understanding a hop schedule

I searched around for a better understanding of a hop schedule and I found this https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7238&cat=all&ppuser=14092
(this does help me but I could use a little light shed on the subject)

so if I were to brew a beer for example a nut brown ale (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/nut-brown-partial-mash-221959/) the hop schedule shows

0.5 oz East Kent Goldings (aa 7.3) 60 min
0.5 oz EKG (7.3) 20 min
0.5 oz EKG (7.3) 2 min

Does this mean I add the kent goldings 60 minutes into the boil or for 60 minutes during the boil? and why would we add the EKG twice? I also seen many recipes that say 0 minutes does this mean add at flameout?

thankyou very much guys I cant wait to get this boil rolling

Long and short of it is time in boil brings different characteristics out of the hops.

Long time = Bitter
Short time = Flavor
Really short time = Aroma

yes 0 = flame out

60 min means to boil for 60 minutes. The 20 minute EKG would be for flavor, the 2 minute would be for aroma. You are correct on the 0 minute addition. That does mean to add at flameout.

(guess I'm slow. no replies... I post and am the 2nd to reply... must be old age catching up to me )

Texas_Brew said:

i searched around for a better understanding of a hop schedule i found this https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7238&cat=all&ppuser=14092

so if i were to brew a beer for example a nut brown ale (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/nut-brown-partial-mash-221959/) the hop schedule shows

0.5 oz East Kent Goldings (aa 7.3) 60 min
0.5 oz EKG (7.3) 20 min
0.5 oz EKG (7.3) 2 min

does this mean i add the kent goldings 60 minutes into the boil or for 60 minutes during the boil? and why would we add the EKG twice? i also seen many recipes that say 0 minutes does this mean add at flameout?

thankyou very much guys i cant wait to get this ball rolling

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When you bring the wort to a boil and add the first hops (the EKG at 60 minutes in this case), you set a timer for 60 minutes. Then, you add the other hops with that much time left in the boil. So, when the timer hits "20 minutes" you add the second addition. With 2 minutes left, you add the last hops. For 0 minute hops, you add them at flame out, also called "knock out".

You add the hops three different times in this recipe, because the different times cause different effects.

At 60 minutes, you are boiling the hops to get all of the bittering potential out of them. Hops oils only isomerize when the wort is boiling, and it takes a while. So, at 60 minutes, those hops are meant to give you the bitterness that beer is known for. Not just a bitter flavor, but to balance the sweetness of the malt.

The 20 minute additions are "flavor" hops. You will get a bit of bittering out of them, but not nearly as much as a longer boil will. This will leave a good bit of hops flavor in the beer, and it is responsible for the actual hops flavor notes in the beer.

The late addition (2 minutes in this case) is primarily for hops aroma. It's not a long enough boil to really give you the flavor notes, although you'll get some, like the 20 minute addition. You will get almost no bitterness out of the hops at 2 minutes since the boil is so short the oils can't isomerize. So, that addition is called the "aroma" addition.

Some beer styles have only bittering, while others have all three like in your example. It really depends on the beer style you're making.

so I suppose I would apply the 2 minute aroma hops first.thin the 20 minute EKG for the flavor and shortly after or at the same time start the bittering hops at 60 minutes?

Texas_Brew said:

so I suppose I would apply the 2 minute aroma hops first.thin the 20 minute EKG for the flavor and shortly after or at the same time start the bittering hops at 60 minutes?

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I'm not sure what you're saying.

Texas_Brew said:

so I suppose I would apply the 2 minute aroma hops first.thin the 20 minute EKG for the flavor and shortly after or at the same time start the bittering hops at 60 minutes?

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NO it is backwards from that.

You put the bittering hops in first as soon as the wort starts boiling. Then start your timer. 40 minutes later, add the flavor hops (20 min EKG). Then after another 18 minutes put in the aroma hops (2 min EKG). Then another 2 minutes (0 min) turn off the heat and start chilling your wort.

Texas_Brew said:

so I suppose I would apply the 2 minute aroma hops first.thin the 20 minute EKG for the flavor and shortly after or at the same time start the bittering hops at 60 minutes?

Click to expand...

If I understand this, you have it backwards. In this case, assuming a 60 minute boil, you would put the bittering hops in at the start of the boil, add the flavor hops after 40 minutes of the boil (20 minutes left in the boil), add the aroma hops after 58 minutes of the boil (2 minutes left in the boil). Hopefully that made sense. I'm only half awake this morning

Yooper said:

When you bring the wort to a boil and add the first hops (the EKG at 60 minutes in this case), you set a timer for 60 minutes. Then, you add the other hops with that much time left in the boil. So, when the timer hits "20 minutes" you add the second addition. With 2 minutes left, you add the last hops. For 0 minute hops, you add them at flame out, also called "knock out".

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This is from my post above. I tried to be clear, but I must not have been.

You boil for a total of 60 minutes. You set the timer when you add the first hops (the 60 minute hops) and watch the timer go back to 0. At 20 minutes, you add the 20 minute hops. At two minutes, you add the 2 minute hops. When the timer hits 0, it's done. Turn off the flame.

oh ok I get it now thanks guys!

oh I see when I was typing my second post yooper made his first post. which explained throughly (its my day off I'm lazy lol)

Texas_Brew said:

oh ok I get it now thanks guys!

oh I see when I was typing my second post yooper made his first post. which explained throughly (its my day off I'm lazy lol)

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Glad we could help. But I'm not a "his"!

A question for you, Yooper.

Concerning the difference between Flame Out and Dry Hopping. How much of a difference in flavor/aroma is there between the two? For example, the recipe I used asked for Styrian Goldings and Fuggles at 'flame out', which I misinterpreted (read: I made this brew while tired, bad move) as 'throw in the carboy after the wort is cooled'.

What kind of difference can I expect?

Valcarde said:

A question for you, Yooper.

Concerning the difference between Flame Out and Dry Hopping. How much of a difference in flavor/aroma is there between the two? For example, the recipe I used asked for Styrian Goldings and Fuggles at 'flame out', which I misinterpreted (read: I made this brew while tired, bad move) as 'throw in the carboy after the wort is cooled'.

What kind of difference can I expect?

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Well, the flame out additions ARE different than dryhopping. Dryhopping is done after fermentation, because the active fermentation causes tons of co2 to be produced and blown off, and blowing off all of those lovely hops aromas. That's why it's done later.

The flame out additions are not really blown off by fermentation, because the oils are already "in" the wort, if that makes sense. Adding hops after the wort is cooled, but before fermentation is over, is not going to give you the effects of either. I'd say that you'll "lose" the hops aroma that you would have had from adding them at flame out, before chilling.

Just to restate, the times given in a recipe are always time from the end of the boil. A 60min addition means 60 mins from the end of the boil.
I know this was explained, just another way to say it.

Yooper said:

Well, the flame out additions ARE different than dryhopping. Dryhopping is done after fermentation, because the active fermentation causes tons of co2 to be produced and blown off, and blowing off all of those lovely hops aromas. That's why it's done later.

The flame out additions are not really blown off by fermentation, because the oils are already "in" the wort, if that makes sense. Adding hops after the wort is cooled, but before fermentation is over, is not going to give you the effects of either. I'd say that you'll "lose" the hops aroma that you would have had from adding them at flame out, before chilling.

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So, in other words, wasted hops.

Bluh.

How come I don't see many schedules with hops being added at like the 40 or 30 min mark?