Pitched then aerated. Uh-oh?

I am very new to this HB world but am very excited to have found this great website. I've learned a lot in a short amount of time (seemingly) which is why I've decided to ask a question. (Knowledge inspires knowledge, you know.) This is batch#2 for me. Batch #1 is currently bottle conditioning. Both are being made from Mountmellick Dry Irish Stout Kits. The first batch threw a lot of blow off. I only added dark malted extract (2lbs.).It made a bit of a mess but at least I knew the yeast were working. This time with batch#2 , seeking a higher alcohol content, I added 3lbs. of dark malted extract and have , also, added 1.5 lbs. of Central Texas honey. My concern regards the manual aerating I did after pitching the dry yeast (which I did not do with the first batch). Essentially, I rocked the carboy with the dry yeast in it for approximately 3 to 4 minutes, about 2-3 inches "this way and that way." Based on what I've read thus far there shoudn't be a large need for alarm. My OG was at 1.060 and I have seen krausen and continue to see bubbling in the primary, now at 72 hours later. My fear is that I damaged enough of the yeast that it may warrant another fermenting session to get the FG that I am aiming for, which is between 1.014 to 1.010.
Should I be concerned?
If my FG is not where I want it to be , how do I go about getting it lower?
I thank all of you in advance for your sincere and enthusiastic knowledge!!!!

I think this may help, by the way. The yeast was pitched with the wort at 65 degrees F.
Thanks!

I'm a newb but I'm pretty sure aerating right after you pitch is not going to damage the yeast. I've read that some people do this and some don't and there's not much difference. You should be fine.

Nreg said:

My OG was at 1.060 and I have seen krausen and continue to see bubbling in the primary, now at 72 hours later. My fear is that I damaged enough of the yeast that it may warrant another fermenting session to get the FG that I am aiming for, which is between 1.014 to 1.010.
Should I be concerned?

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RDWHAHB - three days in and a long way to go. My Amber Ale - which is not nearly as big a beer as your stout took slightly more than 2.5 weeks to fully ferment out. The yeasties are doing their job...you'll just need to relax and check back in a couple weeks +

its fine. aerating multiple times during the first few days of fermentation (so after pitching yeast) is better, especially for higher gravity brews.

beninan said:

its fine. aerating multiple times during the first few days of fermentation (so after pitching yeast) is better, especially for higher gravity brews.

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Erm...the more you aerate once the yeast is pitched and has begun fermenting the greater the chance of you helping to oxidize the beer. It's best to leave it alone after the initial aeration.

Incredible! This HB forum is comforting and quite responsive. Thanks for the info, everyone!

Smokeater233 said:

Erm...the more you aerate once the yeast is pitched and has begun fermenting the greater the chance of you helping to oxidize the beer. It's best to leave it alone after the initial aeration.

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david_42 said:

I receintly attended a talk with two presenters from one of the big yeast companies. They were both homebrewers and one was focused on yeast growth. He made a series of experiments with aeration, ranging from shaking the carboy (he was about 6'4" and young enough to do it) & aquarium pumps, up to in-stream oxygenation with counter-flow coolers. He then ran wort samples through his company's test gear. His basic conclusion was you can't get enough oxygen for optimum growth with a single aeration using air. Air gives you about 1/3 the dissolved O2 that using straight O2 would, so he recommends using a pump & filter and aerating for 10 minutes an hour for the first six hours.

I've tried it and I've gotten very good ferments. The next step will be to auotmate by getting a timer and a two-hole bung, one for the air trap and one for the air line.

Yesterday I was reading an article on super high gravity brewing. They recommended daily aeration for the first week!

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i still think its fine. during the first few days of fermentation is ok, but after fermentation has slowed and conditioning is taking place, then no aeration should be done

It will be fine. It should ferment down to at least the high 1.010's. Aerating can be down right after pitching the yeast and its really just a matter of preference. Doing that later in the day or the next day is when you start to worry about oxidation.

i barerly did any aeration as far as i could tell yesterday and yet my airlock is bubbling once a second. i know the feeling worrying about aeration but you will just have to wait and see. i know it's hard

I routinely pitch then aerate using a drill-wand... never had an issue.

I aerate after pitching. Most times the foam left after aerating becomes the krausen.

yeasties are tough little critters. You didn't harm them at all. I use a stir plate for my starters and the get spun around like crazy and continue to reproduce and get healthy. No worries it almost always makes beer

It'll b fine. Should have shaken the crap out of it though. If u use a bucket u can pitch the yeast give a few minutes to hydrate and then use a sanitized paint mixer on a drill for a few minutes. U will not hurt the yeast and they need as much o2 as u can get in by stirring. Btw. The newb move is not making a starter of some sort. Even a little boiled n cooled dme in a jar that u swirl around for a day or2 is better than pitching dry into the wort. Your beer will b exponentially better after u start doing this. Remember the yeast and it's handling are the most important factors in making good beer. Don't worry though the beer will b fine.

You shouldn't make starters with dry yeast, you're leaving the yeast less ready to ferment the batch of beer. Dry yeast packs usually contain plenty of yeast for average homebrew batches, if you need more just use more. With liquid yeast you have much, much less yeast to start with so you need a starter.

From the Mr Malty 14 essential questions about yeast starters:

Another case where you generally don’t want to make a starter is with dry yeast. It is usually cheaper and easier to just buy more dry yeast than it would be to make a starter large enough for most dry yeast packs. Many experts suggest that placing dry yeasts in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into their product. For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not make a starter.

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Some dry yeast mfrs. say you don't need to aerate when using dry but it won't hurt if you do. You always need to aerate when using liquid yeast.

From Danstar's FAQ:

I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

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And here's something on the orig question in the OP:

Some British brewers "drop" their fermenting wort up to a day after adding yeast. How effective is this for adding oxygen? And how late can wort be oxygenated?

RESPONSE:

The optimum time to add oxygen to the fermentation is about 12 - 24 hours into the fermentation. Active Dry Beer Yeast (does) and re-pitched yeast (usually) have enough lipids for two to three generations. It is at that time the budding yeast can most efficiently use the oxygen to continue to bud and also produce enough lipids to protect itself against the higher levels of alcohol.

This is especially true with high gravity brewing. In wine fermentation it is not uncommon to add oxygen to a stuck fermentation near the end of the fermentation when there has been inadequate oxygen added at the beginning. The yeast will not grow but will metabolize the oxygen to produce more lipids that will revive the elasticity or fluidity of the cell wall and allow the transport of the alcohol out of the cell to a safe lever and then begin to transport sugar into the cell again.

Dr. Clayton Cone

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SpanishCastleAle said:

You shouldn't make starters with dry yeast, you're leaving the yeast less ready to ferment the batch of beer. Dry yeast packs usually contain plenty of yeast for average homebrew batches, if you need more just use more. With liquid yeast you have much, much less yeast to start with so you need a starter.

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Sorry, but that's at a minimum misleading, if not completely incorrect. A pitchable tube of liquid yeast has a much higher cell count than a standard dry packet. You can tell it just by looking - even after accounting for the difference in hydration. And you can certainly tell it by lag time.

tunoffun said:

Sorry, but that's at a minimum misleading, if not completely incorrect. A pitchable tube of liquid yeast has a much higher cell count than a standard dry packet. You can tell it just by looking - even after accounting for the difference in hydration. And you can certainly tell it by lag time.

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Per Danstar:

For Nottingham yeast the average cell count under the microscope is around 20 to 30 billion cells per gram dry yeast.

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An Activator pack or vial is around 100 billion cells. So an 11.5g packet (typical) of dry yeast has almost 3x that of a vial/Activator pack.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Per Danstar:

An Activator pack or vial is around 100 billion cells. So an 11.5g packet (typical) of dry yeast has almost 3x that of a vial/Activator pack.

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My apologies. I was wrong

tunoffun said:

My apologies. I was wrong

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No worries, I just regurgitated stuff from other websites.

Some people shake/stir after pitching, some do not. Either way you'll be fine. Generally speaking aerated wort is a good thing when pitching yeast. It's only after the fermentation has completed that you do not want to aerate. Aerated/oxidized beer leads to bad taste.

Also a good idea to stir after you pour wort into fermentation bucket and top off with water. Stir before taking hydro reading. Then pitch and stir some more. DWHAHB!!!

IMO stir away!