to 68°

Now i know oberon is not blue moon but to me the base taste is similar (minus the spices that make blue moon better). The reason this recipe interests me is that it includes both crystal and munich. I have noticed all my blue moon attempts come out very bright yellow and not orange like blue moon. They also are more bitter and as ninja said "not as sweet". I am no expert but wouldnt the crystal and munich (or some variation of these malt) add the orange color and added sweetness?

ekjohns,

The original Blue Moon I brewed was never yellow or orange, it was white. Unfiltered, hazy white. When I make it at home, BeerSmith tells me it comes out to 3.8 SRM which is VERY light.

If you are saying it is dry and bitter, to you, it seems you are fermenting out too far. Usually I end up with a final gravity of 1.012.

If you are ending below that, there are a few things you can do. Change the yeast. Look for a clean yeast that does not ferment quite as dry. You might want to try the Ringwood strain: Wyeast 1187 or White Labs WLP005. For dry yeast maybe Windsor. These yeasts are a bit more fruity and will not attenuate quite as much as the 1056 strain.

Other ways to add unfermentables to your wort is to mash higher. While I usually mash this at 154F you can try it at 158F. You can also add a pound of Cara-Pils or Cara-Foam to add a little body. To darken the color a bit, yes, you can add some Munich or Vienna. In fact, in one brewery I worked at, I used Malteries Franco-Belges Vienna malt as the base grain. It makes a wonderful brew.

These variations may help your system achieve what we were doing at SandLot Brewery at Coors Field many years ago.

Here she is...

Double post...

sampler how did it taste compared to the original? what recipe did you go with

I am thankful that this thread was started. There is an amazing amount of information here. I really enjoy Bluemoon and it is my wifes all time favorite and I am looking forward to attempting to brew with this new found information - Thank you Wayne.

My question - hopefully I did not miss this somewhere in the thread - can someone help me develop a extract version? I have not made the move to mini mash or AG yet but would like to attempt this extract, but using the info Wayne gave us with the types and percentages of grain.

Thank you

Blue Moon Clone

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 11.00 Wort Size (Gal): 11.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 18.06
Anticipated OG: 1.045 Plato: 11.24
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 17.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
51.4 9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
40.5 7.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Belgium 1.038 2
2.7 1.00 lbs. Rice Hull America

1 large box of quick oaks

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 3.90 9.6 90 min.
1.00 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 3.00 7.4 90 min.
2.00 oz. Coriander Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.
0.75 oz. Orange Peel Bitter Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.
1.00 oz. Orange Peel Sweet Pellet 0.00 0.0 5 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast US-05 SafAle

The recipe was straight forward and simple.

Tastes great but may be alittle light in the body.

Definitely will be brewing again. 2 thumbs up from my neighbors this weekend at the BBQ.

Mash temp?

as far as ectract i believe wheat extract is usually 40-60% wheat so i would just use 100% wheat extract to give you the desired O.G. and add due a mini mash with the oats.

ekjohns said:

Mash temp?

Click to expand...

I ended up at 153 and mashed for 90 minutes.

Wayne1 said:

I have mostly used single infusion with this recipe.

90 mins at 150-151 F

Try to hit around 1.050-1.055 OG

IBU should run between 16-17.5.

The coriander and orange peel are scaled down from the 10-15 bbl batches I used to make. Use the numbers as guidelines only. Maybe brew up a batch, taste it and adjust according to your taste. The rough ratio of ground, dried orange peel to ground, dried coriander should be about 1 to 3.

Click to expand...

Wayne

here you say 150-151 but later in the thread you mention 154 as your temp. Which do you prefer

MeanGreen said:

Wayne

here you say 150-151 but later in the thread you mention 154 as your temp. Which do you prefer

Click to expand...

It depends what yeast I am using. Using 1187, I mash low. Using 1056, I'll mash higher.

Do you prefer it sweeter or drier. Adjust the mash temps to your taste.

Better yet, brew it a few times with different mash temps and yeasts and tell us the results.

Wayne1 said:

It depends what yeast I am using. Using 1187, I mash low. Using 1056, I'll mash higher.

Do you prefer it sweeter or drier. Adjust the mash temps to your taste.

Better yet, brew it a few times with different mash temps and yeasts and tell us the results.

Click to expand...

Thanks Wayne

I was leaning towards the dry. I haven't conquered mash temps vs yeast yet. Just not enough brews and rebrews under my belt

But I definitely like the suggestion. Thanks again

Thanks Wayne for the recipe and tips.. love the brew and will be making it a regular

I have a question about this recipe and my results. This is my 3rd attempt at a BM clone and my 1st going all grain, so I will try and supply some details:

recipe:
5 lbs 2 row pale malt
4 lbs white wheat malt
1 lb rolled oats
1/2 rice hulls for lautering assistance

mash schedule:
protein rest 122 (my temp came out a little high at 123.3) 20 minutes
sacc rest at 154 (my temp was initially low at 147.6 and stayed there while I heated more water to get to 154 - so 10 minutes at 147.6, then 20 or so at 154
mash to at 170 for 10 minutes (hit 170.3)

collected 7.18 gallons with pre-boil gravity of 1.032
did 1.25 oz Hallertaur for 90 minute boil
added 3tsp (1/2 oz) coriander for 10 minutes
added 3tsp (1/2 oz) ground Valencia orange peel (McCormick)

cooled to pitching temps through counterflow chiller and pitched 1 pack of SafAle-05

measured OG at 1.046 and fermented primary for 3 weeks

FG measured at 1.010 and bottled 54 bottles with 1 Coopers carb drop per 12 oz bottle. I have used these for every batch I have brewed with good results.

Here is where the problem (might) lie...

After I bottled, the weather turned very hot here and after a day or so I put the 2 cases of bottle conditioning beer into a 50 degree refrigerator and left them for a week.

I tried one last night, admittedly a week early, but I have tried them before after a week of bottle conditioning and the beer was green but carbed, but this had almost ZERO carbonation....so

I pulled them from the refrigerator and I am hoping that I didn't kill the remaining yeast and that the warmer temperature will activate them so they can complete their carbing job...Will it? I hate to waste 5 gallons of what tasted like very good beer.

I think your beers will be fine. The yeast you used will work at 50F but very slowly.

There may be a bit of a different flavor due to the week at low temps, but it should not hurt the beer. You could have kept them at 50F, but it may have taken a few months for the yeast to ferment the sugar in the carb drop to create enough carbonation.

Just leave them be at room temp for a few weeks.

Thanks Wayne....worked like a charm.

I have to say that that is a fantastic recipe, and one I will make many more times. Since I followed your instructions and made it as you did once, now I can tweak it and know what affect it has on taste. Thanks again for all your input on this recipe - Bellyslide Belgian White.

I'm glad it turned out okay.

Now that you have brewed it once to the recipe, you can make it more your own with tweaks here and there. It won't be Blue Moon but it may be more to your particular taste.

Cheers

Wayne

Wayne,

Thanks for all of the help and info on this recipe. I have a couple of questions regarding the attempt I am going to make at this in the coming weekend. I have never used beersmith as far as calculating a recipe based off of percentages so can you take a look at my recipe and tell me what you think please. Also, I saw that someone else was doing a protein rest and wanted to check and see if that was done when you brewed it. I want to keep it as close as possible to how it was done at the brewery so I am just double checking that it was a single infusion. Also, how many pounds of rice hulls would you recommend with my recipe? I didn't include the spice addition in the recipe because I haven't decided yet. I am going to use the ground Valencia but haven't decided how much yet due to people saying McCormiks not giving much flavor. Maybe 2.5 tsp orange and 3 tsp coriander. I know the ratio isn't right but if the potency of the orange peel is off I figured I shouldn't add more corriander just because I am trying to make up for less potent orange peel.

Brewer: Charlie
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Wheat
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 14.04 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 50.00 %
8.25 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 39.29 %
2.25 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.71 %
2.50 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (90 min)Hops 18.1 IBU
2 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale

I'm going to mash at around 154 for 90 minutes and possibly use pacman yeast instead of american ale?
One more thing. I have only done a couple all grain and never used wheat. Do I mill the wheat just as I would the 2 row?

Thanks in advance.

The basic recipe you posted looks good. Personally, I would cut down on the fermentables a bit. Try to stay closer to the 1.050-1.053. Mash lower in the 150 F range. No need to ever use a protein rest with today's malts. Single infusion with a mash-out is how I have always brewed this.

I have never used Pacman yeast. From what I have read it ferments out quite dry. I don't think you would want that. Safale US-05 or California Ale yeast would be the safest bet.

If this is your first attempt at this recipe, don't try to change too many things. Brew it the way I suggested to see how it turns out. THEN make changes. Don't try to change yeast, mash temp, and ratio of spices for the first time brewing. It takes time to fine tune a recipe to your tastes. Don't go on what other people say is the way to do things (including me ) Try it first with the ratios I suggest and yeast and mash temps. Wait for the beer to be done. Then you can fine tune ONE aspect of the brew to get it closer to what you want. I know it is hard to wait. I know you have ideas you want to try, but you won't KNOW what item you changed had the biggest effect.

It may take you 4-5 times brewing this recipe to get it to where you like the flavors. Be patient.

I realize you cannot find the exact spices that were used, but try it at the amounts suggest first. Next brew you can then increase the amount to get to what YOU want from the flavors.

Half a pound of rice hulls should be plenty. Soak them in warm water before you add them to the mash. Otherwise they will absorb too much of the mash liquor and you may come up short in the kettle.

Malted wheat is milled along with the barley. No difference.

Thanks a ton Wayne! I buy my ingredients from Austin Homebrew and they either have brewers 2 row or Pale ale malt. The recipe calls for pale 2 row. I am not sure which I should use. Is the brewers 2 row "pale" or is the "pale ale" malt what I am looking for?
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/index.php?cPath=178_21_71_110

Also Wayne, when you say cut down on the fermentables what do you mean? Use less grain? Or mash lower? I thought when you mashed lower you got more fermentables...

crlova2 said:

Also Wayne, when you say cut down on the fermentables what do you mean? Use less grain? Or mash lower? I thought when you mashed lower you got more fermentables...

Click to expand...

He means to cut down your og a bit. Your recipe is 1.056, he suggests, 1.050-1.053. Just cut out some of your base grain.

Wildwest. What about the pale ale vs 2 row?

crlova2 said:

What about the pale ale vs 2 row?

Click to expand...

Pale Ale malt IS two row.

In some cases it is just a brand name difference vs generic term. Such as Pepsi vs cola.

For most North American barley, there is very little difference between what is called pale ale and two row. There are some maltsters that increase the modification and toast it a bit to try to replicate English malted barley.

As far as this recipe is concerned, it doesn't matter very much.

Wildwest is correct. I would suggest lowering the overall gravity. You can do that by reducing just the malted barley or reduce all the grains to achieve the 1.050 to 1.053 OG.