JOHN51277
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Was sitting here smokin a cigar thinking.... Has anyone ever boiled wort in a microwave? Call me crazy!
Microwaved wort?
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nostalgia
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JOHN51277
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What about doing a 1 gallon boil volume and say a 3/4 gallon batch size? Not sayin I would do this, but, Im sure it can be done. And maybe even do just a 20 minute boil.
I might have to mess around with something like this one day. Hell, it would be a great marketing ploy! Sell it in a glass jug with an airlock taped to the side and all you do is put it in the microwave, cool to room temp, and thenadd supplied yeast, wait and then bottle!
Kinda gives another meaning to Micro-Brew!
I might have to mess around with something like this one day. Hell, it would be a great marketing ploy! Sell it in a glass jug with an airlock taped to the side and all you do is put it in the microwave, cool to room temp, and thenadd supplied yeast, wait and then bottle!
Kinda gives another meaning to Micro-Brew!
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JOHN51277
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Damn, I want a OneDerBrew now! That is cool as hell! Strange, yet brilliant!
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You may have just discovered the secret to BMC!
SankePankey
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http://cgi.ebay.com/OneDerBrew-HOME...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ceecf8f28
It's not mine, I just saw it.
It's not mine, I just saw it.
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
I posted about it in the "closed system pressurized fermentation" thread cause that is how it carbonates.
DoctorDuvel
Well-Known Member
Since microwaves change the molecular structure of food (a good reason to not use them), I would think this might be a problem for the yeast and the overall product. Plus, radiated beer just doesn't sound appetizing..to me at least...
GregR
Well-Known Member
where did you hear that crap? microwaves are just a source of heat energy like gas or electricity.
all types of thermal energy change to the chemical/molecular composition of food. so if you aren't using your microwave for fear of altering the food molecules you'd better stop cooking all of your food by any method of heating.
and I'm not sure what you mean by radiated beer. do you honestly believe microwaves cause radioactive radiation? harmful ionizing radiation occurs only in wave frequency above the visible spectrum and microwaves fall far below the visible spectrum, below even infrared.
DoctorDuvel
Well-Known Member
it's not "just a source of heat"...cooking food in a microwave is a violent, very high frequency process which has very different effects than conventional stove-top cooking...it destroys health benefits of food to the point of having negative/degenerative effects in the body, etc, etc...look into it instead being so quick to call it crap...
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
There are about 2 dozen countries that ban micros so I have heard. Just like eating GMO crops or hormonal milk. Nooo problem. Jury's out. I still use one though
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
All conspiracy theories aside, your biggest setback is volume. Unless you have a industrial microwave, I'd bet you can max it out just above 1 gallon. You also won't be able to control the vigor of the boil. The closed space won't allow vapor to vent properly, so you are likely to end up with some DMS too. You are also faced with finding a huge plastic or glass vessel to put the wort in. Finally, unless you use fermcap, boil overs will be impossible to regulate.
I don't have any bias toward or against microwaves, those are just some good solid brewing reasons not to use it for wort. Making starters on the other hand, I bet it would be great. Or for boiling/sanitizing stuff like oak cubes.
I'd also like to state that I've never tried it, but then again, I've never had the desire to brew 1 gallon of beer.
I don't have any bias toward or against microwaves, those are just some good solid brewing reasons not to use it for wort. Making starters on the other hand, I bet it would be great. Or for boiling/sanitizing stuff like oak cubes.
I'd also like to state that I've never tried it, but then again, I've never had the desire to brew 1 gallon of beer.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
The only downside is that the salsbury steak will be burnt by the time the mashed potatoes are hot enough to eat...
fatmoose
Well-Known Member
Almost feel like I'm being trolled here but I have a hard time letting these types of things pass.
Microwaves work by exciting water molecules by passing electro-magnetic radiation (oooooo, scary word) through substances at the 2.4 Ghz frequency. This causes the water molecules to exude heat energy and cook the food in the microwave. Microwaves do not "alter" food at the molecular level and there is no substantive scientific evidence to back up any of the claims bandied about on the interwebs. This article does a good job of summarizing most of the claims that exist out there today:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0813/is_3_32/ai_n13664949/
For genuine scientific answers to microwave related questions you can check out this site run by a physicist from the University of Virginia, he posts lots of tidbits on this topic amongst others: www.howeverythingworks.org
Microwaves work by exciting water molecules by passing electro-magnetic radiation (oooooo, scary word) through substances at the 2.4 Ghz frequency. This causes the water molecules to exude heat energy and cook the food in the microwave. Microwaves do not "alter" food at the molecular level and there is no substantive scientific evidence to back up any of the claims bandied about on the interwebs. This article does a good job of summarizing most of the claims that exist out there today:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0813/is_3_32/ai_n13664949/
For genuine scientific answers to microwave related questions you can check out this site run by a physicist from the University of Virginia, he posts lots of tidbits on this topic amongst others: www.howeverythingworks.org
bdleedahl
Well-Known Member
+1... yes and for those who don't know electromagnetic radiation is just light, yes the same stuff that comes out of your light bulbs, just at a much longer (and therefore holding less energy) wavelenth.
GregR
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
in fact there are even some studies that suggest microwaves degrade the nutritional value of food less than standard cooking (all cooking can degrade nutritional value by hurting some vitamins in the food) because the SHORTER cooking time required to cook the food.
GregR
Well-Known Member
I did look in to it. many a times.
conpewter
Well-Known Member
I have used the microwave for starters before, works quite well.
Mischief_Brewing
Well-Known Member
+1
I always used the micro for boiling the water for the priming sugar. 3 minutes in the micro, add sugar and stir, cover and let cool while you sanitize everything...
fatmoose
Well-Known Member
As I was browsing that physicist's site I found this article on the potential hazard of boiling water in the microwave: http://www.howeverythingworks.org/page1.php?QNum=1576. I'd not consider this a call to alarm over using the microwave for this purpose but it's interesting reading and probably good information to keep in mind. Of course I've boiled water in the microwave for numerous purposes without anything more than a mild scalding due to my carelessness.
GregR
Well-Known Member
super heating is a very hard phenomenon to create on accident. you need basically pure distilled water with almost no impurities to super heat it. the sugars dissolved in the water will provide more than ample surfaces for boiling to occur.
carnevoodoo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, yeah. Lack of nucleation points in water make boiling it dangerous in a microwave. You know, if you stick ANYTHING in that glass while it is boiling, it'll give it an adequate nucleation point. Even a toothpick would prevent this from happening. If you're careful around boiling liquids, you don't have to worry.
fatmoose
Well-Known Member
That's good to know, thanks!
GregR
Well-Known Member
myth busters actually had a whole segment about this. you can probably find it on youtube if you're interested.
fatmoose
Well-Known Member
Isn't Kari the surfer guy ?
Not that there's anything wrong with it...
I kid...but for a year I thought her name was Tori and my buddy just let me tell people "Tori is the hot one"
Not that there's anything wrong with it...
I kid...but for a year I thought her name was Tori and my buddy just let me tell people "Tori is the hot one"
DoctorDuvel
Well-Known Member
i take my health seriously, so i'd rather be safe than sorry...there is enough info and research on the subject to have steered me away from using microwaves...much of the info i've come across is contained in this rather comprehensive article...just a small snippet, discussing what an independent, non-profit group called Powerwatch has found:
* The microwaving of milk and grains converted some of the amino acids into carcinogenic substances.
* Microwaving prepared meats caused the formation of the cancer-causing agents d-Nitrosodienthanolamines.
* Thawing frozen fruits by microwave converted their glucoside and galactoside fractions into carcinogenic substances.
* Extremely short exposure of raw, cooked or frozen vegetables converted their plant alkaloids into carcinogens.
* Carcinogenic free radicals were formed in microwaved plants—especially root vegetables.
* Structural degradation leading to decreased food value was found to be 60 to 90 percent overall for all foods tested, with significant decreases in bioavailability of B complex vitamins, vitamins C and E, essential minerals, and lipotropics (substances that prevent abnormal accumulation of fat).
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/18/microwave-hazards.aspx
* The microwaving of milk and grains converted some of the amino acids into carcinogenic substances.
* Microwaving prepared meats caused the formation of the cancer-causing agents d-Nitrosodienthanolamines.
* Thawing frozen fruits by microwave converted their glucoside and galactoside fractions into carcinogenic substances.
* Extremely short exposure of raw, cooked or frozen vegetables converted their plant alkaloids into carcinogens.
* Carcinogenic free radicals were formed in microwaved plants—especially root vegetables.
* Structural degradation leading to decreased food value was found to be 60 to 90 percent overall for all foods tested, with significant decreases in bioavailability of B complex vitamins, vitamins C and E, essential minerals, and lipotropics (substances that prevent abnormal accumulation of fat).
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/18/microwave-hazards.aspx
fatmoose
Well-Known Member
Powerwatch appears to be a conglomeration of like minded whack jobs who fancy themselves to be involved with UK policy making. From the Powerwatch web site referring to microwaves: http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/rf/microwaves.asp
"Microwaves from the magnetron within the oven bombard the food, causing the molecules to rotate at the same frequency millions of times a second. "
Not so much rotation as vibration as I understand it, but ok, I'm with them here
"All this agitation creates molecular friction, which heats up the food. "
Pretty much what I understand
"Of all natural substances, the oxygen of water molecules reacts most sensitively."
Umm, this seems off to me, but I don't have a 100% solid understanding of the inner workings, so pass
"This is how microwave cooking heat is generated -- friction from this violence in water molecules."
Again, pretty much what I understand
"Structures of molecules are torn apart, molecules are forcefully deformed, and thus become impaired in quality."
Eh, what? We seem to have taken a quantum leap in logic at some point. Molecules being torn apart, really?
I pretty much gave up after that.
This article looks to be a rehash of all the tripe that has circulated the internet for years regarding microwaves. The article I linked to previously does a good job of deconstructing these.
This is coming across as rather bullying and I apologize if I hurt feelings but there simply is no good science behind any of this and it frustrates me. This will be my last post on the topic.
DoctorDuvel
Well-Known Member
still waiting for that official government study to come out, damning microwaves? 
the article cites real scientific studies...unfortunately, when the info isn't coming from certain "channels" some tend not to even consider it...
anyways...back to beer
the article cites real scientific studies...unfortunately, when the info isn't coming from certain "channels" some tend not to even consider it...
anyways...back to beer
nostalgia
Well-Known Member
For the record, when I make tea at work in a glass cup with regular NJ tap water (and who knows what's in that mess
), it superheats every time I forget to put a straw in the glass.When I drop my tea filter into the still-looking water, it instantly and violently boils.
Since I know it's coming, it's fun to show co-workers, but it does illustrate that you can easily have it happen in your home kitchen.
-Joe
Interesting but I'd never try it.
SumnerH
Well-Known Member
My sister's exploded water in the microwave before. I have no idea if it was super heating or some other phenomenon, but it was a regular coffee mug full of tap water and it just went pow! and was all over the inside of the microwave, without having visibly boiled first.
Of course, she's also managed to light bread on fire in a microwave somehow, so maybe she's just talented...
conpewter
Well-Known Member
I don't use DME for starters anymore, so usually I just defrost the starter in the microwave and put it in the flask, then if that fits in your microwave you can boil like that. Mine currently doesn't, so I stick it on the stove.
My starter medium comes from the last batch or even one a while back. I save off the wort that is left over in tubing and in the hop trub, doesn't need to be sanitary since I boil it again later. I put it in a gallon freezer bag and freeze it.
My starter medium comes from the last batch or even one a while back. I save off the wort that is left over in tubing and in the hop trub, doesn't need to be sanitary since I boil it again later. I put it in a gallon freezer bag and freeze it.
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JOHN51277
Well-Known Member
I still want to make microwaved beer! Just for the hell of it. Even if some whack jobs think it will cause my pee to glow!
shushikiary
Well-Known Member
The absorption spectrum of most materials is VERY low at microwave frequencies. This is why WIFI signals pass through almost everything (they are around 2.4ghz normally), the exception being metals that make nice faraday cages.
When you change the electron orbits of any element by putting it into a bound state, such as H2O rather than just H or O you significantly change the absorption characteristics of the material. Water just happens to have a HANDY absorption of microwave frequencies right were its nice to absorb the energy and turn it into heat.
The spin of the atom is not significantly effected by E&M absorption, therefore their statement about spinning is FALSE. The vibration is moving back and fourth in 3 dimensions (think jump rope). The magnetic spin isnt effected either.
Sense pretty much all the other materials in food have an absorption at 2.4ghz ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less than water it's not really possible for them to be heated to the point of breaking by microwaves. What tends to happen is you cooked the water inside to the point that the heat transfer inside the object grabs enough heat to "burn" parts of it and cause the chemical structure to change. The same thing happens when you leave it on the stove for too long. Correlation is not causation.
There arnt large amounts of people doing studies on this in the scientific community because it's about the same as wasting money trying to figure out if power lines increase the chance of cancer. The first basic steps in understanding how the idea works and how absorption works, along with some basic math to look at the voltages created at distance, etc, makes it sure beyond a reasonable doubt that power lines dont cause cancer, and microwaves dont cook your food in an unhealthy way unless you do something stupid like burn it (same as burning it on the stove).
The whole argument is on the level of tin foil hats to protect against radio waves and drives me up the wall. (My E&M professor (zoya popovic at CU boulder) for transmission lab, E&M 1 and 2, once fielded a call about power lines causing cancer and one about microwaves damaging food, so in class we went through the basic math to look at the plausibility of the idea.... it's really not plausible).
When you change the electron orbits of any element by putting it into a bound state, such as H2O rather than just H or O you significantly change the absorption characteristics of the material. Water just happens to have a HANDY absorption of microwave frequencies right were its nice to absorb the energy and turn it into heat.
The spin of the atom is not significantly effected by E&M absorption, therefore their statement about spinning is FALSE. The vibration is moving back and fourth in 3 dimensions (think jump rope). The magnetic spin isnt effected either.
Sense pretty much all the other materials in food have an absorption at 2.4ghz ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less than water it's not really possible for them to be heated to the point of breaking by microwaves. What tends to happen is you cooked the water inside to the point that the heat transfer inside the object grabs enough heat to "burn" parts of it and cause the chemical structure to change. The same thing happens when you leave it on the stove for too long. Correlation is not causation.
There arnt large amounts of people doing studies on this in the scientific community because it's about the same as wasting money trying to figure out if power lines increase the chance of cancer. The first basic steps in understanding how the idea works and how absorption works, along with some basic math to look at the voltages created at distance, etc, makes it sure beyond a reasonable doubt that power lines dont cause cancer, and microwaves dont cook your food in an unhealthy way unless you do something stupid like burn it (same as burning it on the stove).
The whole argument is on the level of tin foil hats to protect against radio waves and drives me up the wall. (My E&M professor (zoya popovic at CU boulder) for transmission lab, E&M 1 and 2, once fielded a call about power lines causing cancer and one about microwaves damaging food, so in class we went through the basic math to look at the plausibility of the idea.... it's really not plausible).
